need trailer brake help

[RussGW270]

hey guys, so auto parts store guy... unless he can type in the make model year of a "vehicle"... he has no idea what brake parts it uses.. so, I am here with my surge brakes and trying to figure out what to buy for it.

Here are photos.. not sure if we can glean the numbers on the photo.

All I can glean from the brakes is Kodiak CMB-12-o6 a 12" rotor brake system, but cannot figure out exactly what is comparable to replace it with.

I "think" the rotors are okay, but more than happy to replace all four, but right now, focusing on the pads, calipers etc, but not sure what parts they use.

Anyone have an idea?

Thanks!

Russ

 

[glacierbaze]

I guess the first question is what are you wanting to replace, pads or the assembly?
That CMB number is for the 'caliper mounting bracket'. Unless you can figure a Kodiac system that it is specific to, and work from there to figure out the number for the pads, you're probably out of luck on a Sunday at the auto parts store. There is a part number on the caliper, on the back side of the cylinder, right between those 2 bleeder valves. Call Trailer Parts Superstore in the morning. 1 800 453 7379.
Can you remove a pad to see if it has a number on the plate? It is not likely to be there. At this point, you can see the pad, how close is it worn down to the backing plate?

 

[glacierbaze]

Who paid the trailer guy in Florida all the money, you or the seller? Somebody should have an invoice with parts numbers on it.

 

[Ky Grady]

If your rotors are grooved/ridged, you need to resurface or replace, hard to tell which from pic. As glacier said, reach out to a trailer company as they will be more likely to be able to have replacement parts specifically for trailers, more so than an auto parts place. Google Kodiak brakes and you should find what you need. You've got most of the info already, give a Kodiak dealer a call and ask what pads go with your 12" brakes, then you may be able to cross reference with auto parts store to find a suitable replacement.

 

[DennisG01]

Those calipers look practically new. Is there something you're seeing that I'm not (in the photo)? If they're decent, you would just be throwing money away by replacing them. The rotors may/may not be past resurfacing - can't tell from a picture. How much of a "lip" is there around the edge?

Is the system functioning? Meaning, do the brakes do their job? You may just need to resurface/replace and put a new set of pads on there. This is might be easier than you're thinking.

etrailer.com is an easy source for this stuff. Boat trailer brakes are pretty simple - there's only a few styles so it's usually easy to find what you need. If you can't find single components (sometimes they just have sets), you may be able to find single components locally - any boat shops nearby? Try a NAPA, too - they'll be better than the typical auto parts store... at those places, if they're computer doesn't tell them exactly what to do they'll look at you like a deer in headlights.

Ask a local auto garage about resurfacing - they can point you in the right direction.

 

[RussGW270]

Okay, I pulled everything off one wheel. The rotors are 12" Kodiak rotors.

The brake pads are also Kodiak.

The problem I see is that I have zero way of knowing the weight of each axle, i.e. is it a 3500lb or higher? I cannot assume, but... now comes the hard part.. determining what locked the brakes. The front pad had to be hammered out, it was so stuck. My first assumption is there was air in the line, but that is an assumption till I try to bleed them, which I am not going to do till I get a 2nd pair of hands and figure out how the hell to bleed this. Normally, there is a slot for a screwdriver or something to get the brakes going.. not sure where that is.. so will be a few to figure all that out.

I also want to remove the other 4 brakes.

Now, to look up what can be replaced....and whether the rotors need to be respun.

R

Who paid the trailer guy in Florida all the money, you or the seller? Somebody should have an invoice with parts numbers on it.

lol.. I have the invoice...but you cannot read the writing. The guy that sold me the boat paid for it all, felt guilty that it was broken. I will call the FL place tomorrow, but not much we can do....not like I will be taking it to FL to get warranty work. Maybe he will send me a replacement part though. We will see.

For now, I have pictures, here.

 

[RussGW270]

@DennisG01 agreed, the calipers look good. The brake pads are totally new but shot. I am thinking the brake lines need to be bled and the actuator needs to be tested.

Just want to see who around here carries the right brake pads and if these guys USED the right ones. There is no way around the fact, new or not, they did a shoddy job OR.. the actuator picked a bad time to lock up.

The back of the pad says KTC 7600, and I can google that and it comes back with a 225 model Kodiak pad, but not KTC 7600. I found the transportation certificate for that unique identifier.. but.. heh

Sorry, having fun, finally, getting all this sorted out.

Part of me wants to replace the entire dang trailer, but.. I will figure out EXACTLY what the trailer is and has and then I will have a plate made for it with the VIN so it is never a question again... lol..I do it right

R

 

[glacierbaze]

While you have the wheel apart, look for a number on the axle hub. To determine weight rating of your axle, someone is going to ask your lug pattern, like 6 on 5 1/2. On a 6 lug, you measure 2 opposite holes, center to center.
I agree, calipers "look" good, better that most. Make sure the pistons move freely. Do you have a big ag supply store locally? They are usually a good source of trailer parts.

 

[glacierbaze]

225 pads match the caliper number, 7600 may be a part # for the backing plate. Since you have 2 different looking pads in each caliper, they probably have different #'s, but the set is 225.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...i39j0i10j33i160j0i13i30j0i8i13i30.MADU_Hp-B5c

 

[Ky Grady]

Do all your rotors look like that or just the one. If it's the single, almost like the caliper piston got hung and smoked the one pad. If they all are bad, then it's back to the actuator.

Another thought!!

What did/do you tow with? Ideally your trailer needs to be level when attached to tow vehicle. If you are towing in a bow down stance, truck squatted, all the weight is on the front axle and in essence you are dragging your brakes because the trailer is heading downhill and applying the surge brakes all the time.

 

[RussGW270]

All really good input. I am going to look at all of those. As typical on this boat, there is zero information on this actuator. I find it interesting that the entire boat is pulled by an actuator that only has 3 bolts attached to the trailer frame.

I also find it difficult to bleed the line when I cannot locate a model number or i fo on how to trip the actuator. Generally, there is a “port” to use leverage to “pump” the actuator when bleeding the thing.

I pull with a f-150 and I have air bags on and believe the trailer is level, but you gave me a really good thing to test. I may be lifting it too far or not enough.

I have a weight distribution hitch that I may need to install now.

Thanks! Will work on getting new pass first, then install the wd hitch, then see what it does and only bleed the lines if it needs it.


Russ

 

[glacierbaze]

“Thanks! Will work on getting new pass first, then install the wd hitch, then see what it does and only bleed the lines if it needs it.”

Always bleed, just for peace of mind, to know that it is done correctly. Use the one man, tube in a jar method, if you don’t have a helper

 

[DennisG01]

Looks like a Titan actuator. Just going from memory, but I could've sworn there would be a model number on it. Possibly on that roller cover?

No, not all acuators have the MC pin accessible to put a screwdriver on to compress it. In that case, take a 4'-ish 2x4 and stand it up in front of the coupler, right against the front edge (where the ball goes). Wrap the safety chains around the 2x (sometimes you need to put a screw through the chian into the 2x) and then push the top of the 2x towards the rear of the trailer.

You could also lock the emergency brake and all wheels should lock up. If there's air in the system, though, that may not happen. Does the MC have fluid in it?

Is there currently no VIN plate on the trailer? Sometimes they're on the inside part of the frame.

Don't worry about the 3 bolts - it's fine.

 

[RussGW270]

I am taking a break atm and will start again in a few hours. While it made me mad at first because I have zero info on the actuator, I am actually having fun as I enjoy improving things heh.

Titan? That gives me something to research.

Sorry, getting some food and then will go out and get more pictures and answer more questions.

Russ

 

[glacierbaze]

Titan model 10
Model 10 Surge Brake Actuator
Drop, 2-5/16 Ball Coupler, Zinc Plated (for aluminum trailers)
Part Number: 1200250



Reverse Lockout Valve (solenoid)
Allows you to backup with surge brakes
Part Number: 1203760

I don't see any wires on your reverse solenoid.

Master Cylinder for Model 10 & 20 Surge Brake Actuators
Part Number: 1201000

 

[RussGW270]

Glacer, you are my hero....and not one of those wierdo heros that jump tall buildings or something...I am talking super-duper-de-freakin-lux hero!

Lol

 

[RussGW270]

Okay, I have disc brakes, not drum brakes, so they must have converted it? On etrailer.com they state you would need part yep....this is what I see:

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Titan/T4749501042.html

And there is the reverse lockout as well.

I think, to keep the truck level and the boat level, I need the weight distribution hitch but, I need to remove that part and make sure the surge and the master cylinder are even working.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

Also looking at these brake pads.:

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Kodiak/K225CP.html

Need to make sure they properly converted the drums to rotors.

The biggest issue is not knowing what the actual axle weights are. Everything is a guess without those, albeit educated one.

R

 

[DennisG01]

In the first pic of your coupler, it looks like you have the reverse lockout solenoid. Also, it appears you have a 5-pin connector? The 5th pin (normally blue, but if someone modified it could be anything) indicates disc brakes/lockout solenoid. Whether it's working, or not, depends... if when backing up the brakes go on nice and hard, it's not working.
Quick check... when 12V is applied to the 5th pin (make sure power is grounded), you should faintly hear the solenoid click. Sometimes the ground wire on the trailer side is the issue.

 

[RussGW270]

Okay, in order to get this fixed before next weekend, I spent 108 bucks for two sets of brake pads... so, they will be here Thursday.

Let's hope the rest of the parts are still good. They also sent over info on how to bleed these things.. will see if it matches what I have.. heh.. if not, I am sure youtube has something now that I know what I am looking for.

R

 

[RussGW270]

In the first pic of your coupler, it looks like you have the reverse lockout solenoid. Also, it appears you have a 5-pin connector? The 5th pin (normally blue, but if someone modified it could be anything) indicates disc brakes/lockout solenoid. Whether it's working, or not, depends... if when backing up the brakes go on nice and hard, it's not working.
Quick check... when 12V is applied to the 5th pin (make sure power is grounded), you should faintly hear the solenoid click. Sometimes the ground wire on the trailer side is the issue.

That was exactly what I was just telling my wife. Best case, we bleed the lines and all is well, but the most expensive aspect is the surge brake actuator itself. That is probably fine, so that leaves the master cylinder and/or the backup lockout. The likelihood of both is slim, unless it was a cascade failure, but if I were a betting guy, I would say the backup lockout would be the culprit.

if not bleeding.

Either way, the lockout is like $48 bucks and the new master cylinder is like $182.

After that, an entire new brake system.

That being said, I can guarantee I will at least call the place that redid the brakes and ask why 2600 was spent and it still had the old master cylinder and lockout.... that $220 would, to me, seem to be a must replace if you are spending that kind of freaking money.

R