I have a livewell on the port side behind the companion seat. (95 Islander). We use the well to store our catch and keep them alive until returning to dock. (Fluke, seabass). I have a baitwell pump connected and run it occasioally to fill with O2 water but it quickly drains out the fill tube when the pump is off. We don't run the pump contiuously to reserve house battery power for electronics. Is there a check valve that could be cut into the supply line to prevent backflow draining to the pump? Other solutions to the draining problem? We do cork the thruhull fitting in the bottom. I know I could close the seacock but that would be a pain to do each time I want to run the pump, maybe every 1/2 hour or so.
Livewell help
- Thread starter 1st grady
- Start date
I'm not a big fisherman, but shouldn't the pump, itself, act as the check valve? I have a washdown pump on my Grady and a fresh water pump on my Sundancer. Both of those act as check valves. The fresh water pump even resists the pressure that it builds up on the downstream side. Could your pump be worn out?
what is the difference between a baitwell pump and the factory livewell pump? if you are using a second pump shouldn't you rig a second drain routed back to that pump
you could use an aerator
you could use an aerator
"Put a rubber plug in it. Done."
I tried that but it pops out from the hydraulic pressure while under way and it is a pain to insert when we turn the pump off then reinsert (get up again Dave) when pump goes on.
I would think the pump would have a check valve built in but apparently not.
"Both of those act as check valves. The fresh water pump even resists the pressure that it builds up on the downstream side. Could your pump be worn out?"
The pump is only a few years old but has worked as such since the install.
The plastic check valves online do not have good reviews. There is a bronze unit, $30, that is threaded both ends. I need to check thread compatability prior to purchasing.
I tried that but it pops out from the hydraulic pressure while under way and it is a pain to insert when we turn the pump off then reinsert (get up again Dave) when pump goes on.
I would think the pump would have a check valve built in but apparently not.
"Both of those act as check valves. The fresh water pump even resists the pressure that it builds up on the downstream side. Could your pump be worn out?"
The pump is only a few years old but has worked as such since the install.
The plastic check valves online do not have good reviews. There is a bronze unit, $30, that is threaded both ends. I need to check thread compatability prior to purchasing.
I don't fully understand what you have. The rubber plug goes into the drain on the bottom of the livewell It should not pop out from hydraulic pressure.1st grady said:
How are you connecting the bait pump ( To what line) or are you just running a pump with a hose into the livewell (under the lid).
If you explain better we probably can help.
The baitwell is fed from a dedicated Rule baitwell pump in the bilge and enters the well on the side but close to the bottom. The drains are in the bottom which I plug and a second one about 10 inches off the bottom. When the pump is turned off, the well drains by gravity through the fill hose connected to the Rule pump then out the bottom of the boat.
I think I have solved the problem by forming a loop in the fill hose and making it higher than the level of the water in the well in order to prevent the syphoning effect. All I will need is a barb to add a section of hose to form the loop.
Thanks for the ideas, sometimes you just need to talk things out and I am not able to sit out on the boat with the guys in 18 degrees and problem solve.
I think I have solved the problem by forming a loop in the fill hose and making it higher than the level of the water in the well in order to prevent the syphoning effect. All I will need is a barb to add a section of hose to form the loop.
Thanks for the ideas, sometimes you just need to talk things out and I am not able to sit out on the boat with the guys in 18 degrees and problem solve.
There are several options:1st grady said:
Of course shutting the seacock will stop backflow.
Adding a check valve will work also. This is probably the easiest solution.
Some pumps like centrifugal can backflow and other type like diaphragm usually won't.
I would go with the check valve;easy to install inline on the output of the pump. The only downside is if you are in a freezing climate. You will need to be sure that the plumbing is empty of water. By the way, adding a high loop may cause a similar risk of freezing.
One final comment. Are you sure the fill line is where the water is draining from? My experience is that the rubber plug is more often the leak. In addition, make sure all the thru fittings are sealed well. You might be leaking into the bilge but hopefully you would see that. The way to tell is to undo the outlet hose at the pump, plug it, fill the livewell(with the stopper in) and see if the water level goes down. It will always drain to the level of the overflow fitting.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Hi 1stGrady, sorry to resurrect old thread, but how did the higher loop work out?
I am getting ready to switch over from my Shurflo Pro Baitmaster diaphram pump to a Shurflo Piranha centrifigal pump which will direct thread onto the seacock.
Reason for this is that the Baitmaster pulls about 9amps and the Piranha pulls 1/2 of that..about 4.5 amps. Also, the Baitmaster is very loud and normall the centrifigals are very quiet.
I am very concerned on the drainback issue as the inlet into the bait tank on this model Grady is in lower part of the side and the drain is at the top. So all of the water would drain out if I turn off the pump for a while.
Thinking that making a high loop up into the top of the transom, then down under the floor up to bait tank will work as long as the boat is in the water, should not siphon out?
Anyone have a setup like this? Before I go into all this plumbing, want to get some experiences from ya'll out there! :mrgreen:
I am getting ready to switch over from my Shurflo Pro Baitmaster diaphram pump to a Shurflo Piranha centrifigal pump which will direct thread onto the seacock.
Reason for this is that the Baitmaster pulls about 9amps and the Piranha pulls 1/2 of that..about 4.5 amps. Also, the Baitmaster is very loud and normall the centrifigals are very quiet.
I am very concerned on the drainback issue as the inlet into the bait tank on this model Grady is in lower part of the side and the drain is at the top. So all of the water would drain out if I turn off the pump for a while.
Thinking that making a high loop up into the top of the transom, then down under the floor up to bait tank will work as long as the boat is in the water, should not siphon out?
Anyone have a setup like this? Before I go into all this plumbing, want to get some experiences from ya'll out there! :mrgreen:
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Roberth,,,,,,My 228 has a check valve on the livewell inlet after the thru hull pickup pump. When I bought the boat, filled livewell and with overflow pipe installed, shut pump off and water drained back out. Rebuilt valve, now holds water as designed. Very simple valve.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Thanks. I just found a springless check valve made by Whale. I think this will be perfect as it has no pressure restricting the flow.
Put the check valve in the most convenient spot - there could come a time when you have to clear debris from it. An upward loop will not stop siphoning from happening. I don't believe being in the water will completely eliminate the siphoning, either. Water will want to find it's on level - the siphoning will stop once the level in the tank is equal to the water the boat is sitting in.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
That was what I was thinking also Dennis.
I have to figure out how to mount the valve and also allow for winterization. With this style pump, I am perplexed at the moment of how to winterize since the pump is pulling directly from the seacock valve, unlike now, my 2 pumps (washdown and livewell) are plumbed first by going to a prefilter from the seacock, then I have a 3 way valve inline that I use to pull antifreeze from the bottle directly and can run both pumps to pull the fluid out of the gallon jug.
Just now thinking as I type.....I think maybe I can put a 90 degree fitting on the thru hull, then add my 3 way, then thread on the Piranha pump. This way, when I turn off the thru hull seacock valve, then open the 3way, it will pull in the fluid in either pump. Just didn't want to install the Piranha horizontally, but don't see any choice.
No idea how others are winterizing those that thread directly onto the seacock.
I have to figure out how to mount the valve and also allow for winterization. With this style pump, I am perplexed at the moment of how to winterize since the pump is pulling directly from the seacock valve, unlike now, my 2 pumps (washdown and livewell) are plumbed first by going to a prefilter from the seacock, then I have a 3 way valve inline that I use to pull antifreeze from the bottle directly and can run both pumps to pull the fluid out of the gallon jug.
Just now thinking as I type.....I think maybe I can put a 90 degree fitting on the thru hull, then add my 3 way, then thread on the Piranha pump. This way, when I turn off the thru hull seacock valve, then open the 3way, it will pull in the fluid in either pump. Just didn't want to install the Piranha horizontally, but don't see any choice.
No idea how others are winterizing those that thread directly onto the seacock.
Couldn't you just pour antifreeze "backwards" through the inlet in the livewell?
Something to consider... I know a decent amount of boats have a livewell pump mounted directly to the seacock. But I've always felt that can be a dangerous situation. Imagine... and it wouldn't be too far fetched for this to happen... you happen to bump the livewell with a foot. Not enough to completely break it, but possibly enough to crack it. As the boat runs, the crack gets worse from vibration. Now you have water pouring into the bilge. If you're operating the boat, you would likely figure it out and close the seacock. But if the boat is sitting in the water, in a slip, you're now relying on the batteries to keep the bilge pump going until you get back to the boat (granted, you should always close the seacock when not at the boat). I've always felt it's MUCH safer to install a stand-a-lone pump. PLUS, with stand-a-lone, there will be a hose from the seacock to the pump - that hose is easily removed, dunked into a gallon of antifreeze, and then turn the pump on to winterize.
3-way valves and such are good idea to winterize - just keep in mind that you want to lessen the number of "hard" items built onto a seacock.
Something to consider... I know a decent amount of boats have a livewell pump mounted directly to the seacock. But I've always felt that can be a dangerous situation. Imagine... and it wouldn't be too far fetched for this to happen... you happen to bump the livewell with a foot. Not enough to completely break it, but possibly enough to crack it. As the boat runs, the crack gets worse from vibration. Now you have water pouring into the bilge. If you're operating the boat, you would likely figure it out and close the seacock. But if the boat is sitting in the water, in a slip, you're now relying on the batteries to keep the bilge pump going until you get back to the boat (granted, you should always close the seacock when not at the boat). I've always felt it's MUCH safer to install a stand-a-lone pump. PLUS, with stand-a-lone, there will be a hose from the seacock to the pump - that hose is easily removed, dunked into a gallon of antifreeze, and then turn the pump on to winterize.
3-way valves and such are good idea to winterize - just keep in mind that you want to lessen the number of "hard" items built onto a seacock.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Hi Dennis, I agree with the risk, but in my case, the pump will be well below deck and will never be impacted in any way so think that risk is minimal in my case based upon how this boat is setup. I do agree though in regards to if I kept it in the water, I would have the concern as well but trailering and having the high water alarm will be on my side I hope if ever any issue.
The reach down through the access plate is all I can do to reach the seacock valve.
To fill backwards will be tough since even the inlet into the baittank is not reachable by me, it is so far down and back, I don't see any way to get to it. Other than fill the tank with antifreeze enough to get it to flow back, which would cost quite a bit in gallons to achieve this. :cry:
I will study some options and see if I can come up with something crafty here and take pics if I can get it done to my satisfaction. Thinking of that 3way on top of the seacock valve might be a start in the right direction. :mrgreen:
The reach down through the access plate is all I can do to reach the seacock valve.
To fill backwards will be tough since even the inlet into the baittank is not reachable by me, it is so far down and back, I don't see any way to get to it. Other than fill the tank with antifreeze enough to get it to flow back, which would cost quite a bit in gallons to achieve this. :cry:
I will study some options and see if I can come up with something crafty here and take pics if I can get it done to my satisfaction. Thinking of that 3way on top of the seacock valve might be a start in the right direction. :mrgreen:
Robert, as long as you're aware of the risks and can manage them... good enough.
As far as backfilling through the livewell... if you cranked the bow of the boat high enough, would that work? Is the inlet close to the bottom of the tank?
Back to "re-designing" the setup, I don't think there is one "best" way to do it. It's really just what would work best for you. Do you "need" a 90* fitting due to space requirements? I imagine that bronze 3-ways are expensive? Could you install a simple T-fitting right on top of the seacock, then put the pump on the "top" of the T and a hose/shut-off on the "side" of the T? The hose could be long enough (and the shut-off could be at either end of the hose) to reach up to the deck. If the shut-off is NOT at the T-fitting side, the hose must be reinforced hose.
Google for "fake-a-lake".
EDIT: Disregard back filling. If you install the back flow preventer, you obviously can't back fill. BUT... if that back flow fitting is in an easy to get to spot, just slip the hose off the pump side of the fitting and pour AF in there. You could always stick an extension hose into the existing hose so you can do the pouring from the deck if space is a problem.
As far as backfilling through the livewell... if you cranked the bow of the boat high enough, would that work? Is the inlet close to the bottom of the tank?
Back to "re-designing" the setup, I don't think there is one "best" way to do it. It's really just what would work best for you. Do you "need" a 90* fitting due to space requirements? I imagine that bronze 3-ways are expensive? Could you install a simple T-fitting right on top of the seacock, then put the pump on the "top" of the T and a hose/shut-off on the "side" of the T? The hose could be long enough (and the shut-off could be at either end of the hose) to reach up to the deck. If the shut-off is NOT at the T-fitting side, the hose must be reinforced hose.
Google for "fake-a-lake".
EDIT: Disregard back filling. If you install the back flow preventer, you obviously can't back fill. BUT... if that back flow fitting is in an easy to get to spot, just slip the hose off the pump side of the fitting and pour AF in there. You could always stick an extension hose into the existing hose so you can do the pouring from the deck if space is a problem.
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Hi Dennis, now down to type of materials here.
As I recall, below waterline should be bronze and not use dis-similar metals, so assuming that the original Grady Seacock is bronze, would need to either use a plastic type of T fitting and nipple or go bronze.
I was not able to find anything made by Marelon, so found a 4 way T fitting in Bronze that is 3/4" threaded which is $20 and the bronze nipple is $15 on Amazon.
Otherwise, the only other alternative is PVC fittings, but the more plastic, the more the risks.
What other options do I have?
As I recall, below waterline should be bronze and not use dis-similar metals, so assuming that the original Grady Seacock is bronze, would need to either use a plastic type of T fitting and nipple or go bronze.
I was not able to find anything made by Marelon, so found a 4 way T fitting in Bronze that is 3/4" threaded which is $20 and the bronze nipple is $15 on Amazon.
Otherwise, the only other alternative is PVC fittings, but the more plastic, the more the risks.
What other options do I have?
You are correct, for under the waterline use bronze and Marelon (which is not really "plastic") are the only choices. A 4-way would be fine since you can just plug the unused hole. But if you want to keep things simpler and cleaner, T's are definitely available. You might want to go directly to a manufacturer's website to find the part (and part number) you want. Then just google for a retailer. Groco, Midland Metal, Perko are all good sources. Be careful with what you buy on Amazon or eBay - you don't want to end up with something that is brass, but listed as bronze (which sometimes happens with cheap/offshore companies). Brass is far enough away on the scale that it can cause problems down the road. It wouldn't be the worst thing to do, but it's best to avoid it. Stick with a brand name and you should be good.
Is the Fake-a-lake not your style?
Is the Fake-a-lake not your style?
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
Hi Dennis, I was just doing some online shopping with West Marine and see that they have a Bronze 3 way T fitting in 3/4" in stock. What they don't have is the nipple, but can order it and ship to store. Was hoping to get these quickly while I have time off from work, but maybe I can get the nipple by next week.
From what I have rigged right now, all I have to do is remove the 90 degree elbow coming out of my seacock, install the nipple and T connector. Then screw on the pump and the other outlet from the T fitting will be my fill hose with shut off valve that I use to pull in the antifreeze. Should be really easy to do now that I checked it out. The washdown will exit from the second fitting on the pump.
To winterize, I would shut off the seacock, open the fill hose valve and insert hose into a gallon jug, turn on pump and it should pull it in like it does today.
The fake a lake is last resort as I don't want to have to crawl underneath the boat and try to wedge this device, etc. I also wonder about how well they seal up as if any leaking, will lose the antifreeze and get air trying to pull in the fluid. I read up some on this and seems some folks have had this issue. Your experience in case I need to go there is appreciated.
From what I have rigged right now, all I have to do is remove the 90 degree elbow coming out of my seacock, install the nipple and T connector. Then screw on the pump and the other outlet from the T fitting will be my fill hose with shut off valve that I use to pull in the antifreeze. Should be really easy to do now that I checked it out. The washdown will exit from the second fitting on the pump.
To winterize, I would shut off the seacock, open the fill hose valve and insert hose into a gallon jug, turn on pump and it should pull it in like it does today.
The fake a lake is last resort as I don't want to have to crawl underneath the boat and try to wedge this device, etc. I also wonder about how well they seal up as if any leaking, will lose the antifreeze and get air trying to pull in the fluid. I read up some on this and seems some folks have had this issue. Your experience in case I need to go there is appreciated.
Sounds like you have a good plan there. FYI, a couple other good online retailers (if you wanted to) to check out (I'm personally not a big fan of WM) are Jamestown Distributors and Hamilton Marine.
I've done alright with the Fake-a-lake. Maybe someone didn't wedge it hard enough against the hull? Maybe the hull had a lot of layers (uneven) of bottom paint? Hard to say why someone on some forum had a problem. It's not rocket science to get it to work, though, you know? A piece of cheap, stick-on foam weatherstrip would help. Actually, the one I have (lot's of boats in the family, so you need lot's of "tools"!) I simply made out of a rubber toilet plunger, some hardware store fittings, a length of old garden hose and an extra (adjustable) cover support pole.
I've done alright with the Fake-a-lake. Maybe someone didn't wedge it hard enough against the hull? Maybe the hull had a lot of layers (uneven) of bottom paint? Hard to say why someone on some forum had a problem. It's not rocket science to get it to work, though, you know? A piece of cheap, stick-on foam weatherstrip would help. Actually, the one I have (lot's of boats in the family, so you need lot's of "tools"!) I simply made out of a rubber toilet plunger, some hardware store fittings, a length of old garden hose and an extra (adjustable) cover support pole.