newbie needs some help with the head on a Freedom 307?
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JJF
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>heavy sigh < no joy - took the panel off and dived in - bought the vented loop thinking that it would be a slam dunk but no - there is no vented loop.
vent hose is clear - this is my set up in picture. Now I am thinking the system must not be closed and there is an air leak somewhere ...I put soap in the head and I can actually see air bubbles coming out all of the fittings - pumpout hose fitting, macerator out fitting, flush in filling ... they are all leaking air -
just for sanity check - this is not right - right? what can I use to seal them? they have to point a specific way to line up with hoses so its not like I can tighten them more without the chance of just snapping them off. I would have to get a whole turn in. attached pics of set up and a video of air bubble - bubbles coming out of all the fittings. this just can't suck enough ... lol ... pardon the pun. any help / advice would be sincerely appreciated.
vent hose is clear - this is my set up in picture. Now I am thinking the system must not be closed and there is an air leak somewhere ...I put soap in the head and I can actually see air bubbles coming out all of the fittings - pumpout hose fitting, macerator out fitting, flush in filling ... they are all leaking air -
just for sanity check - this is not right - right? what can I use to seal them? they have to point a specific way to line up with hoses so its not like I can tighten them more without the chance of just snapping them off. I would have to get a whole turn in. attached pics of set up and a video of air bubble - bubbles coming out of all the fittings. this just can't suck enough ... lol ... pardon the pun. any help / advice would be sincerely appreciated.
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head1.jpg -
snip.bubblesx.jpg
JJF
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"grady dealer - swears it worked when replaced - I asked them to test it again when I bought the boat and they told me they couldn't actually test it because there was no way to test it and be environmentally correct. losers. tank looks brand new - at least I know they didn't lie about that."
when did the GRW dealer claim it all worked?
If recently, tell them they need to make it work correctly
when did the GRW dealer claim it all worked?
If recently, tell them they need to make it work correctly
There in lies the problem. Dealer is in north carolina. I am in boston. Knew this was going to happen. I need to fix this. Not a big deal. Its not rocket science. I have access and can do the work. Believe me, if there was a boat local, I would have bought it. I need to reseat all the fittings and seal them with something? Is that the right thing to do or should I replace the holding tank and go all new?
Whats the best way to approach this?
Whats the best way to approach this?
JJF
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There should be a valve (seacock) that gets opened to allow waste water to pass from the tank/boat to the ocean.
JJF
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I don't think air leaks are the issue, because I don't think it's a "vacuum based" system. I think it is more so gravity fed. I am not 100% sure of this, though.
JJF
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Hmmm...
At this point, I am about out of ideas. However, I would be willing to come to the boat (if it's in Boston/nearby) to take a look,
At this point, I am about out of ideas. However, I would be willing to come to the boat (if it's in Boston/nearby) to take a look,
Wow! Who does that ?! My heart soared reading that...so frustrated. Help would certainly be welcome! Before I take advantage of that generous offer, I can check 2 more things ... need to make sure vent is clear ... thought I could check it from the out side but the vent was too small..ugh. need to pull the hose on the inside. Next, need to take hose off discharge seacock and make sure it is really open. Valve shows open..but now wondering if it isnt broken.
This boat actually started in Fl, does Fl somehow 'seal'the discharge path to prevent illegal dumping? I know, its a stretch...
Will get back there in the next few days, will let you know.
Sincerely, thank you for the offer!!
This boat actually started in Fl, does Fl somehow 'seal'the discharge path to prevent illegal dumping? I know, its a stretch...
Will get back there in the next few days, will let you know.
Sincerely, thank you for the offer!!
JJF
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"who does that?!" ....I do.. 
I live my a certain ideal..."Do unto others" (though I am not overly religious)
To test whether the vent is clear, you could open the pump-out fitting on the gunnel (yeah, I know gunnel is mis-used), which would allow air to flow into the system.
Regarding removing the discharge hose from the seacock. I would do this slowly and have a wet/dry vac available to vacuum up any spillage and a sealable container to put it in until you can dispose of it properly.. You also want to have some gloves, rags and a good disinfectant on hand to clean up any mess from waste water plus a trash bag to dispose of the rags. (It can get messy; trust me on this one.)
I live my a certain ideal..."Do unto others" (though I am not overly religious)To test whether the vent is clear, you could open the pump-out fitting on the gunnel (yeah, I know gunnel is mis-used), which would allow air to flow into the system.
Regarding removing the discharge hose from the seacock. I would do this slowly and have a wet/dry vac available to vacuum up any spillage and a sealable container to put it in until you can dispose of it properly.. You also want to have some gloves, rags and a good disinfectant on hand to clean up any mess from waste water plus a trash bag to dispose of the rags. (It can get messy; trust me on this one.)
I know your on the edge of your seat ... insert drum roll here ... discharge seacock wont open. Handle moves freely but doesnt turn the valve inside. Mystery solved. So dissappointed in Atlantic Marine in Wilmington NC. Oh well, tops on my list of fall projects. Sincere thank you for all the tips.
JJF
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Very happy you found your likely problem. A macerator pump will not pump waste through a closed valve!
But to follow up...
Depending on where you are boating in Florida, waste discharge rules could be more stringent than Federal rules. Absent a manual lockout device, a removable key switch for example, I suggest you keep the pump-out seacock closed when operating in State waters. An additional benefit, operating the seacock frequently will prevent the valve from seizing-up and rounding the stem/handle in the future. I suspect the seized-up seacock was the initial root cause that resulted in the tank being replaced (unless it froze and busted).
From your photograph, your waste-holding tank discharge pump looks to be a Jabsco Series 18590, or similar, macerator pump. This macerator pump is of an impeller-type, similar to the cooling water pump on an outboard motor. This type of pump doesn't have/require the "duckbill" valve most of us are expecting from our experience with diaphragm-displacement type waste pumps. So don't worry about a reversed duckbill valve (your pump no, displacement pump yes, very possible to reverse).
When the seacock is repaired/replaced and open, you could still have blockages and plugging in a) the intake tube from the pump inlet and dropping down into the holding tank (and yes, it is OK that some air can escape at the grommets where inlet and outlet tubes enter the holding tank, you just don't want waste sloshing out here), b) the pump impeller and volute, c) the pump macerator cutter/chopper, or d) the outlet hoses leading from the pump to the seacock.
It is possible that the pump impeller and associated parts might be worn/damaged as well. If you have repaired and opened the seacock, eliminated all possible blockages/plugging, and the pump still doesn't pump (but the motor runs), you can get and install a pump rebuild kit. My guess is that a rebuild kit may cost as much as a new pump, and replacing the pump will likely be much easier than installing the rebuild kit.
But to follow up...
Depending on where you are boating in Florida, waste discharge rules could be more stringent than Federal rules. Absent a manual lockout device, a removable key switch for example, I suggest you keep the pump-out seacock closed when operating in State waters. An additional benefit, operating the seacock frequently will prevent the valve from seizing-up and rounding the stem/handle in the future. I suspect the seized-up seacock was the initial root cause that resulted in the tank being replaced (unless it froze and busted).
From your photograph, your waste-holding tank discharge pump looks to be a Jabsco Series 18590, or similar, macerator pump. This macerator pump is of an impeller-type, similar to the cooling water pump on an outboard motor. This type of pump doesn't have/require the "duckbill" valve most of us are expecting from our experience with diaphragm-displacement type waste pumps. So don't worry about a reversed duckbill valve (your pump no, displacement pump yes, very possible to reverse).
When the seacock is repaired/replaced and open, you could still have blockages and plugging in a) the intake tube from the pump inlet and dropping down into the holding tank (and yes, it is OK that some air can escape at the grommets where inlet and outlet tubes enter the holding tank, you just don't want waste sloshing out here), b) the pump impeller and volute, c) the pump macerator cutter/chopper, or d) the outlet hoses leading from the pump to the seacock.
It is possible that the pump impeller and associated parts might be worn/damaged as well. If you have repaired and opened the seacock, eliminated all possible blockages/plugging, and the pump still doesn't pump (but the motor runs), you can get and install a pump rebuild kit. My guess is that a rebuild kit may cost as much as a new pump, and replacing the pump will likely be much easier than installing the rebuild kit.
Appreciate all the help. With the discharge valve closed, and the seacock not working, I need to wait for tge end of season. Boat originated in FL but now resides in MA.
Discharge is still legal off shore which is where I spend a lot of time. Its day long trips for me, the head us so small it fills up easy and I want to be able to dump. The water was leaking out of tank into bilge...granted air tight and water tight are different but there should have been more attention given to at least tightening the fittings. I went thru everything, tightened, sealed now, nothing leaks when fullish. Nothing more I can do until I change that sea cock.
I am sincerely grateful for all the detailed advice. You were a really big help and I learned so much.
Discharge is still legal off shore which is where I spend a lot of time. Its day long trips for me, the head us so small it fills up easy and I want to be able to dump. The water was leaking out of tank into bilge...granted air tight and water tight are different but there should have been more attention given to at least tightening the fittings. I went thru everything, tightened, sealed now, nothing leaks when fullish. Nothing more I can do until I change that sea cock.
I am sincerely grateful for all the detailed advice. You were a really big help and I learned so much.
I forget how fortunate we are in most parts of Florida to be able to load our boats onto a trailer or lift into dry storage whenever we want! And we boat year round even if it is 98 degrees out.
JJF
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To lessen how quickly it fills up: men pee over the side & ask the women to NOT flush every time they pee....
also, to lessen the chance of clogging, do not use too much TP and make sure there is plenty of water to soften the TP... (Don't ask me how I know...really, don't ask.. I don't want to talk about it... still having nightmares about having to disassemble, clear "the plug" and clean out/up afterwards.. did I mention don't ask me about it?)
I'm a bit sorry to continue this discussion further, but I just now paid attention to your comment about filling the head quickly. The holding tank shown in your photograph looks to be a 10 gallon tank. A typical flush should be on the order of 1/2 gal or less. So starting with an empty waste holding tank, you should be able to get on the order of 20 flushes without filling the waste holding tank. I suspect you have NEVER completely emptied your waste holding tank.
2 old ladies here ... lol ... no plugs and sooo easy to fill. Hey guys, sincerely, thank you for all the stories and advice. Believe me, it all will help.