Livewell Help Please

[Uncle Joe]

I have a 1982 Offshore, it does not have a livewell or washdown. Presently I am using a 24 gal Moeller tank sitting on the deck with a bilge pump which I rigged on a bracket and hang over the transom when I have bait to keep alive. This works very well while drifting or at trolling speed, but I have to shut it down to run anywhere. Then I have to stop every once in a while and run the pump for a few minutes. A real pain.

I want to install a seacock with a ball valve through the hull....mount the pump below decks......run a hose through one of my rear seats (the compartment below was penetrated years ago for my oil reservoir) and leave a few feet of hose coiled up in there and then just connect it to my tank when I need it.

2 questions......I am not really familiar with all the hardware I will need....and....any safety concerns with what I am describing?

BTW.....I hang a hose out over the stern for the outflow from the tank.

Any tips/advice is welcome.

Thanks!

 

[SkunkBoat]

We stopped using the livewell on our 265. The brand new Rule pump on the thru hull kept popping loose while running. Closed the valve and now we just use the livewell as a cooler (its insulated). So when we need to keep bunker alive for striper fishing, we put the washdown on light spray into a 100qt igloo and let it overflow on deck. It gets us by.

So what I am saying is just install a washdown system and you get a 2fer.

 

[loubeer]

We stopped using the livewell on our 265. The brand new Rule pump on the thru hull kept popping loose while running. Closed the valve and now we just use the livewell as a cooler (its insulated). So when we need to keep bunker alive for striper fishing, we put the washdown on light spray into a 100qt igloo and let it overflow on deck. It gets us by.

So what I am saying is just install a washdown system and you get a 2fer.

"Popping loose" - please explain??

 

[SkunkBoat]

"Popping loose" - please explain??

the ring at the bottom that allows you to change the angle of the port. So the pump head does not come off but water dribbles from the ring.
I had just replaced the entire thing before the season. We found it loose after the first run of the season and again after the second run so we shut the valve and forgot about it for the season.
IDK if I just didn't get it turned right but after twice I was done.
I have replaced a cooked pump motor twice since 2017. The pump is mounted directly to the thruhull, There is not strainer between.
Thinking of adding a hose & strainer and mounting the pump on a bulkhead.

When you run there is a lot of water pressure into the thruhull. That is why it will fill the tank even when the pump is turned off if the valve is open.
I have lost a lot of ice that way

 

[Uncle Joe]

Skunk....I guess what I described would give me that 2fer....no? I would just connect to the tank for a livewel l.....or just use it as a washdown. Either way I need the seacock and pump in the bilge....right?

 

[SkunkBoat]

Skunk....I guess what I described would give me that 2fer....no? I would just connect to the tank for a livewel l.....or just use it as a washdown. Either way I need the seacock and pump in the bilge....right?

So... full disclosure
a Washdown pump is high pressure whereas a Livewell pump is low pressure/high volume. " In theory", you want high volume to a livewell to replace the water faster. If you are trying to keep anchovies or herring alive maybe that matters but bunker are pretty hardy.
You don't get enough pressure from a livewell pump to make a good "washdown" system that sprays from a hose nozzle.

So I am suggesting that you buy a Washdown kit. The kit will give you a pump, strainer, fittings, hose connector and a coiled hose and nozzle.
Yes you would also need a thruhull ball valve.

 

[wrxhoon]

Have a read in this :

228 Baitwell Aerator Addition

Have a question, My 228's rear center baitwell doesn't have an aerator or pump. I only use it to keep fish that I catch alive if I feel like taking a few home to eat. I currently fill it up using my Homer bucket. They of course die from lack of oxygen in a few hours. Could an addition of aerator...

www.greatgrady.com

 

[seasick]

So... full disclosure
a Washdown pump is high pressure whereas a Livewell pump is low pressure/high volume. " In theory", you want high volume to a livewell to replace the water faster. If you are trying to keep anchovies or herring alive maybe that matters but bunker are pretty hardy.
You don't get enough pressure from a livewell pump to make a good "washdown" system that sprays from a hose nozzle.

So I am suggesting that you buy a Washdown kit. The kit will give you a pump, strainer, fittings, hose connector and a coiled hose and nozzle.
Yes you would also need a thruhull ball valve.

I may have to disagree a bit about the pump. Washdowns are usually higher volume/pressure but low duty cycle. Livewell pumps are rated for continuous duty but generally lower pressure/volume

The most important factor for a livewell is the changes per hour rate. Of course different species may need different rates but the bottom line is that if the rate is too low, the fish suffocate. If it is too high, the fish will be stressed and can drown.
So bigger ( higher GPH is not necessarily a good thing.
You can look up the typical rates for different species and using that along with the capacity of the well, calculate the desired pump GPH spec. When doing so, figure that the actual rate will be lower than the specified rate of the pump dues to the plumbing hoses and fittings.

 

[glacierbaze]

A good washdown pump is 5-6 gallons/minute, or 300-360 gal/hr. How is that more volume than an 800-1100 gal/hr livewell pump?

 

[seasick]

A good washdown pump is 5-6 gallons/minute, or 300-360 gal/hr. How is that more volume than an 800-1100 gal/hr livewell pump?

That's a good point!
I may be confused about the volume point and should have only mentioned pressure. Then again, I am now not so sure that the static pressure of a livewell pump would be less than a washdown pump. hmmmmm

 

[Uncle Joe]

So....If I may interrupt?

I am thinking I need a seacock/ball valve combo, with a 90 degree hose barb....a foot or two of hose into my pump.....then several feet of hose out of the pump which I can attach to my portable tank when needed....sound right?

I don't think I can use a pump that mounts directly on top of the seacock as there is limited room in the bilge of my Offshore

 

[Timbo]

We stopped using the livewell on our 265. The brand new Rule pump on the thru hull kept popping loose while running. Closed the valve and now we just use the livewell as a cooler (its insulated). So when we need to keep bunker alive for striper fishing, we put the washdown on light spray into a 100qt igloo and let it overflow on deck. It gets us by.

So what I am saying is just install a washdown system and you get a 2fer.

My rule pump has a tiny set screw that prevents that from “popping off” maybe your set screw is missing

 

[SkunkBoat]

So....If I may interrupt?

I am thinking I need a seacock/ball valve combo, with a 90 degree hose barb....a foot or two of hose into my pump.....then several feet of hose out of the pump which I can attach to my portable tank when needed....sound right?

I don't think I can use a pump that mounts directly on top of the seacock as there is limited room in the bilge of my Offshore

yes that will do. what pump do you have? its a livewell pump? Rule has different assemblies for threaded to a seacock, threaded to go out the transom, or hose barb.
the motors are 'cartridges' that work on all three types of housings.
it is probably a good idea to add a small strainer before the pump.

 

[glacierbaze]

Make sure you get a real seacock, and not just a ball valve. A seacock has straight pipe threads on the bottom, to accomadate the threads on the through hull scoop, and tapered threads on the top, for the threads on most everything else, such as hose barbs, nipples, etc. If you mix threads, it will feel tight after just a couple of turns, but it will be a weak/dangerous connection. Also, a seacock should have a flange on the bottom, so that you can fasten it to the hull, or to a mounting block.

 

[Uncle Joe]

yes that will do. what pump do you have? its a livewell pump? Rule has different assemblies for threaded to a seacock, threaded to go out the transom, or hose barb.
the motors are 'cartridges' that work on all three types of housings.
it is probably a good idea to add a small strainer before the pump.

Don't have the pump yet.....the one I have is just a typical bilge pump. Think I want one with hose barbs in and out.

 

[SkunkBoat]

This is pretty much the standard for a small boat.
Amazon Rule FC500 You could go with an 800gph too

3/4 bronze scoop

3/4 strainer


The Rule is designed to mount to seacock so it has no flanges to screw to a bulkhead.

 

[wrxhoon]

Livewell pumps are rated for continuous duty but generally lower pressure/volume

Lower pressure yes but generally higher volume and require much lower current (less amps) to pump the same amount of water . That makes them ideal for livewells.

The most important factor for a livewell is the changes per hour rate. Of course different species may need different rates but the bottom line is that if the rate is too low, the fish suffocate. If it is too high, the fish will be stressed and can drown.

I agree with the minimum amount of water required to keep them alive . I disagree that they will drown by constantly supplying more water. I never had them drown in all the years I fish with livies.

If that is a concern he can use a timer. I have one in order to save my batteries when I don't have many livies in the tank. No pump required if under way the scoop pumps as much as having the pump on at any speed above 20 mph.

 

[Hookup1]

Install a thru-hull seacock with a clamshell drilled out in the back ( 3 - 3/8" holes). Install Rule 500, 800 or 1100 GPH bait pump. Add a SurFlow wash down pump off the Rule fitting.

 

[hooked on Grady]

I may have to disagree a bit about the pump. Washdowns are usually higher volume/pressure but low duty cycle. Livewell pumps are rated for continuous duty but generally lower pressure/volume

The most important factor for a livewell is the changes per hour rate. Of course different species may need different rates but the bottom line is that if the rate is too low, the fish suffocate. If it is too high, the fish will be stressed and can drown.
So bigger ( higher GPH is not necessarily a good thing.
You can look up the typical rates for different species and using that along with the capacity of the well, calculate the desired pump GPH spec. When doing so, figure that the actual rate will be lower than the specified rate of the pump dues to the plumbing hoses and fittings.

Agreed, this is why I chose a bait well pump with adjustable outflow and a wash down pump separate. After doing some home work I came up with exactly what you mention so I went with both.Thanks, makes me feel better about the extra expense of it all.

 

[seasick]

Lower pressure yes but generally higher volume and require much lower current (less amps) to pump the same amount of water . That makes them ideal for livewells.


I agree with the minimum amount of water required to keep them alive . I disagree that they will drown by constantly supplying more water. I never had them drown in all the years I fish with livies.

If that is a concern he can use a timer. I have one in order to save my batteries when I don't have many livies in the tank. No pump required if under way the scoop pumps as much as having the pump on at any speed above 20 mph.

It's no the rapid changing of the water that harms some bait but rather the case where the livewell water swirls at too fast a speed. The fish have to keep up with the current and if too strong, the fist get tired and can't keep up. I said that they will drown but actually they can suffocate from lack of water flowing over their gills