Need a plan

[RussGW270]

Okay, decided to change the topic.... I need a plan, an idea of where to go.

So, going to share this, so you all can figure what "you" might do.

Please.. no life advice.. this is about the boat... heh

So, I went to run the engines last night. (I will post a pic.. I like my new tub).....I THINK the issue is, I need it deeper than 24". I will see. Going to raise it about 3 more inches. I think the motor can go 3 more inches deeper... we will see.

Anyway....

I bought this boat for 49k. With it, the last owner supposedly rebuilt the trailer for 2600. He sent me a $600 check when it shipped here to "pay for a new stereo and check the bilge pump" he said was being problematic.

Since then, I have spent (not counting the 2k to ship it to me and the insurance for this b.. rock..)

like $19,500 - ish.

New hardtop, fiberglass work, radar, electronics, etc..

So, in to it for like call it $69,000

Now.... the latest problem may be easy, not sure.. needed to walk away before I cut the entire boat into bite-sized pieces.. heh

The stbd engine is not peeing again. Now, yes.. going to try to submerge it another 2-3 inches... see if that is an issue, but all ports were under water, so.. not sure....lower ends and impellers rebuilt 3 times... were working fine a week or two ago prior to changing the oil etc. I did not touch anything whatsoever related to the water.

So, will see if 2-3 inches makes a difference... but, I am at the point or "I am done".. not mad any longer, just done.

So, a rebuild

Pros: a lot less expensive than re-power

Con: I do not trust anyone around me to do it without charging me 10k per engine and then no warranty... 2003 and 2004 engine.

Con: My luck.. I will get screwed and pay a lot of money for maybe a year if I am lucky.

Re-power:

Pro: Warranty.. warranty.. someone else does the work warranty

lol

Con: a LOT more expensive...
Con: No earthly idea of the monthly cost as, yes.. I would have to finance.


So.. a re-power. I am a State employee. I do not make a billion bucks a week... I have to finance. Now, my math tells me that 2 engines would be about the cost of a standard car.... so.. if my math is right, looking at payments of.. maybe 300 a month? Who here has financed a couple engines or has an idea of the cost per month? I figure worse case, 20k each... best case, if I went with what Skunk went with.. a couple 200 Zukes.. looking at like 14k each plus a couple thousand each for install etc... call it 35k?

No idea how the financing works.. ALL i care about is the monthly cost.

I also have no idea if they finance engines on a boat that is already financed.... if not, I am screwed there.

So.. that is where I am at.

The "Boat" is fine.. could use an electrical rewire some day.. but.. I have mostly fixed the trailer (needs to be adjusted but.. it works).. but the engines, I am just done....they were not taken care of.. they run great.. but this crap with the water cooling .. just the last straw. Tired of seeing people buy boats and be able to enjoy them, and I am stuck here jacking with this... so, need to figure out where I can go from here.

No, I am not going to troubleshoot this nightmare any longer. I am either going to pay someone to rebuild them from the ground up.. or I am going to sell them and buy 2 new ones.

Russ

 

[Legend]

I think I would give a capable Yamaha technician a shot at diagnosing your issue and then make the decision to either repower or repair. Often times Yamaha has a 5 year warranty which would give you the peace of mind that it sound like you need. Good luck

 

[RussGW270]

Yea, I do not mind taking it to someone.. but the peace of mind is what I want.. and around here, good techs are harder to find.. mostly "well, you're going to need blah blah blah"... if they even give you the time of day.

I'd rather be done with the whole thing at this point. Right now, just yakking as I cannot do anything on a Sunday.... as usual.

R

 

[RussGW270]

I guess I should make a positive note...

I set the plugs and gap so well that the dang engine turned over so fast when I turned the key, I did not know it had started heh.

Only issue is the stupid water pump again...so, go figure.

Again, had to walk away...will try a couple things this morning without a chainsaw close by lol

 

[Sparkdog118]

Is the motor getting hot? 3 inches won’t make a difference. Blow compressed ari backwards through the p hole. A small piece of trash can clog it in a heartbeat. The clogged p hole will not stop the engine from cooling correctly. If you see any steam Out the p hole, then the impeller is toast.

 

[family affair]

For you to sell or trade them, someone will need to determine what is wrong with them. Unless I missed something, any work done to them was rushed to fix what was perceived to be wrong. Water cooling isn't rocket science. A decent mechanic should be able to trouble shoot the issue and find all the issues to determine if the engine is worth rebuilding or even needs rebuilding - less than $500 for the pair I would think. Rebuilding is potentially throwing the baby out with the bath water and then adopting a red-head from God knows where. It introduces a lot more variables. For me, throwing money at the issue isn't the answer. Spending money on the specific problem is the solution.
New is an option, but I know I will be in deep and will need to keep her a long time to recoup the cost.
Good luck

 

[RussGW270]

Okay, I did not rush anything. I repaired it.

Please don’t assume I did it wrong or badly.

I’ll figure it out, thanks for the insight.

I’ll update later tonight with what I find. It could be as simple as something clogged, as Spark said.

Going to trace it backwards and see if I can get anything thru the hose.

 

[trapper]

Russ, "were working fine a week or two ago prior to changing the oil etc" The cooling system cannot go sideways by changing the oil as you well know. I do not think you are far away from a fix! Agree with Legend It needs to be gone over by a Yamaha technician and if you have to truck the beast some distance to find out, I believe it is worth it and just may save you making outboard payments into your retirement. After all your work you must be dam close to the finish line.

 

[bFransen]

I think we've all felt like you feel right now at some point. I feel that way about every time I'm facing a boat issue I don't understand or haven't tackled before and it looks like the price tag is high. You've put a lot into the boat. Like you, I'd be expecting to use it. In times like this, I feel like parking the boat in the back yard and doing something else with my time. To cope, I'll look at the boats that sat rotting away in the back yards in my area and it motivates me to fix whatever is wrong and not to waste something as cool as a boat.

One thought, a 2004 engine is old. I repowered my 2003 two years ago rather than rebuild. The engines may have resale value right now so if you can get them operational you can get some money for each. Or, just get them pumping water again and use the boat till they stop working. Some engines run forever. Some don't.

 

[RussGW270]

Agreed it is close, just need to walk away, get a new angle on the problem.

Rebuild is the way to go, just not with my current luck heh....but, in all honesty...the smarter move.

The plan has always been to get a tech to look it over, after I make sure it runs so they do not try to sell me a crock of “you need this and this”

So, once I locate someone I trust, and this runs again...will be taking it in before it goes out.

R

 

[RussGW270]

Btw, thank you all for taking the time to comment. ALL the input is good and appreciated.

I cannot type very well atm...old man syndrome and carpel tunnel is kicking in and I have to type with in finger heh

Random thought...was funny but eh.

Anyway, you are all right. I do not assume I messed up, but I also do not assume I did not, hence why the last repair I paid for because I assumed I did.

So, draining the tub now so I can move it and get in closer. I did weed eating till then, hence why one hand is shaking lol.

I think worse case, it is a simple water pump re-re-re-build heh....but may be more simple than that.

the engines themselves run fine, just exploring a lot of options. We sold the ranch last year and just paid off a really large electrical line bill so, I was thinking 300 a month for engines and peace of mind is a lot less than the 1000 we were paying and the 1000 a month we are spending to get it all working right.

That being said, I am not adverse to a rebuild, if I can locate someone I can trust to do the entire thing. I just want it to be right and looking at the “whole picture”....a re-power is not out of the question either.

So, thank you all, sincerely.

I am trying to clean house and chat about options and do yard work etc all at the same time

R

 

[Sdfish]

I'm with Legend. If you have good compression, a decent mechanic can address the cooling issue. I would not rebuild or replace until I I was sure that was looked at carefully.

 

[wspitler]

If you don't have the exhaust corrosion issue. Keep the engines! They are bullet proof even if they had been mistreated a bit in the past. Don't assume a tub will allow them to pee. The entire water pump housing needs to be submerged and if they don't overheat and have newer impellers, run them! Even replacement lower units are less expensive than new or used motors. If the compression is good , keep "em!!"

 

[RussGW270]

Confirmed water pump/ impeller.

Blew air back thru the engine and water came out. Started the engine, no water and after a few minutes temp alarm.

Just need to wait till next month and take it to someone to fix.....again.

In for a dime, will have them do a full performance evaluation.

Thanks @wspitler, the entire lower unit was submerged up to and including the anode. Here is a photo:



R

 

[Sparkdog118]

A lot of times when mechanics say they changed the water pump, all they changed is the impeller. The plastic housing warps sometimes letting air leaks into the system. The plates and the cups sometimes get sand scratches the wear the impeller out prematurely. Any small grooves in the plate will bring water pressure down more than you think. Sometimes they don’t even replace the key way. The impeller key has a habit of rusting away and the impeller is now all of a sudden spinning on the shaft freely and no water is pumping. Every year I recommend replacing the whole housing, o rings, plate, cup, and impeller. The best aftermarket kit is a sierra 18-3396-1 for your motor. The parts are quality. Other aftermarket pumps are junk. While replacing the pump, inspect the spring on the driveshaft seal under the seal cover. This is located under the water pump plate. They go bad approximately every 4 to 5 years. Electrolysis eats the springs of the seal and the rubber dries out. Then it is a Direct water supply to insert water into the gear case oil. It is a bad chain of events. Seals are cheap. So is a complete kit for the headaches it saves later. The shift seal is cheap also. Should be done every 3 to 5 years also. Just be sure to address the driveshaft seals. This forces the mechanic to remove the impeller key and wear plate. It is worth every minute of labor to dig into the driveshaft seal area.

 

[Sparkdog118]

Just a suggestion. Lower unit is easy to drop. Instead of dragging the boat for many miles, dropping the lower and taking it to a mechanic may be easier. Installing is not hard either. Could also save you some $. Would suggest new complete h20 pump kit, driveshaft seals, and shift seals. New oil, and a pressure test you should be good to go. Prop shaft seals hold up alot better than the driveshaft and the shift.

 

[RussGW270]

Oh, not as bad as I make it out to be. You are right. I can do the water pump then take it in, save the 400 bucks or more. I know I can do it right, just need to get a new kit and take it slow. Could use help holding the shaft when I re-seat it, that is what happened with the first one. I held the shaft and my buddy smashed the housing onto the impeller.

Okay, going to redo the entire water pump after I test the other engine....pray for me lol...

Then, if it all works, I have a possible lead on a texh in Temple or Waco...or may expand towards Houston. I do not mind traveling to get a good tech. Then, have them really go through it all and figure out what is in need of what.

Talking to you all via here, believe it or not, actually helps me feel better, heh. Sorry I come across as rude, I really do not mean to...but I dread saying anything as I have zero doubt this has turned into a running joke for folks. I just want to enjoy my Grady like you all and, to be honest...have stretch the finances trying to get there.
Anyway, will go order a new kit. I try to stick with oem on most stuff, but a couple things were just too darn good a deal to pass up...heh.

Thanks again guys.

Oh, on another note.... Lsquared stopped by yesterday and survived We did not get close, no worries, but he has a 282 and is moving up the road from me, so we hope to fish off my boat till his is down here....good luck with that, Larry lol.

R

 

[RussGW270]

Oh, I actually have new gear oil and stuff for the lower end. I did not use it since it had just been done, so will do the entire lower end again myself.

R

 

[Sparkdog118]

Lower unit is out

Lower unit is in the bench. Quick recap. 5psi to verify which seals are leaking. How much vacuum after I replace the seals to verify lower unit is sealed?

www.greatgrady.com

Check out this earlier thread. Has lots of very useful info for your project.

 

[RussGW270]

Awesome thread, thank you so much, Spark (and Blood...heh)

Breathing new life in me once again