Marine head upgrade.

[Capt Bill]

My 255 Freedom (2012) has a factory installed marine head that looks much like a porta-potty, but plumbed to a holding tank (no macerator and no thru-hull discharge). There is a deck pump-out, so tank could be emptied at a pump-out facility. Most of our use is beyond the 3 mi limit for discharge, and the marina has no pumpout, so I am contemplating changing things out.

What would you recommend for a new head, macerator and pump, for optional thru-hull discharge. I realize the thru-hull has to be secured closed when inside the 3 mi limit. Suggestions for a materials list, or would you go about this in another way?
Also was thinking of buying this Electric Comfort toilet.

 

[DennisG01]

Although I'm not a fan of pumping overboard...

Probably the easiest solution is to put a Y-valve in the pump out hose and connect the Y to a macerator/seacock/thru-hull.

Are there other marinas in the area with a pump-out? Must be something nearby on your way out or in?

 

[seasick]

The Jabsco site has pretty good diagrams for the plumbing. One thing to note is that the discharge through-hull is often on the bottom of the hull. I mention that since installing a new through hull in the bottom is a bigger job than through the side. In addition, that through hull is a larger size than the typical one for let's say bilge or shower drain. The bottom mounted through hull needs a sea cock also. You probably have the wiring in place assuming the discharge MSD was an option for that hull. If I were looking into the project details, I would find someone with the same hull and with the macerator option and see how things were configured.

 

[Capt Bill]

Thanks, and good suggestions Dennis & Seasick. To me, the reason I like overboard discharge is, the head is actually seldom used, but when it is, it's primarily the ladies, to relieve their bladder. Rarely ever needed a macerator, and with only liquid in the tank, and not much of that, it seems reasonable to empty well offshore. They seem to like the idea of an actual toilet vs a H.D. bucket.

Not sure that I will actually do much more than replace the existing square plastic thing that's in there, with a new porcelain toilet. I may call Grady CS to ask for details on their other configurations, but if anyone here on GG can offer photos and or any details of their MSD, I would appreciate.

 

[DennisG01]

One thing I would add, Bill... don't get too caught up in using what Grady would have used. A head system is an independent system from the rest of the boat. Install what works best for you. Jabsco is good stuff - so is Dometic. Dometic's Vacuflush system is VERY nice, but pricey, and requires onboard water (which actually helps keep smells down). Just go their websites and look around and see what would work for you. It should be pretty easy to imagine what it would look like... after all, it's just a toilet! But you can check sizes of things to make sure your clearances (including height) will work.

 

[glacierbaze]

A porta potty has its own built-in holding tank, which does not gravity drain. How does your current set up get the waste from the Porta potty to the holding tank, and where is the holding tank located?
I was thinking vee berth, then realized this must be under the passenger side dash console. Pics of your set up. Brochure for that year model shows a porcelain head, similar to the one that you linked

 

[DennisG01]

A porta potty has its own built-in holding tank, which does not gravity drain. How does your current set up get the waste from the Porta potty to the holding tank, and where is the holding tank located?

There's a second style of porta potti called an "MSD" PP. That style does have a fitting on the back that could be used as a drain. However, it's not "completely" on the bottom so it wouldn't fully drain - but close - and may require a pump of some sort to move the stuff to a holding tank.

However, this brings up a good point... Bill, do you have a SECONDARY holding tank somewhere? Or, is the potty's built-in holding tank the only one?

 

[Capt Bill]

Thanks. All good comments and suggestions.
Yes, the 2012 Freedom 255 was available in 5 marine head options, and Dennis is correct in that the one I have, is factory plumbed to a holding tank, below deck, port side . Holding tank plumbed to a SS pump-out fitting on port side gunnel.
Here's the setup:

 

[glacierbaze]

Capt. Bill, the picture that you are showing is not the system that you are describing for your boat. That is the old Sanipotty/Dometic 964. Refer to the picture of the back of the holding tank in the link below. I just replaced that same porta potty/MSD in my Seafarer with the newer model 976, with an MSD adapter. I do not have an additional holding tank, I have a macerator in the discharge line from the toilet to a Y valve, which selects overboard discharge or deck pump out. Actually, the Y valve comes first, and selects either macerator/discharge, or pump out. You can get a better look at what you have by releasing the two clips on each side of the toilet, and lifting the top half off, leaving the holding tank attached to the deck.

DOMETIC SANIPOTTIE - Scamp Trailers

Dometic Sani Potti. 2.5 Gal.

www.scamptrailers.com

Grady converted that porta potty to a MSD by drilling a hole in the slanted surface right above the handle of the holding tank, and inserting a PVC fitting, with a 1 1/2 inch hose barb on the outside, and a suction tube extending to the bottom of the tank on the inside. That fitting is at the very top of the tank, and the only way to empty that tank in it’s permanently mounted position is by suction. The original method would have been to unscrew that large round cap underneath your discharge hose, and pour the waste into an appropriate receptacle. If I recall correctly, you bought that boat this spring, so maybe you have never emptied it before.
The picture that would be helpful now is the below deck holding tank. You said in the OP that you did not have a macerator pump, but I believe that you will find there is one inside the holding tank. That is the only way I see to get the waste from the toilet tank to the holding tank below, and from there it is sucked overboard through the deck fitting. There is no gravity transfer from one tank to the other in the set up that you pictured.

 

[glacierbaze]

This was the standard equipment in 2012. Portable head with no holding tank. The only one which does not require a macerator, with the discharge hose going straight from the portable toilet to the deck pump out.


Head - lockable port console w/dome light, bulk storage, mirror w/shelf, composite cherry & holly sole & portable head w/deck pump out.

These were the options in the Grady brochure. Marine heads with 10 gallon holding tank’s.


Head - marine head w/electric flush, 10-gallon (38 l) holding tank w/macerator, overboard discharge & deck pump out

Head - marine head w/manual flush, 10-gallon (38 l) holding tank w/macerator, overboard discharge & deck pump out

 

[Capt Bill]

Glacier...
All good info you provided, but I have the 2012 models booklet in my hand, and under options for marine head, it shows one you did not list. The Grady book for a 255 Freedom shows:
1. Marine head with electric flush, 10 gallon..
2. Marine head with macerator, 10 gallon holding tank & pumpout
3. Portable with deck pumpout (no macerator).
4. Portable with in-line macerator.

I believe I have the 3rd option listed here. No macerator, and none needed for a pumpout at a marina.
I did but this boat in April, but she was only launched 3 days ago, and no, we have not used this head, nor even really looked at it before this week. I have been very busy with many other projects on the boat, and also at home, until now. I will remove the upper section of the portable toilet tomorrow, and check the lower tank section to see if it is empty. I think what I will do is put about 5 gallons of water with some tank treatment chemical, then run the boat to slosh it around, then find someplace that can pump it out.

My next project would be to see what is involved in replacing the toilet with a proper one, and maybe install that macerator you talked about, with a Y valve. I'd like to see another boat ( some decent photos) of how Grady installed those.

 

[glacierbaze]

Bill, I also think that #3 is what you have, it was the first of the three I listed above. But, you seemed sure that you had a 10 gallon holding tank below deck, and who was I to say that you didn't, but option #3 does not.
You don't have to separate the toilet to check the contents in the tank, just pull the lever on the front of the toilet out, and the trap door will open, and you should be able to see the contents with a flashlight. Hopefully, it has no contents You should also be able to see the dip tube coming in the back of the tank. It should be close to the bottom, but not touching, unless the end is cut at an angle which can't be blocked by the bottom.
Taking the top off will give you a better look at the connections, and it never hurts to know what is there. Be easy with the 2 side clips, they get brittle with age, and are about $20 each to replace.
I bought my boat last July, and the ladies never used the old head, and I never did anything with it until this spring, which was to get rid of it with as expeditiously as possible. Replaced it with the 5 gallon 976, more for height than capacity, and I also plan to empty exclusively outside 3 miles. The system I have is very simple, and a DIY job for a reasonably skilled person. It is all contained under the starboard side of my vee berth. You would just need to add a Y valve, a macerator, and a through hull/seacock between where your discharge hose goes through the bulkhead, and the deck fitting. Not sure what access and space you have on your boat.
Replacing your system with a marine toilet would require adding a holding tank, and more plumbing, wiring, etc.
(edit to add) Just looked at a few youtube walkthru videos of 255's around 2012. The storage under the port side bow seat seems to have a one piece tub insert. How easily that could be removed would be key to how easily a macerator and through hull discharge could be added, as that would provide access, and space underneath.

 

[DennisG01]

Bill, I'm looking at the picture of your head again, and as Glacier mentioned, it's just a standard PP, not an "MSD" -- which would have pump out connections already there, on the LOWER portion, as opposed to that large screw cap used to empty the head into a land toilet. Are you 100% positive that you have a secondary holding tank and NO transfer pump anywhere? The reason I ask is that with your current set up, it's not going to "gravity drain" to the secondary holding tank. HOWEVER, the "pump out" could still be performed the way it is. Also, it's common to refer to the lower portion of that PP as a "holding tank"... just wondering if that terminology is what is confusing things?

Unless, the way the tubes/ hoses are... maybe it's functioning as an "overflow" drain, not a gravity drain?

 

[Capt Bill]

Glacierbaze,
Thank you for your insight. What you are saying makes sense, and now I think I was reading Grady's options list, and making up my mind that I have a 10 gal tank, when really, as you correctly pointed out, that was not one of their options. I couldn't imagine only a small porta potti with a deck pumpout, but that's what I got.
With the forward deckplate removed, I can get my camera in there and see the two hoses coming from the back of the toilet. They curve upward, and although I couldn't see very far, I'm sure they are going directly to the deck pumpout and vent. So now the question I will be researching today is can I even access the areas needed, to add the Y valve and install a macerator. I also like to replace that toilet, and I'm looking at the Dometic 976 as well. With no below deck holding tank, this seems to be the best option. (they also sell a 975 for a lot more money, but I don't see any difference in the specs; just the color of the tank section).

Dometic 976 Portable Toilet

Dometic 976 Portable Toilet - Powerful Flushing at the touch of a button without constant pumping or batteries

www.dometic.com

What model Grady do you have?

 

[Capt Bill]

Dennis, I just saw your post after I replied to glacierbaze. I'm sure I was confusing the holding tank terminology, and yes, you and glacierbaze are correct; it's just a PP to a deck fitting. I'm going to get on the boat in a while, and look at access to those areas. Not sure I have room to even add a macerator and valve to a thru-hull with seacock. May just replace the toilet and depend on pump-outs, or may just tell the ladies, there's a bucket!

 

[DennisG01]

OK, that all makes sense now, Bill. Thanks for looking into this further and clarifying. Now that we know, for sure, what you have, it's easier to move forward. I didn't click on that link in your post, but there are two sizes available (you probably already found this out, but just in case). Your current setup is the 2.5g holding tank. The other option is a 5g holding tank. Regradless if you have an old style PP or the "power flush" (which works, but don't get sucked into thinking it flushes like a home toilet... it doesn't!), the bottom sections are interchangeable - the top section (the water holding area) stays the same.

Offhand, I'd say the 5g version adds about 5" to the overall height - but double check the specs... and be sure you have enough headroom for that.

Now, I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but even the 2.5g version holds more than you think. You definitely won't come close to filling it up in a day or even two.

If you simply replace the toilet and depend on pump-outs, just know you have to stick with a PP style. Again, you probably already know this, but anything other than a PP would require a separate holding tank.

My opinion? The PP's work well. Keep it simple. Thousands and thousands and thousands of boaters and RV'ers use them all the time.

 

[glacierbaze]

My boat is a 228 Seafarer. Like I said above, the key to access, for you, is whether or not you have that tub in the port bow seat, and how removable is it.
The difference in prices for the 900 series is that some come with the mounting brackets, and some don't, and some have the MSD adapter, and some don't. You have to get the longer adapter for the 976 than the 972. The adapter just replaces the pour spout on top of the holding tank.
976 is 15 1/4" high.

I deleted the link to the adapter. When I clicked on it, my Amazon account was linked, and I wasn't sure if everyone could see all the sex toys I have ordered, or just me.
Just search Dometic 976 MSD adapter.

 

[Capt Bill]

The port and starboard insulated fish boxes are not removable liners, they're part of the moulded fiberglass hull liner, so no access there. I don't think adding a below-deck holding tank is in the cards, and it really doesn't matter, since the PP choices seem to be fine. In fact, I finally got around to actually lifting the lid on the PP today, and un-snapped the top half to look closer at the "tank". The whole PP is spotless, and the tank and water reservoir were clean as a new one and completely dry. It looks to have never been used, and that aligns with what the head compartment looked like when I bought the boat.

The whole boat was literally filthy dirty inside and out, and the head compartment looks like he used it for nothing but a storage bin, PFD's, dock lines, the flare kit, trash can and lots of other "stuff". With the boat being so trashed, and the head being clean as new, I doubt it's been used.

So I may keep it a pump-out only head, and I checked at I.R. marina today and they have pumpout service for $10, any size tank.
The other option I may choose, is to remove that PP, cap the hoses, and install a new PP that I can remove from the boat. We have an RV dump station plumbed to our septic, so it would be a simply job to empty a PP, rinse it, and put it back on the boat. That might be a better option than the pump out, IDK. What would you do?

 

[DennisG01]

Yes, that's about all you have to do to dump a PP yourself. FYI, you can pour it down any toilet.