Hull repair, paint & trailer adjustment questions

[timo14]

I've got a couple of issues going on that I'm going to try to deal with all at one time. They are...
1. Move boat forward 9" on trailer.
2. Move axles forward to lighten up the tounge weight (currently 800 lb).
3. Repair crushed lifting strake
4. Paint bottom of boat.

So, I have some questions for the experts...

1. Is there any "rule of thumb" for how far up to move my axles? I was going to move the boat up first, re-weigh, then move the axles up. Anyone have any photo's of their trailer set-up for an Overnighter to give me an idea of where i should start?

2. Are my rollers set-up correctly? I have 2 problems with the trailer. First, the rollers hit hard on the lifting strakes, which has caused a void on the port side to crush (see photo). Second, in a little wind or current, sometimes the rollers on one side of the boat get "stuck" on the wrong side of the strake which makes the boat come up really crooked. Should i spread my rollers out to get the rollers on both sides on the outsides of the strakes? I realize that this will lower the boat on the trailer and may get real close to the fenders. Again, anyone have any photo's of their set-up?

3. I'm going to grind out the void in the strake & re-glass. You can see in the photo where i did a temporary repair the firs time it crushed. I did this in a Home Depot parking lot... not the best conditions to say the least. This isn't really a question, just wanted to show the crushed strake, and wanted to explain myself for the aweful looking repair.

4. Bottom paint. What should i do? Looks like the original owner didn't do any prep. On a majority of the hull where the paint has vanished, you can see a shine on the hull. There are also what appear to be blisters in the gel-coat in certain areas, but i'm not sure if that is what they actually are. I've pressure washed most of the hull which didn't remove much paint. What should be my paint procedure. I've been doing some research, but it's left me with more questions than answers. Here is what I planned on doing...
Strip with Interstrip 299E, scrape & sand, apply Primocon, apply InterProtect (not sure if i need this or not), then apply bottom paint. So my questions here are... Does this sequence sound reasonable? And what bottom paint should i use? The boat is on the trailer 99% of the time, used in salt and brackish water. I do leave it in the salt-water for a couple of weeks once or twice each summer.

Here's the pix...

Pretty ugly huh? As usual, any advice is appreciated!

 

[BobP]

How did the hull get damaged at the strakes, by the trailer?

Once the boat is properly positioned (front to rear) with the transom not beyond the last support too far (others can comment), then you set the bow stand, then set the axles to get the right tongue weight %.

The two axles have a limited range of movement, so if you are out of movement range and the tongue with is not where you want it, the boat will have to be respositioned again.

I'd say take the trailer out from under the boat and work on the hull on a three point blocking setup, especially if the hull is to be painted, nightmare painting it as it sits.

 

[timo14]

The strake was damaged by the roller as the boat came up on the trailer. You can see the "tracks" of the roller in the first photo.

I know I'm going to have problems with the axles. The trailer cross-member is not too far ahead of the front axle, so I'm going to have to remove the axles completely to get around it.

I'm definately going to put the boat on stands. I'm fortunate enough to have a pair of forklifts at my disposal. I'm thinking I'll lift the transom off the trailer & block it up, then move to the bow and lift it with a strap, pull the trailer out, then lower the bow onto a block. I actually have a crane too, so i might strap the whole boat and lift it all at once. Downfall there is that I'd have to do all the work outside, and I'd need another set of hands. Life is tough.

 

[BobP]

I also had a dual axle Loadrite for my 20 footer, but had leaf springs, all I had to do was loosen the U bolts as I recall. Not familiar with your torsion axles.

The hull should have never touched anything but roller, I don't know why the hull hit the roller(s) support(s) unless the roller(s)s were/are shot ,

A normal roller cannot damage a (Grady) hull, IMHO.

I recall from my roller setup the rear ones were further spaced apart on the other side of that strake, and the hull was lower to the fenders (therefore). But memory may be off.

It did take a few times to get it right. And I had the black rollers which near to the bow would leave skid marks, that's it.

It may be easier to do the setup at a ramp, so you can take on and off the boat to try the fit.

 

[timo14]

It was definately the roller that crushed the hull. I actually witnessed it the 2nd time. The trailer is only 3 years old and I keep it in tip-top shape. It was just the weight of the boat pushing down on that roller at the exact spot the void was. Torsions are no different from the leafs, but I'll have to remove the U-bolt completely to get around the cross member. You can sort of see it in the last 2 photos... notice that the fron U is about 8" away from the cross-member bolt that sticks through the frame.

 

[gw204]

It was just the weight of the boat pushing down on that roller at the exact spot the void was.

That's not the fault of your trailer, it's poor layup.

Where does the last roller sit in relation to the transom? I like them to be within a few inches and that will determine the location of your bow stop.

I woudn't more the roller support assemblies at all. Just loosen the u-bolts the control the width between the rollers and squeeze them together about an inch on each side.

 

[timo14]

It was just the weight of the boat pushing down on that roller at the exact spot the void was.

That's not the fault of your trailer, it's poor layup.

Exactly! There is a ramp I use during striper season(s) that is shallow. The boat kinda cantelevers on the back rollers of the trailer when it first comes out of the water. Most of the boat weight rests on the rear set of rollers all at once.

Where does the last roller sit in relation to the transom? I like them to be within a few inches and that will determine the location of your bow stop.

The boat needs to move up 9" or so.

I woudn't more the roller support assemblies at all. Just loosen the u-bolts the control the width between the rollers and squeeze them together about an inch on each side.

Huh? You lost me there. Here is a photo of what I was thinking. I'd loosen the U's that attache the main roller support beam (2x4 tube) to the cross member. My aluminum roller arms are one piece, I can adjust both rollers left or right at the same time, but i cant move them independantly, which is what i think you were saying. I'd slide the support beam up the cross member till the outer roller is past the strake. The boat will lower because the angle of the hull is steeper than the angle of the cross member. I dont think it will hit the fender though. The other thing to note is that the rollers at the keel will move 6" up the hill too. Don't know if that's a problem or not. Whaddya think?

 

[BobP]

Be careful spreading out the forward set of rollers, the forward keel will be lower and may clip the rear end of the center frame member while launching or retrieving.

Yes, you are moving the rollers properly where you circled.

Was the hull damage at a point the roller would normally rest on? Or just pass over? If it just passes it, the hull has to be defective at that point, I would say.

Are your roller bracket pivot points lubed so all rollers pick up equal weight, if one is jammed, it will be overloaded, or overload others.

 

[BobP]

As far as painting, goes, I would say a good sanding is enough, followed by washing, use a pole type pad sheet sander for ease, wear face mask, keep kids away. Then paint it.

Others will say to soda blast, three coats of barrier, three coats of ... etc.

depends how deep your pockets are.

I presume you are not mooring boat.

If you want to make the hull like new w/o any bottom paint, in that case, don't follow my advise.
You can make it like new, for deeper pockets still!

 

[G8RDave]

I know next to nothing about roller trailers, but is it possible to get narrower rollers for the front so that they are further inside of the lifting strakes? That might help with your centering problem. I know my forward center bunks on my trailer center me perfectly everytime. I would be wary of putting the roller outside of the strake. It doesn't look like there is much of a clearance there and the strake might hit roller support.

 

[BobP]

My memory is starting to come back!

Perhaps the front set should be closer together, not spread more.

 

[Bob's Cay]

If you really want to move the rollers outward is there any way to block / shim under the brackets to raise them? Or have new brackets fabricated that are taller.

 

[timo14]

It's actually the rear rollers that crushed the strake. I was thinking about moving ALL of the rollers. I was a little concerned about the strake hitting the aluminum roller support bar, but I do have the clearance (I measured). I'm more worried about having the rollers moved away from the keel and into a weak spot between the keel and the stringer. I'm assuming that the strake gives the hull enough structural strength since it's not at a stringer either.

Bob... Shallow pockets. New baby coming in late June. I want to try the stripper just cause there are several coats of paint and I think i can increase efficiency if i get rid of some of the real rough spots. I'm assuming i'll need the primer since I wont get all the old paint off and I dont know what type it is. I'm looking for a relatively cheap paint. Its more for looks (and efficiency) than keeping the critters off. Also want something that's fairly tough. I don't necessarily want something that's going to wear off... boat is trailered almost all the time. I moore it on the weekends and for one or two weeks at a time in the summer.

Tim

 

[timo14]

If you really want to move the rollers outward is there any way to block / shim under the brackets to raise them? Or have new brackets fabricated that are taller.

Good idea. Not sure I would neet to, I think i have enough clearance. But if not, I'll probably get taller brackets.

 

[BobP]

Try the gel stripper then. The hull doesn't appear to have a heavy buidup from the photos. So it should go well. I can't recommend a paint for your use.

The main (longitudinal) stringers straddle the gas tank, so they are right under the gas tank cover seam, you can measure and mark the hull.

There is a another stringer outboard of the main as well.

You have plenty of rollers on that trailer, I don't see a problem where it sits.

Still more of my (20 footer) memory is coming back, both front and rear roller sets may have been closer together to what you have in photo.
This is not what I initially replied.

Brian GW204 had the same boat, he may recall.

Need to experiment.

 

[gerrys]

Timo:
If you're not keeping the boat in the water and plan on launching each time from the trailer, I wouldn't do anything at all about bottom paint...yet. Fix your strakes and by all means get the rollers adjusted. Over the new repair areas, use a barrier coat as if preparing for bottom paint.

When your pockets can afford it, strip the bottom, sand, clean, solvent prep, then barrier coat to the paint specs, then 2 coats of bottom paint if you so desire.

If you do a makeshift bottom job now without appropriate prep work, you're in for a nightmare later.

 

[timo14]

On page 2 already??? It must be winter. :wink:

The photos of the hull are of the really good areas. There is quite a bit of paint on the hull. Some spots I'd say are a good 1/8" thick. This is one of those things that I've been talking about doing for a long time. Since I'm going to pull it off the trailer to make the adjustments... kinda makes sense to do it now. I'm tired of looking at the bottom too, especially since the rest of the boat is in pretty good shape for it'sage. I'm also going to glass over all the holes in the transom from all the crap that has been screwed in back there... speedo wheels, transducers, etc... Gotta cover that up with fresh paint.

I can afford to do it right, but "right" seems to have various meanings from just slapping some paint on it up to soda blasting, barrier coats, 27 coats of epoxy... I just want a decent paint job that looks good and will give me a couple of years of service before i have to re-paint.

I found a thread on THT about the trailer. Someone had an almost exact scenario with a late model Mako. Their strake was crushed many times along its length. Everyone there said to move the rollers in, but the dealer moved them out saying it was "more stable on the trailer." That makes complete sense to me... its just wierd that everyone told him to move them in, but didn't give reasons.

Tim

 

[gw204]

I woudn't more the roller support assemblies at all. Just loosen the u-bolts the control the width between the rollers and squeeze them together about an inch on each side.

Huh? You lost me there. Here is a photo of what I was thinking. I'd loosen the U's that attache the main roller support beam (2x4 tube) to the cross member. My aluminum roller arms are one piece, I can adjust both rollers left or right at the same time, but i cant move them independantly, which is what i think you were saying. I'd slide the support beam up the cross member till the outer roller is past the strake. The boat will lower because the angle of the hull is steeper than the angle of the cross member. I dont think it will hit the fender though. The other thing to note is that the rollers at the keel will move 6" up the hill too. Don't know if that's a problem or not. Whaddya think?

Those arms might be stuck/frozen together, but they aren't one piece. They can be moved indepedently. Loosen those little u-bolts enough and you'll see.

Here's some shots of my old 204 on the trailer. It's hard to see the rollers though...

 

[timo14]

Those arms might be stuck/frozen together, but they aren't one piece. They can be moved indepedently. Loosen those little u-bolts enough and you'll see.

You're right... partially. The front sets of rollers are adjustable, but they're maxed out. The rear rollers (where the aluminum beam is straight, not bent) are one piece. You can kinda see them here...

I think what I'm going to do is slide everything up the cross member till i get the wheels on the outsides of the strakes. Drop the boat back on and if it's too close to the fenders, I still have one more set of holes that will allow me to move the cross members up. You can see that in the photo too.

I'm still a little worried about it, but i guess there is only one way to find out.

Also, if any of my fellow Overnighter guys have photos of their boats on the trailer, I'd appreciate it. I dont have a good feel as to where to put the axles relative to the hull. I know it's trial and error, but less trials sounds good to me. :wink:

 

[cdwood]

When I first got my trailer I moved rollers out to lower the boat and increase stability, has worked as expected. Will get you some pics this weekend.