NizPro ECM Flash

[chrisk]

Has anyone heard of or had done the NizPro ECM upgrade? NizPro is an Australian company that has a program to increase the horsepower of your motor (Yamaha) through an ECM reflash. From what I have learned, this will increase the horsepower of my Yamaha 250 SHO from 250HP to 330HP with a simple (but not cheap) reflash of the motor's ECM. First learned of this from Ken (PropGods) when I was researching changing my propellor to increase RPM as I am a bit below where I should be. He suggested I look into this as I only need to increase 300 to 400 RPM and the increased horsepower may do the same with an increase in MPH as well as fuel economy.

Looking for input from anyone who has done this or knows of anyone who has done this. Pros and cons.

Thanks.

 

[Fishtales]

Sounds too good to be true. Usually there are mechanical mods associated with a tune (car), I doubt this is real and if so it has to affect reliability and void warranty.

 

[Fishermanbb]

It is real, it does work, but the effect depends on the motor. Some motors see significant increases while others are more subtle (IIRC the 250 gets a nice bump b it the 300 not so much). It will void the warranty. They are well known and widely used though. Search the internet and you will find a lot of info. I wouldn’t use it on motors in warranty under any circumstances.

 

[Ky Grady]

Yup,,,NizPro has been around for awhile. Don't think it works on the older 3.3 motors. And void warranty on a new motor is a hard no for me. Maybe after the warranty goes out I'll look at it again. For some reason I was thinking the 250 goes up to 332 with NizPro, may be wrong on that.

 

[DennisG01]

I don't know anything about NizPro, but has anyone ever seen a HP/Torque chart comparison for before/after? Just playing devil's advocate here, but if the power band increase is only at the higher RPM's, does it really help for anything other than top end speed?

 

[Hookup1]

Maybe if I were using the engine for racing but not my everyday boat.

 

[JJF]

OP..

Not an attack, but if you do it, your follow-up post will likely read: "Help! I did a reflash of the the ECM and now having engine issues."

Personally, I would steer well clear of any change to how the factory tuned the engine, unless it was offered by the factory. I remember back in the 80s when people would retune their IROC Zs, T/As, Vettes, etc. and would have nothing but problems afterwards.

 

[family affair]

Chrisk,
The 4.2 f250 is the same engine as the f300. ECU fuel and ignition mapping are the only differences. With Nizpro they raise the rev limiter several hundred rpm's while also tuning for more power across the entire rev range. As stated by another member, the 4.2 225 and 250 will benefit the most. The f300 will gain some power in the midrange, but the peak numbers are only achieved near the higher rev limiter.
As for the risk, I wouldn't want to run any large outboard for long periods of time at WOT, let alone at a higher rev limit than what the factory did. Will it hurt the engine if you did? Probably not if the engine is well maintained. Just because the rev limit is raised doesn't mean you need to run your engine that high.
Keep in mind the factory ECU mapping is engineered for performance, but also emissions. A tuner can play with those maps to get more power at the expense of what typically is more NOx emissions, especially if you are tuning a 4.2 to out muscle an f300. Don't forget the tune will require higher octane over 87.

 

[Halfhitch]

I repowered a previous Grady with a 4.2L Yamaha F225. It was the mechanical throttle/shift type and I had feeling I wasn't getting full throttle on the engine. I finally took it to Cannon Marina on Longboat Key. They put it on their computer and they gave me a printout showing that the butterfly valves were opening 65% . Right on spec. That printout showed the other ECM parameters like fueling and such, all in spec. The Mechanic said it was the easiest, best and cheapest way for Yamaha to get 3 different horsepower models from one basic design. The ECM just limits the air and fuel to get the lesser HP models. I ask the mechanic if, after my warrantee was up, could he just reprogram the ECM to make it a 250. He said that was a discussion he couldn't get into.

 

[DennisG01]

So... just out of curiosity, I went to SIM's site and compared, as an example, a 2008 F225 to a F250. I only QUICKLY looked at parts comparisons, but the first section I went to, Intake 1, was not the same from one motor to another. Again, I only did this quickly and only looked briefly at this section, but the F225 had (38) parts listed and the F250 had (31) parts listed. Hmmm?

 

[Halfhitch]

So... just out of curiosity, I went to SIM's site and compared, as an example, a 2008 F225 to a F250. I only QUICKLY looked at parts comparisons, but the first section I went to, Intake 1, was not the same from one motor to another. Again, I only did this quickly and only looked briefly at this section, but the F225 had (38) parts listed and the F250 had (31) parts listed. Hmmm?

My engine was a 4.2L from 2018. Were you looking at the 3.3L engines?

 

[DennisG01]

My engine was a 4.2L from 2018. Were you looking at the 3.3L engines?

I only looked quickly to try and compare two "same" engines. I just randomly picked 2008. I first verified that the engine blocks had the same part numbers, though. I guess my only point (which I didn't clarify well enough) is to double check important parts from one HP rating to the other. If all of the major components are the same, then that lends credence to the reflash. But, for example, I remember looking at this a number of years ago (it was a small engine and I don't recall the brand)... but it may have been a 20HP and a 25HP (something like that). I recall that while the engine block and pistons were the same, there were differences in the intake and exhaust. So just doing a reflash on that engine wouldn't be enough.

In other words, anyone considering doing this shouldn't blindly trust what a company says... or even a mechanic. Trust but verify and do your own homework

 

[family affair]

The 3.3's were sold in 2 versions. The 225 did not have variable cam timing. The 250 does. My guess is the 225 had a 2 stage intake runner and the 250 with the vct didn't need it.
I also went through this on the 4 cylinders Suzuki df ap's. All valve train part numbers were different from 150 to 200. I find that hard to believe when all specs are otherwise identical.
Back in my design days we sometimes made identical parts with different part numbers for a variety of reasons. One of which was product differentiation to charge a higher price for the exact same thing but marketed for something else where a premium could be charged. Other times it was to serve as a red heron to throw off would be part mixers.

 

[chrisk]

Some good information. Especially interesting info from Halfhitch about what Cannon's told him. Motor is a 4.2 litre and it is out of warranty. Not looking to run WOT for extended periods of time so reliability shouldn't be an issue. Boat is a 1992 24 Explorer with a bracket. Motor runs about 5400 RPM at WOT. Trying to get it up a few RPMs to Yamaha's "recommended" range. The cost to do the NizPro is about the same as a new prop and dropping down in pitch may cost me a few MPH and possibly affect economy. If what Halfhitch said is true, an ECM reflash may be the way to go. I will look to see if a performance chart is available to see exactly what the HP/TQ results would be.

 

[Halfhitch]

Chrisk, this is what the throttle plate looked like at full throttle when I removed the silencer on my 4.2L Yamaha 225. When I saw that, I figured I had a problem with my linkage or my binnacle because I could not adjust it to go to full throttle, or in-line with the bore. Thats when I took it to Cannons and they came back with that being the full throttle setting for the 225. It is 65% of fully aligned with the bore, and that picture shows about that. I sold the boat and passed that printout from Cannons along to the buyer so I can't display it for you.

 

[DennisG01]

Chris, what prop are you running? Are you trimming up properly? I suspect your boat and mine are very similar? I can hit about 5,500RPM (which is the max for my engine). I'm running the Yamaha 17M prop (15-1/4x17).

 

[chrisk]

Chris, what prop are you running? Are you trimming up properly? I suspect your boat and mine are very similar? I can hit about 5,500RPM (which is the max for my engine). I'm running the Yamaha 17M prop (15-1/4x17).

I'm pretty sure I am running the same prop as you are. 5400 RPM is my max and I believe the max for my motor (Yamaha 250 SHO) is either 6000 or 6200. Not concerned about not being able to hit the max, but I would like to be able to run at least 5800+. Trim setting is good, no matter what I try 5400 is the max. At that RPM I can run about 43-46 MPH depending upon conditions and number of people in the boat.

 

[DennisG01]

I'm not overly concerned with hitting the top end of the RPM range, either. It's good to be at least close to it for efficiency, though. I wonder if your Explorer is lighter than my Offshore? I can hit 40 on the dot with a light load. Strange, though, because your RPM is right in line with mine.

 

[chrisk]

So I got some more info about the NizPro reflash. It raises the RPM limiter to 6400 (+200). The graph shows a horsepower increase from the bottom all the way through the RPM range with the biggest gain at 5000 RPM and higher. No torque curve but the website states a 5% increase throughout. My choices are to 1) Reprop to probably a 15 pitch prop which will raise my RPMs and possibly drop my speed and/or negatively affect my economy or, 2) go with the NizPro reflash and keep the same prop. Feedback from the website and from the shop says economy will improve and the power increase will help get me into the "recommended" RPM range.

I do know that when I changed motors from the 3.3 litre F225 to the 4.2 litre 250 SHO my economy did get better and I picked up about 5-7 MPH in the process so there may be some truth to their claims. I was hoping to get some feedback from someone who has done this to see if this will in fact achieve what I am trying to achieve.

 

[Momentary Lapse]

Chrisk, I am new to the forum and investigating Nizpro. I have a 2008 360 with 2014 Yamaha 2 x 350 hp. My neighbor turned me onto Nixpro as his friends did the flash on their 300s (engine details I do not know) they were happy. Ft. Myers company did it. The download can be done DIY, I think but don't trust me. Like others have stated simple fuel/air modification. I have raised the question do they consider local operating conditions and regionally they have different maps? S.Fl is completely different than Boston. Additionally, I have a good friend that runs V10 Mercs on his Yellowfin, but for many years he as done this on Duramax diesels. Gives the owners a 50/75/100 hp dial on the dash board. I too only got 5400 rpm at survey, and now 5200. I cannot explain the degradation as hull is clean, engines sound/check good and only 500hrs on powerhead. Lucky me, got to purchase a new LH lower unit during covid. Latent defect in thrust bearing. Back to the point, my props are salt water series II 16.25 x 17. Lots of slip in sloppy / somewhat large waves 6-8ft, but it is all anyone can do to get this on plane in 5ft following sea. Current plan under review is buy 15.25 x 15 PowerTech 4 blade to gain rpm, and possibly the flash. I have to go HP increase first and then reprop is my understanding. PowerTech has been very helpful and more technical than I expected. They are also a Nizpro dealer. As fate would have it, my neighbors father just purchased 2014 360 Express with 3 x 300 v6. He is complaining of the same slip issue. He purchased 15.75 x 13 pitch with the goal being plane on 2 engines. Next time I see him I will ask him if they will do the flash as well. I contacted local Nizpro dealer and he said does not void warranty, i believe he is mistaken. But my 350 has the rotordynamic flaw with the flywheel. That is a pure miss on Yamaha's part. He said if you don't violate their RPM max warranty is valid. I will never run this beast WOT for any measurable distance.

Since I am new and appears 6 months behind this chat, I would love to hear if any new information is out there.