Increasing prop pitch on Triple F350s on an Exp 360

FastZilla

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Just bought an `08 Exp 360 (Trip 350s). During my 5 hr test drive I noticed it hit 6k rpm very easily. I'd like a bit more economy at cruise and was thinking going up to the 19" or even the 21" - vs the stock 17" pitch. I'm looking to buy some spare props (which would be at least 2) so I have the opportunity to buy all 3 and increase the pitch. I'm considering the 21" pitch but was wondering if anyone had any insight to this before I took the plunge. I know the 19" would be fine but if I can go 21" I'd like to. However at $1000/pitch change between 3 props I don't want to take a chance if I don't have to.

Thanks!
 

TBone

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8) Congrats on the new boat! 8)

A new 08' 360 with trip 350s, and your worried about economy? :lol:

Have your dealer lend you test props and experiment to find the

PERFORMANCE you desire then decide on those.

:lol: :lol: economy :lol: :lol:
 

seasick

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Sometimes I wonder about these posts. 1,050 horse and you are concerned about fuel economy. Geeez.
That config was tested at 6,00 rpm with a speed of 44 mph. That's cranking for a boat that large and it will eat 60 gal per hour. Normal cruising would be about 30 mph at about 4500 revs. At that speed, you will burn 33 GPH so if you slow down from WOT to 4500, you burn 27 GPH less. That's about $130 per hour at the fuel rates in my neck of the woods. Do that for 7 hours and you paid for the new props.
I wish I had those problems:)
 

ocnslr

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First of all, major congratulations on the new 360. It's a truly beautiful boat.

Secondly, be aware of Yamaha's specified break-in and don't spend too much time at WOT before you're supposed to.

As to the props, you should certainly be able to swing 19" wheels. The rule of thumb is 150-200RPM change for each INCH change in pitch, so the 19's will drop you 300-400 RPM - assuming you stay with the same prop design.

You might want to look at some nice four-blade wheels, like the PowerTech OFS series (not even sure they make them for the F350).

Most folks don't consider the effect on minimum speed by increases in pitch. May not be a factor for you, but certainly can be for folks who need to troll S-L-O-W for some species.

Best wishes with the big Grady.

Brian
 

Grog

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They put 17" props on a trip 360? I guess the only reasoning is if one engine goes down you can still plane with 2. 700 HP should still get her up with the 19's but get a loaner set and see.

Another possibility is GW doesn't want that hull going over 50 MPH?

I don't want to bust your stones but checking the 1050 HP box then wondering about economy jsut dosn't sound right. Trip 250's get you almost 1 MPG, the twin 350's are just a tad behind, the trip 350's get you almost 10 MPH more but at the expense of fuel economy. Fully loaded you're close to 20,000 pounds and 13' wide, it's a lot to push that around.

Nice boat good luck with her.
 

FastZilla

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I think you have all misunderstood me to some edegree. I planned on a boat that would cruise around 30-32 GPH. I'll be in the Gulf so reall rough water is not too common - don't need props that pitched for climbing mountains. The posted test speeds w/the 350s from both Yamaha, GW and all the mags have the boat just under 55mph @ WOT - so I don't think they were worried about a boat going over 50.

Here's the reason I'm considering new props - under power (from stop or from any cruise speed under 3400 rpm) the props will cavitate under moderate acceleration - not a WOT slam. Also this boat tends to fall off plane around 3100-3200 rpm - however the engines sound unloaded - there is just not enough thrust to keep it out of the water. I could care less about top speed. I want the boat to plane out and hold plane around 3k rpm and do it around 30-32gph. Not the plane at 3400 and do it at 34-36gph. I purposly bought that extra HP for the reason of torque - same reason boats have diesel engines and swing huge props. The slower a prop turns the more efficient it is. Also underutilizing your engines power in this manor is an unnessary drain on your wallet.

During my test run I trimmed the center engine completely out of the water and ran on the 2 outers. The boat now planed at 4400 rpm and was doing it at 44 GPH - glad I didn't buy the trip 250s. I had no speedo during the test run so I had no clue how fast I was going. We have around 3 months off each year (due to my job) and will be living on the boat during that time going all over everywhere. There is an old saying, "Loaf a big engine or work the crap out of a small one". I'll loaf a big one - it's more economicay and then in the event you need the power, you have it.

I'll see if I can get some loaner/test props. Problem is the F350's - they are too new and no one seems to have any "spare props" laying around. If I save so much as 1 GPH with the increased props it will only take 250 hrs to pay for the props - again I want to carry spare props anyway, I have to carry at least 2 (reg & counter rotation), so it's really only a matter of the extra $350 - so the amount is not that different.

Just looking for some objective advice on the pitch change - I think the real story is that I'll probably be the first 360 w/Trip F350s to do this. If I were only a weekend or occaisional user of this boat I would not care. However with our intended use it will make a hugh diference.

Maybe someday I'll ship the boat to Astoria and literally need to climb my wan over the bar to the Pacific - then I'll put the 17's on and have fun!
 

Grog

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If you're cavatating with just a bump, you need different props. Have you tried going back to your Grady dealer and show them what the boat's doing? They're mostly very good with customer satisfaction.

If that doesn't work, find a prop guy and say you're going to buy a set of props but you want to be satisfied and may need to test a set or two. If you drop the $ for 3 props with that condition they should work with you.
 

gradyfish22

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Not sure if a bigger prop diameter is possible, but that might solve your dilemma better, more pitch may give you more hole shot and better efficiency, but I'm not sure that on your boat it will keep you on plane better. More3 pitch may also make it cavitate more, sounds like more or an issue with transom mount height to me, I'd check that is it all the way down or are they mounted a few bolts up?, check that and maybe play with that to keep them in the water better. Also, trim the tabs down if you want to maintain plane at a slower speed. To properly check your load on your props you need to have full fuel and gear and your full crew to turn up to max rpm's. You should ideally be at or just under by maybe 200rpm's to be propped correctly. Anything below that will be propped wrong also, but if you adjust your pitch and increase it and add a full load of gear, people and fuel it will fall flat on its face when you do and will be bad for the engines and will run horrible. Look into other brand props, many have had better luck with Merc props as well in similar sizes to gain efficiency and speed, but that may also hinder your ability to stay on plane at a lower rpm. Merc also has a program where if you plan to buy from them they will loan you props until you find the correct ones and purchase them for a set down payment/security deposit. You may need a different diameter or pitch prop, but the cavitation of the props during acceleration makes me think your engines are mounted or running to high for the boat, look into that to optomize that first before playing with props and spending that money. Don't skip the step, go about the process with all the steps to get the best results. Enjoy the new boat, she sounds awesome!! Lets see some picks!!
 

pablor

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Hi

I have a 360 with trip 250s and have noticed that the center engine cavitates only with the Teleflex controls in Synch mode. it seems like the Teleflex controls tend to give the center engine more rpms once in a while. Withouth the synch mode, it rides solid. I thought I had a cavitation issue until I stopped using the synch mode.

on my boat fully loaded and bottom painted with full curtains I can get barely 0.8 mpg at about 32mph. I have not been able to burn at the published 1.0 or .9 mpg mark. good news is that it stays at .8 all the way to 34-36 mph. Definetely less than expected. I cannot see the reason why you would put 1050 horsepower on this boat if you will not be pushing 50mph which absolutely is cost prohibitive regardless of budget on a long fishing day.
My 2c
 

FastZilla

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Outstanding info Gradyfish22!!! Thx!

I haven't searched everywhere yet but for now it appears that Yamaha is the only one making props for the F350's. They only offer pitches from 17"-25" in 2" incriments. I agree with the diameter over the pitch, but it appears I only have pitch to chose from.

Pablo, This was a stock boat on the lot (hints the great deal I got). I didn't have a choice in the engines however if I did I would have got the 350s anyhow. I do not have performance figures but I'll have them memorized before too long. I may be overly optimistic but I'm betting the 350's cruise better mpg's than the 250's - mainly because of the increased speed relative to fuel burn - there is also a ton more torque coming out of those V8s which equates to more push with less fuel (BSFC). Are the 350s necessary - absolutely not. I did not by the 350s for top end or drag racing but for economy. Once you're done laughing I sincerely think the cruise mpg's will be better than the 250's. But who knows. It's really crappy that you can't trust the performance specs the mfg publishes!

Yamaha states:
Trip F350s cruise 3500rpm - 28.2mph - 31.7gph - 0.89mpg
No posted performance data for the trip F250s

GW states:
Trip F250s cruise 4500rpm - 31.1mph - 33.3gph - 0.93mpg

The margin of difference is pretty neglible:
+2.9mph 250s
+1.6gph 250s
+0.04mpg 250s

Your spinning the F350s 1k rpm less and have a whole bunch more power in reserve should you ever need it (ie: an engine fails in foul weather and you have mountains of water to climb over on the way in, towing a Bayliner back to shore :roll: , etc.).

I'll definately let you know. I'll be bottom painted and pretty much loaded all the time. So it should be a "real" set of numbers.
 

pablor

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let me know how your burn goes... I am definetely interested in your numbers...