Lewmar 700FF Windlass Frozen?

[ROBERTH]

Ok folks, this is a new one for me.

Is it possible that the windlass can freeze up due to the cold weather?

I was working on the anchor connections last week and had no issues lowering/raising and testing the retrieval. Temps were cold, but above freezing as far as I recall.

Now, I go out and try to drop anchor (on trailer) to do some more work on the shackle(another story) and I can hear the solenoid clicking, but the windlass does not move in either direction. I have pulled the chain out of the gypsy and still no movement.

I tried the manual wrench method on the left side access for manual turning and it would not move. Actually, it did move a very tiny bit, but so little, was hard to say it moved......

The windlass is only about 4 years old and is in great shape, so not sure what it could be......

 

[ROBERTH]

Update: I placed a couple of heat lamps on the windlass to warm it up and finally got it to turn with the wrench. But still clicking solenoids and no movement. Checked breaker and it was not tripped.

Will give it some more heat time and see what happens. Boat is covered and it is high and dry, even after our snow last night.

 

[wspitler]

Lewmar has a 5 year warranty. Had my Profish 1000 replaced at 4 years. I'd recommend taking it to the local Lewmar dealer and they can get it fixed or replaced. Mine locked up due to a bad bearing and possible water intrusion. The case seals are not the best. They recommend lubricating it internally annually. I'm doing that now and it keeps it running smoothly.

 

[Halfhitch]

When you said the solenoid is just "clicking" it makes me, first of all, to think of low voltage to the solenoid, either the control voltage or the primary voltage. Even though your batteries are topped up, corroded or loose connections can show good voltage on a multimeter but under load cannot carry enough amperage. Try using heavy jumper wires to jump around the solenoid to eliminate a bad solenoid and it's connections. If the winch runs on the jumper and not the solenoid you have found the culprit. No doubt you already know all this, not trying to be preachy here. Just describing how I would start the investigation. Good luck with it and let us know the outcome.

 

[DennisG01]

Assuming no water got into it, the motor shouldn't "freeze up" from the cold. However, cold weather can, and does, affect the flow of electricity. As wires and electrical components get colder, the electrons don't flow as fast. Most of you know this from trying to start a car on a really cold day - you may notice that the engine spins a little slower for the first few turns. If you combine cold weather with dirty/loose/old electrical connections... add to that a battery in cold weather (which looses some of it's "power") - these can absolutely cause the issues you're seeing.

Just a side note... a solenoid can "click", but not actually send enough amperage through (it can send 12V, but not enough amps) for the motor to work. This happens as solenoids get older and their internal connections can get deteriorated.

 

[ROBERTH]

Update: I checked connections and get a full 13+ volts out of solenoid, so have strong batteries which we just load tested so know there is no issue there. It is hooked up to 2 group 31 AGM's. I have oversized tinned marine wires to the solenoid from the batteries and from there is direct connect to windlass. All connections are very clean and even shiny. Very protected where I have it mounted. I am a stickler for making my electrical of the best quality possible... :mrgreen:

I jumped the solenoid to windlass motor and still no luck!

Thinking moisture inside and something frozen in this cold weather.

Will get time this weekend to remove side plate and see condition. Not going to get above freezing all weekend unfortunately, so might be next week before I can tell if it is a cold temp issue or not.

Thanks for the feedback guys! Now let's hope for a thaw coming soon!

 

[ROBERTH]

Ok, could not stand it any longer not knowing what is going on. Removed the side plate! WOW! Did not expect to see this!

Not sure what all that is in the bottom, but seems some is ice mixed with grease. This just after about 4 years new? Guess I will be removing and cleaning up and then see if I can get it to do anything. The motor gear does turn manually.

 

[Fishtales]

Yup. Typical. Give it a good cleaning and degreasing and then relube it all up. Ensure you have good motion and then test in place before mounting. Should be ok, but you will likely have to do this a lot more in the future and likely replace at some point. Par for the course with a lower end windlass.

 

[wspitler]

Obviously a bad seal. Call or email Lewmar and ask them to cover it under the 5 year warranty. I had to take mine to a dealer to verify failure, but I received a new replacement in about a week.

 

[Halfhitch]

Yup. Typical. Give it a good cleaning and degreasing and then relube it all up. Ensure you have good motion and then test in place before mounting. Should be ok, but you will likely have to do this a lot more in the future and likely replace at some point. Par for the course with a lower end windlass.

I agree with Fishtales, I would use a good sealant like HondaBond 4 or equivalent when mating up those cases. I don't know if that windlass has a vented case but you might check about its' location if there is one and either protct it from moisture or plug it and provide one that is more protected, (like a fitting with a long rubber tube.)

 

[ROBERTH]

Hi folks, I didn't know Lemwar was a low end windlass. They look so nice and seem to be very heavy duty.

Anyhow, got it off the boat now and on the bench. Letting it though a bit and scraped out/chiseled out the huge chunks of ice/grease in the bottom. Removed the gear that is linking to motor and then connected up to the battery....nothing! Seems the motor is gone. I will let it sit overnight in the garage and continue to thaw, but doubt there is any water in the motor, just the casing. I can turn the motor shaft easily enough, so this makes me think motor is gone for sure.

I found my receipt finally after a couple of days looking and as typical, purchase date was in Dec. 2012, so just quit 1 week over the warranty period.
I have sent an email to Lewmar tech support with the story and see what they can tell me.

Worst case, if I can order parts somewhere, a new motor looks very easy to replace. No idea the cost though!

 

[Halfhitch]

Could it be just a problem with the brushes not making contact with the armature??? Just thinking of that moisture maybe gumming up the brush guides.

 

[ROBERTH]

Very possible, but this windlass has not really been used that much, so should not have worn brushes. Don't think it looks like easily accessible to inside motor. I don' t think I want to crack the case and check it. Looks like I can get a new motor for about $130.00 so if can't get help from Lewmar, will go this route.

The case had a neoprene type seal and it was good all the way around except for where I tore it at the bottom during removal where it was frozen to the case with moisture.
So not sure how so much moisture got inside.

Now that the windlass has been in garage over a day thawing out, I tried to connect motor to battery again, and nothing.

 

[glacierbaze]

That picture makes me want to order a new gasket, tale the cover off, and grease the hell out of mine, if not too late.

 

[ROBERTH]

Yes, do it! Check out the video on Youtube that is a 3 part series. Explains the weak spots and needed servicing in this side plate. Had I only known! Well, second guessing myself now and bummed. Can't get the center gear out and from the videos/discussions found that this is a problem area where the bearing gets siezed up, but mine will turn, just will not pull out, even with the half washer in alignment.

Then, I found out with some slight prying, that the motor housing mount arms are corroded through from electrolysis.

Unless Lewmar comes back with something promising, I think I am out a new windlass now! When I get a new one, I will open it up and lube it well with the Amsoil Axle grease that has shown to work wonders on the clutch/gypsy. Will also put a coating on all the parts like the motor, etc.

Added the Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwsS4_MsZxI

 

[ROBERTH]

Well, after cleaning up the parts, decided to go for a new windlass and start from scratch. Based upon the electrolysis damage/rusted gears, seized bearings, etc.

Will take a very serious approach to the new one. Will open it up, ensure it is well lubricated. Will use the Amsoil grease I have seen make huge differences in and crack the case at least once a year and inspect for any corrosion or damage, even pull the gears and clean/lube the bearings. A new one not seized up should come apart very easily. Will also make sure the motor housing has a coating of protection.

Per the 3 part video, he was right. The middle gear was the one seized up and took quite a bit effort to get it removed. It actually pulled out the bearing from the housing to get it out. Then I was able to take apart and drive the bearing off the race. All of the metals were black due to the electrolysis affects on Stainless.

For you guys out there with a windlass, it is winter time and perfect for you to check yours before they go too far.

I am also going to add foot switches for more convenience. Looking around and finding some comments/reviews, seems the Lewmar foot switches are not the best.
I found some Maxwell foot switches I really like due to they have the button you can push with your finger, or you can raise the cover and use your foot. Also, they sound like they are made better for water intrusion.

Any experiences with foot switches out there?

 

[wspitler]

I have the original Lewmar foot switches from 2007. I keep them lubed with silicone and they still look fine and work well.

 

[ROBERTH]

Thanks, is that silicone grease and where do yo u apply it?

 

[wspitler]

You can use silicone grease on the rubber covering the foot switch or I just use food grade silicone spray that doesn't contain any petroleum based ingredients and made for rubber.