Need advice Yamaha corrosion issue

[jip40]

I have 2002 F225's with 1,100 hours. About 2 months ago the port engine started to give me the overheat alarm when running at 600 rpm - didn't occur at 800 rpm or higher, engines running great at high rpm's. Took it to Yamaha dealer & showed them that alarm would go off after idling in gear for 10 minutes - shut it off and restart it would overheat in 1 minute.

Engines were due for 100 hour service so that was the first step - problem continued after that service. I was with the tech when he checked engine temperature with digital thermometer & temp showed 135 degrees when alarm was going off. Replaced temperature sensor - same problem existed. Tech & service manager suggested flushing engine with acid to clear out any salt buildup. I questioned them regarding possible corrosion service needed & was told that the acid flush would only be a couple of hours labor and is more often all that is needed.

Acid flush was completed and invoice states boat was sea trialed and problem was corrected.(Separate issue was that the invoice was in excess of $2,000) I took the boat out about a week later - it ran fine at high rpm's but at 600 rpm's overheat alarm activated after 30 minutes. I ran it at 800 rpm's for 1 1/2 hours and no problem. Now the dealership owner is trying to convince me that this issue is very common for 14 year old engines & 1,100 hours.

I did request that they scope the engine when lower unit was off for the acid wash. Tech told me that he reported that the results of the scope showed engine looked rough and was told by service manager that I didn't want to put a lot of money into engine because of high hours. My service file shows no reference to this and management says tech works on so many engines that he has confused it with a different engine.

I have read so many reports that initial sign of corrosion is overheating at low rpm. If any of you have any input, I would appreciate hearing it. I don't want to put a bunch of money into the engines if not necessary but, on the other hand $5,000 is a lot less than repowering. I have been averaging about 150 hours per year since I have had the boat and would like to get 5 more years out of them if possible

 

[Bayhouse]

Jeff, you have the very symptom of initial corrosion and it's not a question of if, rather when, it will happen on that model year engine. 1,100hrs is still VERY young for those engines so go ahead and get the corrosion issue fixed on both engines. You'll get a good chunk of it back when you sell the boat (or engines), otherwise the buyer will extract it from you. Keep the receipts to prove the work was done.

I re-powered my 2003 330 with 300 Zukes and LOVE the upgrade - but it wasn't cheap.

 

[seasick]

Overheating at low revs can be a sign of a bad water pump or commonly a bad (stuck open) poppet valve. Both should be checked.

 

[jip40]

Overheating at low revs can be a sign of a bad water pump or commonly a bad (stuck open) poppet valve. Both should be checked.

Both of your suggestions were checked and replaced at the 100 hour service.

Someone on THT suggested that 600 rpm is too low for idle in gear, it should be 750 rpm's - if you have 225's do you have any comments?

 

[jip40]

Jeff, you have the very symptom of initial corrosion and it's not a question of if, rather when, it will happen on that model year engine. 1,100hrs is still VERY young for those engines so go ahead and get the corrosion issue fixed on both engines. You'll get a good chunk of it back when you sell the boat (or engines), otherwise the buyer will extract it from you. Keep the receipts to prove the work was done.

I re-powered my 2003 330 with 300 Zukes and LOVE the upgrade - but it wasn't cheap.

I am considering 300 Zukes if I have to repower but I prefer not to spend the $ (or more correctly, my wife prefers not to spend the $)

I was told by someone on THT that 600 rpm's is too low should be 750 rpm's - do you happen to recall what in gear idle was on your original engines?

 

[Parthery]

Jeff - I think a quick check of the manual should show what rpm should be at in gear idle. I know on my 225 OX66 it's around 7-750.

It might be worth a second opinion too. Doesn't sound like a very high comfort level with the existing tech.

 

[jip40]

Jeff - I think a quick check of the manual should show what rpm should be at in gear idle. I know on my 225 OX66 it's around 7-750.

It might be worth a second opinion too. Doesn't sound like a very high comfort level with the existing tech.

Hey Brian -

Never entered my mind to check the manual, should have been first thing I did.

Service guide has rpm range from 650 to 750, 650 would probably show on display as 6 which is what it shows - so probably ok.

Had a lot of good feedback on THT. I am going to go ahead with exhaust corrosion repair and oil pump replacement - it's either pay for it now or pay when I go to sell the boat.

BTW boat is back in Carrabelle as of last week - I've got a real good independent tech that will do the work for me - I worked with him for 3 years before moving boat to the keys.

 

[seasick]

I have read other posts in different chat rooms about F225 overheating at low revs and although some suggest it is related to the corrosion situation, many who reportedly 'fixed' the overheat alarm either changed impeller, poppet or t-stats ( or all of the above). I personally haven't seen low speed overheat issues with motors that ended up needing the overhaul for the exhaust corrosion. I have seen motors blow up though when water got into the oil.
So perhaps someone can explain why the corrosion condition can cause low speed overheating.

 

[Fishtales]

There may be symptoms associated with the exhaust repair, I have not really heard of any but the failure mode is catastrophic if the plate at the base of the power head is breached.
Scoping and some teardown may be you best bet. Given the age of the motor and hours it sure sounds like the issue. Good luck. Not cheap, but if done properly and before damage occurs the motors should be fine.

 

[Parthery]

Jeff,

Didn't realize you were moving the boat back. Did you run it up or have it trucked?

Happy Holidays to you guys....

 

[Harpoon]

Your mechanic is an inept bonehead. 2002 F225's.... why didn't he drop the lower units and take a look in the beginning. Perhaps he wanted to waste a bunch of billable hours first. I'd take him to small claims court for the 2K.

Otherwise, those engines are just getting broken in. I'd find a mechanic that has done a bunch of these services. They love these winter projects. I fish regularly on a Parker that had the exhaust done 500 hours ago. your probably looking at 5-6K to have dependable motors for the next 1000 hours.

 

[max366]

One other thing to check- block corrosion where the thermostat is mounted. That vintage engine will have the same design as my '04s, which means the copper tstat can corrode the block to the point where a hole forms and salt water is squirted into the air intake. I posted about this a few other times. I may be a broken record on this, but while you're digging into the engine, it worth checking.

 

[jip40]

Jeff,

Didn't realize you were moving the boat back. Did you run it up or have it trucked?

Happy Holidays to you guys....

Brian

Linda never liked the marina in the keys, she is really partial to St George Island. Combine that with a lot of wind in the keys, except mid summer & then it is brutally hot, and the fishing has dropped off significantly.

Had two good trips while down there. In April I ran the boat to Bimini for a week and in July, my son, grandson & I went to Key West and the Dry Tortugas for another week.

I ran it back - it was 508 miles and I did it with three overnights in Ft Myers Beach, Tarpon springs and Steinhatchee. Only bad leg was from Steinhatchee to Carrabelle - it was 5'-6' beam seas pretty much all the way. I did the run by myself and it turned out to be good experience.

Have a Happy New Year

 

[mmiela]

I had no over heating or any other symptoms of corrosion issue. I researched the issue my self and had my mechanic take a look at the and he found the starting of the corrosion. I ended up replacing the exhaust as a preventative measure. Mine is a 2003 F225 and it was not matter of if but when I would have engine issues.

Get that boat to a qualified tech and have them scope it. My guy did the work for $2700 for the exhaust.

 

[Bayhouse]

Jeff, you have the very symptom of initial corrosion and it's not a question of if, rather when, it will happen on that model year engine. 1,100hrs is still VERY young for those engines so go ahead and get the corrosion issue fixed on both engines. You'll get a good chunk of it back when you sell the boat (or engines), otherwise the buyer will extract it from you. Keep the receipts to prove the work was done.

I re-powered my 2003 330 with 300 Zukes and LOVE the upgrade - but it wasn't cheap.

I am considering 300 Zukes if I have to repower but I prefer not to spend the $ (or more correctly, my wife prefers not to spend the $)

I was told by someone on THT that 600 rpm's is too low should be 750 rpm's - do you happen to recall what in gear idle was on your original engines?

I'm pretty sure it was in the 600 range, 750 seems way too high for me. They may have started up that high, but normal was closer to 600.

Yes, new power was more money, but I got decent $$ selling the old engines and took a bunch of old systems off the boat (e.g., controllers for tower station) that simplified the whole setup. New FBW and digital controls puts a lot more information at your finger tips. I run the boat from NJ to FL for the winter and value the additional info available to me.

 

[Legend]

Get them fixed asap. My 04 with 1,000 hours had the corrosion identified during a routine water pump change and while breaking down the engines for the repair they found the power head base badly corroded ...6 k repair went to 20K plus repair. Have to decide by Monday whether to repower or repair. Can't believe that Yamaha did not address this flaw in a responsible way.

 

[Another Distraction]

I wouldn't put $ into F225's unless you never plan on selling the boat....which isn't likely. Swap them out for used 2008+ F250's.