Newbie in need of boat buying advice - considering Grady

[grey2112]

So, here we are. Almost one and a half years into our boating experience and we're already looking at an upgrade. The story so far:

Wife and I back in November of 2011 decided we wanted to get into boating, mostly for fishing and exploring our area - we live in New Port Richey, FL - central gulf coast near Tampa/Clearwater. We wanted an all-around good "first boat" at a reasonable price, that could take us many places - we thought the majority of our excursions would be simply trailering the boat to a ramp (we bought a new F-150 with a V6 for better mpg, and it tows about 5800 pounds, which we though would always be enough), taking it out a few miles, doing some inshore stuff, lake excursions, up a few wide rivers, etc. So we ended up buying a 2003 Key West 196 Bayreef. It had a power pole, 150hp Johnson 2-stroke, and we added a GPS Minnkota trolling motor, Humminbird SI/DI 1198c fishfinder/GPS, VHF radio, bimini top, LED lights, etc. All told spent about $18,000 when all is said and done with upgrades, initial boat/trailer cost, etc.

Now, after 1.5 years, things are . . . . . evolving.

We've discovered that:

1 - We like fishing further offshore (grouper, snapper, etc. - and the times we've been in the Keys we've wanted to go out further to get dolphin, etc.) - but our boat is not capable of going to far out unless on VERY calm days. The wife is 46 and doesn't like getting banged and battered around in chop - I can take it better, but I'm not getting any younger either and I can foresee a time where it will bother me as well. Running a 19 foot open bayboat/center console in rough conditions isn't fun. We've had it out 25 miles offshore, but it was a very rare calm/smooth day. Our inshore/flats/lake fishing is now almost nil - just don't care for it that much.

2 - I got into SCUBA diving and spearfishing, and it is a tight fit to get 2 divers and the wife on the boat. I'd like to be able to take a total of 3-4 divers out and have room on board for gear, landing speared fish (AJ, Cobia, etc.) Plus the ability to go out further to wrecks offshore without having to go on "perfect" days would be nice.

3 - The wife mentioned how nice it would be for us to go out (either far or close in) and spend the night on a boat - so having the room to lay out an air mattress under a canopy, or have a berth and a head or portapotty would be nice. Some room for a campstove so we can cook. Just the two of us. She also has a dream of taking the boat out to the Dry Tortugas from Key West, as well as the Bahamas from Ft. Lauderdale.

4 - Realizing I needed more towing power from my truck, I just traded it in for a 2008 F250 4WD with v10 Triton engine - yeah, gas mileage went down a bit (though not much when towing) and since we put less than 5000 miles a year on the truck, it isn't a big deal for us.

I had thought about pilothouse style boats, but still am not quite sure - obviously they look like they would offer a lot of the things we want, but the weight and how they ride in the water may be a concern - I have heard they can really pound you due to the pilothouse being so forward and heavy. I'm also 6'1 and don't know if I would be a good fit for the overhead clearance.

You guys are a lot more experienced than me so I'd appreciate any advice. Definitely going to be a used boat. I like the idea of a single outboard engine. I'm thinking 23 foot might be ideal, though would be willing to consider a 25 foot as well.

I've heard some very good things about the Grady 228 Seafarer - don't know if there are any particular years to avoid or look for that are superior to the others. Just found this one that looked very nice, and has a Honda 4-stroke motor:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1996-Grady-White-228-SEAFAIRER-102043500

Biggest concern is ride quality, fuel efficiency, and seaworthiness, as well as how it would all match up with our needs.

We have also looked at the Edgewater 225EX - they are hard to find and that model isn't made anymore, but apparently it was an incredible boat, got 3.7mpg, and rode wonderfully.

Thanks for all the help and advice!


Thanks!

 

[magicalbill]

Welcome! Lots of pro's on here that can help with your purchase questions.

I'll fire the first volley..

The adventures you describe and the seas you will travel in to experience them will require at least a 23', and a 24 or 25 would be better.
Bahamas, Tortugas, offshore fishing in the Keys; these kinds of trips need to be done in safety and comfort.

The 23 Gulfstream would be a great choice (I own one..) as you can configure it with twins or a single. Downside is that it rides really well in seas up to 2 feet. Anything bigger can be dealt with, but the ride gets rougher and the fuel burn goes up noticably.
The other downside to the Gulfstream is the 9' 3" beam that makes towing it irritating. (Overwide permits are required.) Your truck will tow it, although you'll know it's back there..Mine weighs 10,100 lbs with trailer. Yours probably will come in around 8000-8500 or so.
The wide cockpit aft is great for fishing, storing scuba gear and anything else. It's wide beam, while a handful to tow, makes for great stability while adrift in a beam or following sea.
The cabin iin the Gulfstream is fine for overniting..It has a bunk above that folds up in addition to the V-berth and filler cushions below. it's not the Mariott, but it works.

I have a friend who fishes offshore regularly in a Journey 258. It rides slightly better than my Gulfstream, due to the 8' 6" beam, which makes it way easier to tow around. He has twin 150's and it performs well, getting 2.5 or more MPG at cruise. (My Gulfstream has twin 200's and gets 1.9-2.0 normally.) His Journey has plenty of room in the cockpit also, and an adequate cabin.

Even with the above mentioned boats, you'll still have to pick your days for long offshore runs. Summer is usually best as the winds are generally lighter. You'll be happier with a bigger boat like the ones described above, but it will still knock you around out there pretty often.

Personally, I prefer twins over singles. It's easier to horse the boat around a dock and they plane easily. Plus, there's the security thing....

One more thing..Make sure the trailer you purchase is up to the task of towing the boat. Many dealers skimp on weight capacity, fitting a trailer to a boat that's BARELY equipped enough to get it short distances to the ramp and back. If you plan to tow any distance, get the trailer checked out and overbuild it if it isn't already. I found out the hard way a couple times about this...

Got long-winded here..Best to 'ya

 

[Karter34]

282 sailfish is the go , I agree 22 23 is too small . Do it once and do it right .
I was on on e lately and it will do everything you want it to
Large rear area , handle waves with comfort , niceish overnight area toilet great viewing platform .
Walk around area though not a centre console .
Anyway good lick

 

[Karter34]

http://www.boattrader.com/search-result ... /Page-2,25

Try this

 

[ocnslr]

Sailfish is a great boat and will certainly meet the needs you describe, as well as more as you develop further. However, the 9.5-ft beam will restrict your towing.

The largest boat Grady built that could be trailered anywhere, anytime is the Islander. You can find a 268 or 270, with single (marginal, but adequate) engine or twins. Or even one with an old single and repower with twins. Or repower with the new Yamaha 300-HP engine for good, economical performance.

We purchased our Islander new with a single 250HP OX6, then repowered with twins to extend our fishing range. We regularly fish the Norfolk Canyon and continental shelf area, 75-80nm offshore.

Brian

 

[grady33]

You won't go wrong with this boat -- http://www.taylormarinecenter.com/index ... ne&id=6825

Ok I admit that this boat is mine which I'm selling cause I now have a 330 Express. It is a great boat and has all the range, space and stability you will need for many years of fun in the keys. Always kept on lift so no experience trailer'n it.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Ok, I will bite. First, I would agree on getting a bigger boat. I would agree all the boats mentioned above are very nice and very capable. With that said, you asked about a 228 which I own and moved up from a GW 192. Last summer I took her to the Bahamas in the Abacos with a well maintained single F250 Yammy and a 125 gallon tank, mine is a 2008, we ran with a friend with an Express 330 and another guy with 30 foot Contender and my litte ole 228 kept up quite nicely. We explored for 2 weeks in the Bahamas with her. I routinely fish out of east central Florida with it upwards of 60 miles off and in the Florida Keys and would not hesitate running to the Dry Tortugas with it either.

Now the caveat is this, I still pick my days to fish way off, and I have fished in 4 to 5s with it. Can it run as fast an Islander in those same conditions? likely not. I would love an Islander myself for what it is worth, but on the other hand the 228 is good on gas, easily towable and if your get a newer one with a 4 banger on it, the reliabilty of single these days is pretty darn good. With that said my ditch bag has an EPIRB in it and I have a Sea Tow membership too.

If you are still looking at the 228 some where in the mid 2000s they switched from offering a 90 gallon tank with a reserve option to a standard 125 gallon tank. I do not know the model year. I am 5'5" and I can comfortably sleep in the cabin and have done so. The Gulfstream has better stand up room than the 228, but I shyed away due to the wide beam and I must trailer my boat across a state to two to enjoy it as I do.

If you can afford a bigger boat in the 25 to 28 foot range then go for it. If you are liking the 228, sea trial one first and it will ride waay better than the lighter shorter Key West. I am a boat guy ,love boats and if I could swing it I honestly would get a Marlin 300 or Express 330 and KEEP my 228 too. It is a great water sports boat, lake boat, river boat, Keys boat and in a group crossing a good Bahamas boat too. I just added some stern lights for night fishing in the Keys on her as I will be there in a few weeks. If you have any questions about it feel free to ask me. Good luck in your search.... hope my two cents helped.

 

[Grog]

I'm thinking the Sailfish is smallest for you, maybe up to a Marlin. You're in Florida and they seem to be lax about the laws, I've seen some crazy big boats being trailered and if need be get the permits. With 4 divers and their equipment anything less than the 28 will be cramped. Yes the 23 has roughly the same cockpit, you loose the aft berth which is great for stowing your "stuff" and the 28 can have AC which the wife might enjoy. The Marlin is a Sailfish on steroids.

The extra size give you more seaworthyness, ride quality is good as long as you don't want to fly, but.... if you hit 2 MPG be happy (very).

I've been on pilot house boats and there are more creature comforts (like AC and heat in the cabin while underway), a lot of room, but the ride is OK.

 

[grady33]

My sailfish burns 18-20 gp/ hour cruising at 30-35 Knots. Will do 50 MPH. My 330 with twin 250s burns 24-26 /hr but no where near the speed. The 2000 sailfish engines are 225 0x 66s. They are in good shape and should give plenty more years. If I had not moved up, I would have kept them another few years, then sold them and repowered with 4 strokes. Don't need to but what the heck. Now with large tuition bills, I probably wouldn't bother. If you have any questions, pm me your email. My sailfish was my baby and I know her inside and out.

 

[magicalbill]

Like Grog, I have seen ridiculously big boats being pulled around Florida.
I was trying to strike a balance between affordability, trailerability and seaworthiness by suggesting the 23' and the 25' Journey. Yes, he'd be better off sea-keeping wise with a Sailfish or Marlin, but there's a tradeoff in more upfront purchase cost, increased fuel burn, the truck and trailering challenges, etc.

 

[grey2112]

Guys, thanks for the advice so far. I'm having a hard time figuring out just exactly what to look for regarding our next boat. It seems to me that for the MAJORITY of our usage (less than 40-50 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico off Tampa/Clearwater), picking our days, that a smaller boat (like the 228 or an Edgewater 225EX) would be ideal. We'd use less gas, easier to trailer, easier to maneuver, and maybe we could spend a little more for a newer model with a 4 stroke vs. having to settle for an Islander or 258 that was older with more worn out equipment.

We've had our 196 BayReef with 2-stroke Johnson for 1.5 years now and have taken it out in some pretty rough conditions - having a different design, cuddy cabin for storage and to get out of the rain, a drier ride, and a lot more aft space, plus a portapotty, would be a huge difference to our current situation. I figure that the likelihood of us ever doing the Bahamas trip or the Tortugas trip is honestly pretty small, as is the overnights - it would suck to spend a lot of money on a much larger boat only to find out we hate overnighting or just can't afford the gas or time to take it much further out than 40+ miles.

I am going to look at this boat tomorrow just to get an idea of the layout, quality, etc.:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1998- ... der-347791

But I'd really like to find someone locally (I'm in New Port Richey) who has a 228 that I can check out to get an idea as to how I like its layout.

 

[Doc Stressor]

I fish the same areas you do with my 226. If you would like to take a ride with me and are willing to drive up to Homosassa, send me a PM. I've been in 228's, Gulfstreams, plus older Offshores and Sailfish. I can explain the differences in ride and fuel consumption, but it's too much to go into here.

Fuel consumption is a big issue around here since we have to run so far for grouper and snapper. I average 3 mpg running at 4200 for around 30-31 mph.

BTW, I've seen Edgewater 225EX's and they are very nice. They have an amazing amount of cabin space for a 22'. Don't believe the 3.7 mpg though. That must have been measured on a flat reservoir somewhere. You won't see anything like that in the typical Gulf chop.

 

[grey2112]

Doc, thank you - very much interested in taking a ride - what is the main difference between a 226 and a 228?

Checked out a GW 268 today - it was a BIG boat - I think a little too big for our needs. Plus I wondered about the OX66 250HP being just a wee bit too small for it. Then there's the trailering factor - with a trailer and tongue length I'd be looking at close to 31-32 feet which is a lot - I've done it before (used to own a 31' travel trailer) but getting it into gas stations, parking, etc. was a real stone cold female dog.

We also checked out a Proline 251. Wife actually liked the layout, but I felt that it was kind of underpowered with a Suzuki 225 4-stroke. Cruising speed of 25 at 4200 rpm didn't give me the warm and fuzzies - 25 is SLOW in my book for your optimal cruising speed. Not too sure on Pro-line quality, either.

 

[Doc Stressor]

The 226 doesn't have the enclosed transom and transom bracket as the 228 does. It does, however, plane out better at lower speeds. That's important to me when I'm running long distances in the slop.

I sent you a PM.

 

[GulfSea]

Grey, search google images for the Grady 226 and 228; look at the transom and how the motor is mounted on each. I know it confused me too when I looked a few years ago. If it matters, I just measured my 228 for a possible carport and without the pulpit, it's 28' long. The only trouble I've had running mine has been docking I think due to the large engine and bracket/offset. But upon taking sage advice here, I tilt it up a little when coming into dock and haven't had a bit of trouble since.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Hey Guys,
If you trailer a wide beam boat to the Florida Keys you will likely get stopped and checked for a permit once you are in the Keys. Do not assume you wont get stopped, assume you will once in the Keys.

Doc, I would have agreed with you on the 226 planes out better at lower speeds than the 228 before I switched to a 4 blade prop. Also, the trim tabs when deployed will get the boat to plane out at lower speeds as well. That 4 blade prop makes a real difference in how the 228 turns, planes, gets out of the hole and in following seas, plus it adds about .1 to .2 mpg in over all fuel economy. I like the full stern of the 228, but we all like something on our boats and find little ticks we do not like.

 

[dpcarson]

Smoky, tell me more what you are seeing with the four blade. I am thinking of a prop change on my 242, still running 225 two stroke. Considering going over to a 4 blade. I am not worried about speed, but more overall performance and efficiency. Since you are running one, your feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Dp - We use our boat for all sorts of things from pulling a tube or wake board to fishing to cruising, from lake and river running to offshore use. I noticed the boat in turns with a F250 would be fine but in sharper turns it would lose performance and slow down, as if the boat could not corner like a car per se. With the 4 blade prop it holds the corner better.

the 228 is bracketed boat as you know and it took some time to understand how to trim it out and what works for getting on a plane quickly. This is no big deal just cruising or fishing, but it is a big deal pulling toys and people attached to them. You want the boat to hop on a plane quicker. The 4 blade prop adds some stern lift in and of itself. Adding the 4th blade means two of the 4 are always in contact or under the water all the time and this helps greatly with hole shots.

when I do fish and seas are 2 to 4 with swells or 3 to 5s with chop on top, the extra contact area with the water helps alot , especially in following seas. Trolling seems to be more effeciant as I can hit 7 knots at maybe 100 rpm lower when chasing dolphin. My fuel economy has improved at cruising speeds as the boat will plane at lower speeds thus lower rpms to get there. On average our fuel economy has improved about .2 mpg.

The odd ball part of this, I wonder why Grayd simply does not equip more of their boats with 4 blade wheels to begin with. I lost 1 mph on the top end, but the performance gains at the speeds I routinely use the boat and how I use the boat are significant. I rarely run WOT. Sometimes we do it simply to open up the engine just to do it. I bought a prop those guys down in LA, darn it I dont remember it - Performance or something like that....I know Coconut here runs a pair of Mercury 4 blade props with those new easy to replace hubs on his Express 330 with twin F300s v6s.