Need to Troubleshoot Front Bilge

[Blaugrana]

For a 2000 Seafarer 228, is there a way to tell which fuse is for the front bilge pump?

I know the two wires of interest are the brown/ red and brown/ black. Right now, the switch lights up when I turn it on but hear nothing from the bilge pump so I need to figure if the pump is done, fuse blew, or a wire issue. Given my recent issue with the crossover cable not being connected, I am curious if there is another loose cable.

Any recommendations on what I should replace it with? Debating on a separate float switch or all built in one. Few pics attached

Been going through all of the bilge pumps postings recently and they have been very helpful...

thanks in advance!

 

[seasick]

When you are using the switch at the helm or DC panel, that is separate from the feed for the automatic operation of that bilge pump assuming it has both manual and automatic. The fact that the light on the switch turns on means that there is 12v at the panel. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is 12 volts coming out of the switch.
If the pump is both auto and manual, trigger the float switch and see if the pump turns on. If it does, the pump is working. I don't expect it to work though. The next step is to get take a look at the connections to the pump for corrosion or a broken wire. Note that the ground wire is as important as the power wire. If any of the connections looks dodgy, redo them and test for voltage

 

[Lite Tackle]

When you are using the switch at the helm or DC panel, that is separate from the feed for the automatic operation of that bilge pump assuming it has both manual and automatic. The fact that the light on the switch turns on means that there is 12v at the panel. It doesn't necessarily mean that there is 12 volts coming out of the switch.
If the pump is both auto and manual, trigger the float switch and see if the pump turns on. If it does, the pump is working. I don't expect it to work though. The next step is to get take a look at the connections to the pump for corrosion or a broken wire. Note that the ground wire is as important as the power wire. If any of the connections looks dodgy, redo them and test for voltage

The same manual you found the diagram posted has a table of devices, amp rating and wire colors. This will identify which fuse is for front and which is stern pump.

 

[SkunkBoat]

To add to Seasicks thoughts..

These bilge pumps have 2 sources of power. The switch is the "manual" source. It uses the circiut breaker below the switch, not a fuse.
The float switch is the "auto" source. It gets power thru an inline fuse near the battery.

When a manual switch doesn't turn on the pump, the first thing to do is lift the float switch and see if it causes the pump to run
(for the float switch pictured, twist the wires going into the blue housing to lift the float..)

If the pump runs from the float, then the pump is good and your problem is isolated to the manual switch, circiut breaker, or connections.

If the pump doesn't run in any case, then unsnap it from the base and look for junk jamming it. try turning the impellor by hand. If it doesn't move, you need a pump.

 

[Bdsp1234]

Your fuse for the forward bildge is transom mounted to the right of the perko switch. You’ll be able to pick it out by the red and brown wires

 

[Blaugrana]

Thanks for the feedback. Plan to troubleshoot this tomorrow. I also found the fuse by the battery and the specs in the manual.

If needed, for replacement, what’s the thoughts on the switch w/o case vs the one with the case? Going to buy Rule and not sure if the holes for the existing case will match up.

Noticed a few recent installs went with the ones without the case.

 

[Blaugrana]

Following up to this thread, I believe I confirmed that its the bilge pump that is the problem.

- Twisted the wires to the float and the bilge did not turn on
- Tested the voltage to the switch when the circuit is open and had 12v
- Tested the voltage leaving the switch when the circuit is closed and dropped to just over 10v

Based on the above, I assume the pump needs to be replaced.

When I opened the switch panel, I noticed that some of the black wires were disconnected to a few switches (Livewell Pump, Water Pressure). Is there any reason why it would be disconnected? I connected 1 and did not do the other as it resulted in the switch lighting, which is my only 1. Is that going to draw on the battery? Or is that how it is supposed to be? It's nice to have it lit up, but none of my others do.

Back to replacing the bilge pump.
1. Per my manual, the bilge pump and switch have 5A fuse. The new one calls for 7.5A. Do I just replace the fuse by the battery switch or do I need to replace the breaker as well?
2. When I take the screws out to put in the new unit, do I need to put a sealant in the holes when I screw back in? If so, what do you recommend using?

Thanks again...

 

[SkunkBoat]

the black wires on switches are the ground for the lighted switch. If its lit then yes it is drawing on the battery. Old lighted switches had incandescent bulbs and draw a decent amount when you add them up. New switches with led lighted switches barely draw anything.

There are switches that only light when they are in ON position and there are "backlit" switches which are always lit ..(well, when the House battery is on or in some cases when the key is on..or in some cases only when the Nav/Anchor switch is on...depends on how they were wired.)

Check the breaker for a label to see the actual rating. If its a 5A you might still get away with it. It might pop too often when you use the manual switch...maybe not...

The wood in the pad is probably already really wet after 20 years but some silicone or 4200 wouldn't hurt.

 

[seasick]

It may be the pump but you tested the 12 volt feeds only and not the ground circuit.
The 2 volt drop at the switch is a lot, 20%. That means that you either have a high load as could be the case with a stalled pump motor or you have excessive voltage drop due to resistance. My concern is that the drop is at the switch and I am not so sure I would expect it there. Measure the voltage at the output of the switch like you did AND at the input of the switch. with the switch on. They should be the same.If not the breaker or switch is bad.

Since you are leaning towards a bad pump, Cut its wires, remove it and connect it directly to the neg and pos at the battery and confirm it doesn't work.

 

[Blaugrana]

Ok, just tested it all again....

Switch open: 12.55v

switched closed:
- Before switch: 10.24
- After switch: 10.23

Assuming it’s most likely the pump??? Haven’t cut it yet to do the final test

Looks like my breaker is only 5 amps, so I need to get a 7.5amp when I replace the pump.

Also learned my livewell switch isn’t getting any voltage but not going to deal with that until end of year.

 

[seasick]

As Skunkboat said, try the existing breaker and see if it trips when used. It might be fine. By testing, I mean run the pump with water in the bilge for as long as it typically would be run. The auto feature is another story. I would up the inline fuse for that feed depending on what is in the fuse holder now. It may already be sized adequately

 

[Blaugrana]

Ok - So I will be replacing this tomorrow and have a few questions.

1. As of now, I do not see where either the float and bilge pump were spliced/ connected to the wires running to the switch and battery. Is there any concern with where I cut the wires then? Thinking of cutting in a way to leave more play to make the job easier.

2. When replacing the pump, should I replace the base or just snap the new one into the existing base? Old base looks bad but not sure if I can use the existing holes after removing the screws

3. Prior to starting the work, is removing the fuse from the float wire and leaving the manual switch off sufficient? Or do I need to remove everything from the terminals ?

 

[seasick]

removing the fuse and leaving manual switch off is OK. At some point before you splice and button up, you want to check for voltage at the two leads, auto and manual.
Leave as much wire as possible. This won't be your last pump replacement
If the base is the same as far as the pump connection goes, use it and same the new base in case of a problem later.
If you replace the base now, you should use both screws. Plug up the unused old hole with some sealant, install the base screw in one of the holes and then drill a shallow hole for the second.

 

[Blaugrana]

Thanks...

When removing the screws, my assumption is that filling the old hole up is more precautionary. Reason I ask is because the boat is in the water and I want to make sure unscrewing it won’t result in a bigger headache.

 

[Sparkdog118]

If you don’t fill the old holes, the core material could rot. I mount my pump and float on a removable plate that is bolted to the transom. Like an L bracket. Makes it easier to remove the whole unit for rewiring or replacement.

 

[SkunkBoat]

The pad is just a small piece of wood glassed over. Its only there for mounting the pump. It is not structural to the boat. Just don't use longer screws!
If the holes are loose you can move it over a bit. The screws should be able to drill themselves in. No need to predrill. A little silicone certainly won't hurt.

 

[Blaugrana]

Successfully replaced both devices and it went smoothly overall except the piece that both items were attached to. I was thinking they adhered the piece to the hull and just used small screws to attach the pump and switch. Unfortunately, they were about 1in screws used to connect the pump to the piece and then to the hull. Not a big deal but just had to get new screws as the ones I bought were not long enough.

The other issue is that I really jammed the outflow to the hose. Same size as the previous one but was really snug and won’t be able to remove without breaking. My plan is to replace the hoses in the off-season anyways with smooth hoses.

Thanks everyone for your help and support.

 

[seasick]

The hoses like out arteries get hardened with age Usually you can't get the old one off unless you slice it.
In a pinch, you can use a heat gun to soften an old hose to help get it reconnected