First time Grady owner so hopefully someone here can give me some advice. I have a 2018 Freedom 235 with a Lewmar V700 windlass. I have only used the windlass a few times this season and noticed the motor seemed to be struggling a bit compared to prior years, but still working. I thought maybe it needed some lubrication, but today when retrieving the line under normal conditions and no stress the windlass tripped the main breaker, which was pretty frustrating. I thought the isolated breaker for the windlass at the helm would trip first, but it didn’t and the main breaker at the battery panel tripped and shut down everything including the NAV and radio. Do I possibly have a bad isolator breaker or is normal to trip the main if the motor is overly stressed. Battery was fully charged showing 14.2. Thanks.
Lewmar Windlass tripping main breaker
- Thread starter Jimlevel9
- Start date
I am wondering why they wired the winlass through a breaker other than the oem lewmar breaker. I have mine coming straight off the battery switch and straight to the lewmar breaker. Then the wires go to the solenoid. Then to the motor.
Thanks. I definitely have the OEM lewmar breaker wired to the windlass motor and it works in isolation, but just not clear on why the main breaker would trip. Thought I was missing something.
Maybe trace the wire from the lewmar breaker to the battery to see if the main breaker is hooked up to the circuit. If it is, bypass the main. Might not be a bad idea to replace the lewmar breaker for safety. Not like you won’t use it if you end up replacing the unit.
Btw. Mine is wires with #6 wire. The longer the run, the thicker the wire requirement.too thin of wire could cause bad performance at the machine and overheat of the wire.
Here is the lewmar 700 manual. I have the same one.
In theory, you want the windlass breaker to trip before the main accessory breaker. That generally means that the main breaker would be rated higher than the windlass breaker. If you have a 40a main and a 40A windlass breaker, it's anybody's guess on which one will trip first.
But back to the issue.
Assuming things worked OK in the past and taking into consideration that now you noticed that the windlass seems sluggish, you have one of two possible problems.
The windlass motor is bad or there is now excessive voltage drop in the circuit feeding the windlass. Than also includes the negative cable wiring.
When the voltage is lower than spec'd, a motor under load will draw more current, sometimes a lot more. That can trip breakers as it should. How do we find out what is going on?
Look at connections for obvious corrosion issues.
Do a voltage test as close to the windlass as practical. We need to do three measurements. Using a known good ground as a reference( like a direct connection to the battery), measure the voltage at to the windlass. The output of the windlass breaker is a decent spot to measure the voltagefor now.
The first measurement is the standing battery voltage. Measure and make a note. (By the way, there is no way that your battery resting voltage is 14.2 volts! If you have a charger shut it off or get a new voltmeter) A decently charged lead acid battery will read maybe 12.6 volts.
OK now remove the anchor load from the windlass. That may require dropping the anchor or disconnecting it. Activate the windlass motor and measure the voltage again. It will be less than the resting voltage. Note that number.
Now put a load on the windlass. Activate it and measure the voltage while under load(hauling but not stalled). That voltage should by code be no more than 10% lower. If it is a lot lower but the small load second voltage wasn't, you have a wiring issue. If the voltage at the windlass is too low both under load and not, the windlass motor may be bad. I say 'maybe' because you can have a bad negative wiring issue and you will have the same problems.
To check the negative, first find the negative wire from the windlass where it connects at the helm probably on a buss bar and see if it is corroded.
Testing the negative circuit is different than the +12 volts. If you want to check, connect a voltmeter to the negative terminal on the battery that feeds the accessories and the other end of the voltmeter on the helm negative/ground buss bar.
Run the windlass under reasonable load and measure that voltage. It should be pretty low, and probably no more than about a half a volt. If higher, you have a problem in the negative wiring.
My tests may sound complicated but really aren't once you understand the logic.
But back to the issue.
Assuming things worked OK in the past and taking into consideration that now you noticed that the windlass seems sluggish, you have one of two possible problems.
The windlass motor is bad or there is now excessive voltage drop in the circuit feeding the windlass. Than also includes the negative cable wiring.
When the voltage is lower than spec'd, a motor under load will draw more current, sometimes a lot more. That can trip breakers as it should. How do we find out what is going on?
Look at connections for obvious corrosion issues.
Do a voltage test as close to the windlass as practical. We need to do three measurements. Using a known good ground as a reference( like a direct connection to the battery), measure the voltage at to the windlass. The output of the windlass breaker is a decent spot to measure the voltagefor now.
The first measurement is the standing battery voltage. Measure and make a note. (By the way, there is no way that your battery resting voltage is 14.2 volts! If you have a charger shut it off or get a new voltmeter) A decently charged lead acid battery will read maybe 12.6 volts.
OK now remove the anchor load from the windlass. That may require dropping the anchor or disconnecting it. Activate the windlass motor and measure the voltage again. It will be less than the resting voltage. Note that number.
Now put a load on the windlass. Activate it and measure the voltage while under load(hauling but not stalled). That voltage should by code be no more than 10% lower. If it is a lot lower but the small load second voltage wasn't, you have a wiring issue. If the voltage at the windlass is too low both under load and not, the windlass motor may be bad. I say 'maybe' because you can have a bad negative wiring issue and you will have the same problems.
To check the negative, first find the negative wire from the windlass where it connects at the helm probably on a buss bar and see if it is corroded.
Testing the negative circuit is different than the +12 volts. If you want to check, connect a voltmeter to the negative terminal on the battery that feeds the accessories and the other end of the voltmeter on the helm negative/ground buss bar.
Run the windlass under reasonable load and measure that voltage. It should be pretty low, and probably no more than about a half a volt. If higher, you have a problem in the negative wiring.
My tests may sound complicated but really aren't once you understand the logic.
Thanks guys. Very helpful. The main breaker is rated 50amps and windlass breaker is rated 35, so assuming it was wired correctly and the windlass breaker is functional, if the windlass circuit does run through the main breaker as well, I would have expected the windlass breaker to go first, but that didn’t happen. 14.2 was the battery reading on the yamaha command screen in idle, which is typically what I see out of either battery. Have not actually tested it directly on the battery as they are a pain to access.
I would expect the windlass breaker to trip first. If the main trips first, it may be bad. You can measure the voltage at its output side to compare to the battery voltage both with no load and with a load (doesn't have to be the windlass, halogen light like older style spreader light draw decent currents, just turn on a bunch of accessories.
The voltage in idle is obviously a charging voltage. It seems a bit higher than I would expect especially at idle but the voltmeter function on the rounds digital gauges is notoriously inaccurate if that is the style of gauge you have.
When measuring, all switched loads should be off
The voltage in idle is obviously a charging voltage. It seems a bit higher than I would expect especially at idle but the voltmeter function on the rounds digital gauges is notoriously inaccurate if that is the style of gauge you have.
When measuring, all switched loads should be off
In the wiring diagram of the manual I posted , it shows the winlass as a separate circuit not going through the house main circuit. I’ve never seen one going through the main. Manual says to place the lewmar breaker very close to the battery. Makes sense if that is the only breaker for the winlass. Is it possible that if there is a lot of normal draw on the main breaker, the winlass could be ok and still overload a 50 amp main. Maybe the house electrical system wasn’t designed to have the winlass included?
You are correct about the load being the sum of the windlass and any accessories that are powered up. Many of the newer windlasses draw more current than the old ones that are being replaced and the original wiring may not be adequate. Folks also may have added more electronics, lights, boom box stereos and other gear. It all adds up. Although it may be necessary to run new feeds, the part that is not clear is the fact that this problem is new and was not there last year. Now it is possible that some other load was added or equipment was updated but that has not been confirmed.
If it does turn out that new wiring is required, I would install a breaker at the battery switch(ABYC code) with a higher capacity and a breaker with a lower capacity (as required by the windlass) at the helm. That is to insure that an overload trips the helm breaker first so that the captain doesn't have to go aft to reset.
And once again, let me reiterate that if a new larger gauge 12v feed is installed, a new same gauge ground has to be installed also back to the battery.
Thanks again. No new equipment added, but after starting up was running Garmin GPS, VHF, stereo, so perhaps all of that plus the windlass motor straining was enough to trip the 50 amp main but not the windlass breaker itself? After taking a closer look at the windlass it does seem to be in need of some lubrication and maybe more. I used the wrench to loosen the gypsy completely and the anchor does not free fall without a bit of help, and manual adjustment does not seem smooth, so something with the windlass itself seems to be problematic. Perhaps the electrical was doing exactly what it should have and I just need to hold off on powering up all the electronics until the anchor is stowed, and also make sure to maintain the windlass properly, which I haven’t.
Thank you seasick for the explanation. Great info. My winlass freefalls with 0 resistance. When I loosen the gypsy, it spins like the wheel on wheel of fortune. That resistance has to draw a lot of amps, especially when it is under a load.
On my 330 the windlass is fed directly off a battery bank, not the main house buss. My guess is that you will find a big voltage drop when putting a load on the windlass. Thereby creating very high amperage, higher through the main breaker since a lot of other items (loads) are on that buss. It could simply be a weak battery. Try a load test on your batteries. The alternator is keeping the 14+ volts, but that doesn't mean you have a good battery(s). Could be corroded connections causing high resistance, but I'd bet on a weak battery. I bought a cheap load tester. Fully charge the battery so that it indicates 12.0 -12.8 volts and load test it with no other loads on it. Seasick is right on, if the voltage drops too much, the amperage can go way up. I assume the windlass was installed by Grady and given the age of the boat, my bet is on the battery(s). I did note something in the V700 spec that I don't fully understand. It said "normal current draw" was 45 amps, but the "circuit breaker" was 35A? Must be a slow trip breaker with a 45A surge capacity.
No issues with batteries before and only 3rd season running them. Marine yard is supposed to trickle charge in off season so surpised they would be weak. No sign of problems when starting up. How much of a voltage drop from fully charged resting state would suggest a problem with the battery? Is it a simple as connecting multimeter to battery and hitting windlass switch to test or more complicated?
You can find the voltage drop that way, but a better test is a $20 load tester. I'd check the water level in the battery as some trickle chargers are not "smart" and can slowly boil the water out. It should be easy to rule out the battery and that allows you to focus elsewhere.
I think your idea about excessive drag in the windlass may be the cause and if so, your are correct again, the breaker is doing what it is supposed to do ( sort of
). The extra draw is not enough to trip the windlass breaker but when added to the other loads, the main breaker is at the limit. That breaker might be weak due to age but nevertheless, you need to look at the windlass, Good luck.
With respect to a possible week battery; If the motor starts OK the battery is probably OK. I also didn't ask but was the motor running when you used the windlass and it tripped the breaker. That's not really important but I am 'electrically' interested.
Good luck,
). The extra draw is not enough to trip the windlass breaker but when added to the other loads, the main breaker is at the limit. That breaker might be weak due to age but nevertheless, you need to look at the windlass, Good luck.With respect to a possible week battery; If the motor starts OK the battery is probably OK. I also didn't ask but was the motor running when you used the windlass and it tripped the breaker. That's not really important but I am 'electrically' interested.
Good luck,
Thanks. Yes motor was running. I always start up before retrieving the anchor.I think your idea about excessive drag in the windlass may be the cause and if so, your are correct again, the breaker is doing what it is supposed to do ( sort of
With respect to a possible week battery; If the motor starts OK the battery is probably OK. I also didn't ask but was the motor running when you used the windlass and it tripped the breaker. That's not really important but I am 'electrically' interested.
Good luck,
Thanks for that info. It helps eliminate some possibilities. Check the windlass for drag, worn or dry bushings and hopefully not a bad motor.
The Lewmar 700 has a three year warranty, but make sure you look at and perform the annual required maintenance. I have a 1000 that I pull the cover and grease each year. The case seal on mine is weak and I found water one year. Mine had a 5 year warranty.