Need Education on Trim Tabs in Chop

SwampGrizz

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Hello all,
I need some education in the use of trim tabs and motor trim in choppy water. I need to understand the dynamics of how the hull takes the chop. I have a 228G Seafarer with 200 HPDI. Assume I'm heading straight into a moderate chop. Do I need to trim her such that the bow is lower or higher? Would I use the trim tabs or the motor trim or both? I know that there are a lot of variables here, but I want to learn how to trim her out such that I get as comfortable and efficient ride as possible. Am I asking the right questions? Are there any other books or source material that will help? Any help here is greatly appreciated in advance.

Thanks,
SwampGrizz
 

Curmudgeon

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Here's what I do with my Tournament 225G, I don't have SV2, and each time is slightly different because conditions are different each time out:

Once in the vicinity of cruise for conditions, I'll trim the motor up as much as feasible, may be only a little, may be to the normal cruise 'sweet spot", as that has the greatest positive effect on fuel mileage (flow actually measured). If the ride (banging into the chop) isn't satisfactory, I'll extend tabs with 1 sec burps to lower the nose until a) the ride gets worse, or b) the bow starts to 'plow'. If tabs are going to have a positive effect it will usually do so within 3 sec (remember, my boat). I'll also frequently change something looking for the 'sweet' spot for conditions. The idea is to lower the nose so the bow 'slices' the chop as opposed to banging into it further back on the keel, too far and you 'plow', which isn't good. Sometimes you can improve the ride, sometimes not, depends on conditions and load. SV2 is a different animal, but the principle remains the same ... :wink:
 

Tabman

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SwampGrizz,

Below is a Trim Tab 101 I wrote to help people get the hang of using them.

Curmudgeon has some very good points, especially using them in short bursts.

Usually trimming the bow down a bit will smooth out the ride when running into a chop. This allows the sharp forward sections of the boat to cut the waves instead of the flatter after sections pounding into them.

Tom McGow
Bennett Marine

Getting and Staying Trimmed

All boats assume different fore to aft attitudes at different throttle settings and vary in sensitivity to lateral weight distribution.

A boat’s optimum running attitude is determined by the operator. While some people may define optimum running attitude as the highest possible speed for a given amount of engine RPMs, others desire the best possible fuel economy, yet others may be trimming the boat to get just the right mix of speed and wake (such as for waterskiing.)

Optimum running attitude is when the boat is running to the operator’s satisfaction for the given operating conditions. There are as many optimum running attitudes as there are boats and boat owners

A good way to determine a boats optimum running angle (see side bar Optimum Running Attitude) is to run the boat lightly loaded at full speed in calm water. During this test observe the boat’s bow in relation to the horizon. Most boats run at or near their optimum attitude under these conditions. This should give you a feel for the appearance of the wake and bow spray when running at an efficient attitude. Note that not all boats will achieve their optimum running attitude under these conditions. Some boats will benefit from extra lift even when running at their maximum throttle settings. If you feel the boat will benefit from added bow down trim when running at speed start with the trim tabs fully up and deflect the trim tabs in short bursts. Be alert to changes in the boats handling, as you bring the bow down. Observe any changes in RPMs and/or speed. Adjust power trim if applicable.

Indications of Running Untrimmed
When a boat is running untrimmed the bow spray will exit the sides of the boat far aft. The stern wave (wake) is high and curling like a breaker on the beach. The rooster tail is high and close to the stern. The engine is laboring and the ride tends to be less smooth.

Indications of Running Trimmed
The bow spray moves forward and is flung not as far from the boat. The wake diminishes in height, as the rooster tail flattens out and moves away from the boat. The engine is operating under less load as evidenced by the tachometer and speed as well as sounding “less strained”.

One Step at a Time
The key to obtaining optimal results from trim tabs is to operate them in short “bursts” and let the boat react before making another adjustment. The amount of time between corrections is influenced by the size of the trim tabs and the boat’s speed. This will help avoid overtrimming or ending up with one tab too far down when correcting lateral trim. You will quickly become acquainted with a boat’s particular traits.

Take Off
Properly sized trim tabs can significantly reduce the time needed to get up on plane. They also allow a boat to keep its bow down and stay on plane at lower speeds.
As the throttle is advanced the stern of the boat begins to squat, lifting the bow. As the boat accelerates, push the bow down position of the helm control in short bursts. The boat reacts by the stern lifting, the bow coming down, speed increasing, and reduced engine laboring. If you over do it and deflect the tabs too far the boat will end up overtrimmed. When over trimmed, the steering becomes “over sensitive” and wants to pull off course to port or starboard. If this occurs, operate the control “bow up" until the desired attitude is established.

Getting the Most from Power Trim
Adjust the trim tabs to achieve the desired running attitude. Then use the power trim to position the propeller thrust parallel to the water flow. If necessary, re-adjust the trim tabs to fine tune the attitude. By observing the boat’s speed and engine RPMs the best combination of trim tabs and power trim will be apparent. Trim tab angle indicators and a power trim angle indicator are particularly useful in duplicating effective settings.

Trimming to Sea Conditions
When running into a head sea you want to trim the bow down so the sharp forward sections of the boat do their work cleaving the waves. This provides the most comfortable ride and minimizes stress on the boat (and passengers). In a following sea the tabs should be fully retracted for maximum steering response.

Correction of a List
The normal control setup for trim tabs operates in relation to the desired changes in trim and not the actual movement of the tabs. Therefore, do not think about what the tabs are doing, but rather on the control and what you want the boat to do. As above, make the corrections in bursts and allow the boat to settle to the new settings. You may find it easier to correct the boat’s fore and aft attitude before you correct the side to side trim.

Correction of Porpoising
Operate the tabs in very short bursts of about half a second. Continue until porpoising subsides. The objective is to have only a very slight amount of tab deflection, just the amount needed to cure the up and down motion of the bow.
 

SwampGrizz

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Tabman - You Are The Man!

Tabman,
Thanks! I am going to copy this and file it away for future study.

SwampGrizz
 

Doc Stressor

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I find that my 226 requires very little trim in a head sea. Sometimes I'll drop the bow 1 bar to smooth out a one foot chop. Anything rougher than that causes the boat to run wet.

The SV2 hull doesn't ride on top of the waves at high speed like a Regulator or Yellowfin hull. They ride best just above the minimum planing speed, which depends on just how rough it is. I find that the ride improves if I drop the leeward side of the bow a little in a quartering head sea. But don't try that if the seas are really big.

Tabman's general suggestions are of course spot on.
 

GulfSea

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Great posts above. I start out trimming the engine till' it sounds stress free. Then tab the keel down till' it rides best, then re-adjust engine trim accordingly.
 

Tucker

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GulfSea said:
Great posts above. I start out trimming the engine till' it sounds stress free. Then tab the keel down till' it rides best, then re-adjust engine trim accordingly.

This is what I've been doing but according to tabman this is wrong and you're suppose to apply tab first then engine trim. Assuming I'm reading his procedure correctly. Good thread, cheez I'm always messing with engine trim & tabs. It'll be nice to have a procedure to follow.
 

Curmudgeon

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but according to tabman this is wrong and you're suppose to apply tab first then engine trim.

Stipulating my boat has no problem getting on plane and testing was in no more than a moderate chop, I tried several different combinations and sequences while referring to a flow meter. Engine trim had the greatest effect on efficiency, without question, which is why I find that 'sweet spot', first. Then I tab for comfort if the ride isn't acceptable without tabs, something I won't know until the engine is trimmed for conditions ... :wink:
 

Tucker

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Not sure what you own Cur, but these dang Sailfish are bow heavy. I have to engine trim (about 3 notches on the trim gauge) until the prop slips to get the greatest efficiency. When applying tab the props begin to break loose. I guess each boat is different.
 

Curmudgeon

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GGC, I have an older T-225 bracket boat. With mine, I'm past best efficiency (the sweet spot) at a point the prop starts to slip. As a rule, if my prop slips due to waves/swells, I'm not going fast enough for any trim to make much of a difference. But, yes, every boat and loading is different ... :wink:
 

Doc Stressor

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The general rule is to trim the engine in when getting on plane. Don't deploy the tabs at all. Then trim the engine out until the torque steer disappears and then continue until just before the prop begins to ventilate. That will depend on your speed and sea conditions. Then begin to deploy the tabs as Tabman described. There is a balance between engine trim and tab deployment that you just need to figure out on your own. Check your rpm as you make each adjustment. Ideally, you want the highest rpm that you can get at a give throttle setting without causing ventilation.

You can easily over think this without really getting too much real benefit.

Most V hulls need to tab the bow down to starboard since propeller torque causes them to list to post. The SV2 hulls with single engines are particularly bad about this.