NJ Offshore Wind Farms Pros/Cons/Conspiracy theories

[SkunkBoat]

Starting this thread to get the conversation out of another thread.
There is no way to have a rational conversation so let the conspiracy theories and right and left politics fly!!!! Lets have fun!!!

There are a couple camps on this.
"We have to save the Earth from climate change by using green energy"
"we have to stop liberal tree huggers from using the government to get their woke agenda thru"
" We need green energy but its killing the whales"
"We have to stop the libs because they're killing whales"
"We should be putting oil/gas rigs there instead"
"Its a George Soros conspiracy"


My opinion is build the damn things. just don't come along later and tell me I can't fish there.
Yes, it will kill some whales in the very short term and birds in the long term.
It will not help stop "climate change" because if you take a megawatt of power out of the wind then the wind won't be doing a megawatt of what it was doing before. So you just changed the climate.
There is no such thing as "green energy". At least not on a scale that can maintain 8 billion people. We burn sunshine from millions of years ago to power humanity. 8 billion people can't live off the sunshine that strikes the planet today in real time.
All of these alternative green energies and electrification are a farce. I wish it wasn't true but at global scale they all have bad consequences. That doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. Change makes money. Do it.

I just think about how great mahi fishing is in NJ on the strings of lobster pot markers out at the 20-30 fathom lines. Now they are going to build turbine platforms right in the mid range grounds. Probably help tuna fishing too. And Sea Bass.
Will it hurt something else yeah well nothing stays the same... and when the water warms up from having less wind & waves, maybe we'll start getting more cobia..or even grouper or snapper?

on a side note, NOAA is looking at ways to get rid of surface lobster pot markers because they entangle marine mammals. So we need these wind platforms asap!

 

[seasick]

Not on this forum......

 

[Saltyone]

At least not on a scale that can maintain 8 billion people. We burn sunshine from millions of years ago to power humanity. 8 billion people can't live off the sunshine that strikes the planet today in real time.

Please enlighten me on this. Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong but doesn't sunshine reach us in just over 8 min?

I'm all for changes in ways to improve our footprint on the planet. There is big debate here on the west coast regarding dams and their effect on everything from water temp, irrigation, fish migration, etc. If you haven't watched it, there is a great documentary on Netflix called Damnation, about the removal of the Elwha dam to help restore salmon habitat. Klamath dam removal is supposed to start here soon, again to help revive salmon runs on the Klamath river in Southern Oregon and Northern California. The biggest one that people are trying to get going is removal of the 4 lower Snake River dams.

Being a NW native, you always hear and read about how big the salmon runs used to be, how the actual fish have changed. I think the average salmon on the Columbia is between 12-15 lbs. Those are babies compared to what they used to be. You see some old pictures of people holding 70-100lb salmon out of the Columbia. They estimate the salmon runs used to be between 7-16 million way back in the day, now its just a fraction of that. You can see the decline of the salmon population as more and more dams were built.

Which gets us back to the topic of wind farms. They have built hundreds of those along the Columbia Gorge, with more going up all the time. Will they ever remove any of the 14 dams on the mainstem Columbia? Unlikely

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Please enlighten me on this. Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong but doesn't sunshine reach us in just over 8 min?

I'm all for changes in ways to improve our footprint on the planet. There is big debate here on the west coast regarding dams and their effect on everything from water temp, irrigation, fish migration, etc. If you haven't watched it, there is a great documentary on Netflix called Damnation, about the removal of the Elwha dam to help restore salmon habitat. Klamath dam removal is supposed to start here soon, again to help revive salmon runs on the Klamath river in Southern Oregon and Northern California. The biggest one that people are trying to get going is removal of the 4 lower Snake River dams.

Being a NW native, you always hear and read about how big the salmon runs used to be, how the actual fish have changed. I think the average salmon on the Columbia is between 12-15 lbs. Those are babies compared to what they used to be. You see some old pictures of people holding 70-100lb salmon out of the Columbia. They estimate the salmon runs used to be between 7-16 million way back in the day, now its just a fraction of that. You can see the decline of the salmon population as more and more dams were built.

Which gets us back to the topic of wind farms. They have built hundreds of those along the Columbia Gorge, with more going up all the time. Will they ever remove any of the 14 dams on the mainstem Columbia? Unlikely

I watched an hour long documentary on PBS several months back called "The Lost Salmon" that was extremely informative about dams and their impacts on salmon, other wildlife and the environment in general. My thought process on the matter is that if dams do everything that they claim to and make more electricity or energy than we need, then why do we need the wind farms in eastern Washington on top of that? I agree that the dams should be taken out so that life can allowed to go back to what it was like before, especially with regards to fishing. Without going too far down the rabbit hole, it's also imo like those that think we need all electric vehicles yet clearly our electrical grid can't support it. If every single household in the country had one or even two electrical vehicles, there's no way our current system could keep up with it, especially in the midwest where the majority of homes and business run off of coal. California already has a problem of where they have the rolling blackouts because of the energy consumption that electric cars need to recharge, and clearly it's nowhere near what it needs to be at to be self-sustaining. On top of that, you see videos where you've got Tesla recharging stations where there are 20-30+ vehicles in front of you and the wait is going to be over 24 hours. Maybe that will change in the future? Who knows. I don't think we're going to be ready for it in the next 5-10 years though, unless something drastically changes.

The Lost Salmon | PBS

Can a new genetic discovery save the king of salmon before it's too late?

www.pbs.org

 

[SkunkBoat]

Please enlighten me on this. Maybe I'm reading your statement wrong but doesn't sunshine reach us in just over 8 min?

The fossil fuels we use are just sunshine stored over millions of years. We can't run they way we do now just on the sunshine that is hitting earth now.
And you can't get something for nothing. If you use the wind, it doesn't do what it was doing. If you cover the earth with solar panels, that sunshine won't be doing what it was doing.
Damming a river is using sunshine. The sun picks up the water and gravity drops it on the land. It always seems like there is some "free" source of power but you can't get something for nothing.

OH! and "Bio-fuels" come on! it took millions of years for plants to make fossil fuels and you are going to grow it in real time? Its physics people. It can't happen.

 

[Saltyone]

Completely agree on the electric car problems. The banning of new gas-powered car sales in 2035 in CA, OR, and WA is mind boggling. There is no way the infrastructure will be there to support that. Plus don't even get me started with the impact on the environment the mining has to produce all those batteries. I don't doubt that battery technology will get better, and maybe more renewable, but until then, there isn't limitless amounts of minerals to continue this trend. And when the minerals get more scare, it will be a supply and demand issue, that will cause a drastic increase in the cost of the batteries, and passed on to the consumer.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Some background for those outside NJ. Some of what I say may be inaccurate but it is what one hears...

They are beginning to build offshore wind farms off the coast of NJ.
They are going to bring the power ashore in NJ, connecting to the grid that used to be at a nuclear power plant (the plant closed, it was the oldest commercial nuke plant in the country)
There is blasting involved that effects marine mammals. There have been many recent whale washups on NJ and NY beaches. Some would say it is not much out of the ordinary.
The permits for the windfarms explicitly give permission for expected "take" of protected marine mammals.
It is believed by some that the current running through the undersea cables will effect groundfish like flounder.
The windfarm nearest shore will be somewhat visible from the Atlantic County beaches

 

[SkunkBoat]

Completely agree on the electric car problems. The banning of new gas-powered car sales in 2035 in CA, OR, and WA is mind boggling. There is no way the infrastructure will be there to support that. Plus don't even get me started with the impact on the environment the mining has to produce all those batteries. I don't doubt that battery technology will get better, and maybe more renewable, but until then, there isn't limitless amounts of minerals to continue this trend. And when the minerals get more scare, it will be a supply and demand issue, that will cause a drastic increase in the cost of the batteries, and passed on to the consumer.

HAHAHA we are already on three new topics! So my brother is an electrician. He added a 50A car charging station to a customers house. Customer had a 150A service. Had to upgrade the house to 200A service. Customer said what if I want second charger if my wife/kids get a Tesla too...oh you'll need a 250A service. Multiply that service upgrade by every McMansion in suburbia!

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Completely agree on the electric car problems. The banning of new gas-powered car sales in 2035 in CA, OR, and WA is mind boggling. There is no way the infrastructure will be there to support that. Plus don't even get me started with the impact on the environment the mining has to produce all those batteries. I don't doubt that battery technology will get better, and maybe more renewable, but until then, there isn't limitless amounts of minerals to continue this trend. And when the minerals get more scare, it will be a supply and demand issue, that will cause a drastic increase in the cost of the batteries, and passed on to the consumer.

Saw this video when it first came out just over a year ago now and I'm still shaking my head just from the absolute stupidity involved, which simply is quite astounding. So, you're going to "save" on fossil fuels, carbon emissions, etc by then needing to burn "x%" more amounts of coal just to provide the electricity to power up electric vehicles? Yeah, all of these homes and businesses in the midwest are going to be burning coal like crazy just to be able to charge up the batteries on the electric vehicles and this is in no way a salutation, it's shifting the problem elsewhere. Don't even get me started on the batteries themselves and how detrimental they are to the environment, not to mention the increase in prices for electricity when everyone has to power/heat up their homes and now their vehicle(s).

 

[Saltyone]

Some background for those outside NJ. Some of what I say may be inaccurate but it is what one hears...

They are beginning to build offshore wind farms off the coast of NJ.
They are going to bring the power ashore in NJ, connecting to the grid that used to be at a nuclear power plant (the plant closed, it was the oldest commercial nuke plant in the country)
There is blasting involved that effects marine mammals. There have been many recent whale washups on NJ and NY beaches. Some would say it is not much out of the ordinary.
The permits for the windfarms explicitly give permission for expected "take" of protected marine mammals.
It is believed by some that the current running through the undersea cables will effect groundfish like flounder.
The windfarm nearest shore will be somewhat visible from the Atlantic County beaches

There has been discussion on adding offshore wind farms in Oregon as well. I'm sure we'll deal with the same stuff as you. With as liberal/green as most of Oregon is, it surprises me that would even be considered. But I'm sure someone's pockets are getting lined to allow it.

 

[Hookup1]

I know this can't be stopped in NJ. I'm just trying to figure out where these windmills are (GPS locations). All I have seen are vague generalizations of where they are. I want to look at them on my chartplotter.

If Chris Christie were governor and all theses whales turned up dead you can bet they would find a way to stop the windmills. Don't tell me the science is
"inconclusive". Murphy blames all the fuss on "people using the windmills to advance their own political agenda". What do you think you are doing Phil?

I can't walk on my beach in Diamond Beach all summer because the piping plovers are hanging out there. A relative of mine gave the wildlife office a hard time and was going to walk to the jetty. The office had his hand on his gun and warned him he was going to arrest him if he when any further.

This whole green movement is crazy! Let's focus on developing fusion energy.

In the meantime - what kind of progress can I expect on building the FAD 's, when and where. And then we start to fish!

 

[Mustang65fbk]

There has been discussion on adding offshore wind farms in Oregon as well. I'm sure we'll deal with the same stuff as you. With as liberal/green as most of Oregon is, it surprises me that would even be considered. But I'm sure someone's pockets are getting lined to allow it.

I had a similar thought out here just north of Seattle where the terminal is for the ferry I take to go over to Whidbey Island from Mukilteo. The old terminal was needing to be repaired and updated, so what did they do to it? They tear down the old one and then spend $190 million on a new ferry terminal that's effectively done nothing. The old location had more lanes that were shorter in length so that people could access restaurants, bathrooms and so forth much more easily... now they've got 6 lanes that are like a half mile long. I can only imagine what an elderly person must feel like on an 85+ degree day when they're parked at the rear of the line and have to walk half a mile just to use the bathroom in the hot weather. I can't for the life of me figure out how they haven't had any more medical emergencies than they've had because of that. The terminal itself is kind of out in the middle of nowhere without any restaurants nearby, just two vending machines, and a whopping one bathroom for men and one for women. I always wondered who paid off someone to get the deal as imo there's no way that it could cost $190 million to build a ferry terminal and someone must've made a ton of profit off the deal. Meanwhile, on the other side, the ferry terminal over there hasn't been touched or updated in 20+ years and doesn't have an overhead walkway for passengers to walk off the ferry boat like the do for the new terminal. So, you still have to wait on the one side for passengers to walk off the car deck, which only slows down the ferry traffic even more. Complete waste of money imo, and it's a horrible location to put the new ferry dock. They honestly just should've left it in the original location, spent $50 million per each terminal and updated everything that way instead.

 

[SkunkBoat]

If Chris Christie were governor and all theses whales turned up dead you can bet they would find a way to stop the windmills. Don't tell me the science is
"inconclusive". Murphy blames all the fuss on "people using the windmills to advance their own political agenda". What do you think you are doing Phil?

Since when did Republicans start opposing big corporations making money? ya maybe if were up to him they'd be Nat Gas platforms. same shit different bucket

https://dep.nj.gov/offshorewind/projects/

https://www.boem.gov/sites/default/files/documents/renewable-energy/state-activities/OW1_CHRVEA.pdf

 

[SkunkBoat]

I know this can't be stopped in NJ. I'm just trying to figure out where these windmills are (GPS locations). All I have seen are vague generalizations of where they are. I want to look at them on my chartplotter.

If Chris Christie were governor and all theses whales turned up dead you can bet they would find a way to stop the windmills. Don't tell me the science is
"inconclusive". Murphy blames all the fuss on "people using the windmills to advance their own political agenda". What do you think you are doing Phil?

I can't walk on my beach in Diamond Beach all summer because the piping plovers are hanging out there. A relative of mine gave the wildlife office a hard time and was going to walk to the jetty. The office had his hand on his gun and warned him he was going to arrest him if he when any further.

This whole green movement is crazy! Let's focus on developing fusion energy.

In the meantime - what kind of progress can I expect on building the FAD 's, when and where. And then we start to fish!

you just argued against killing whales and for killing piping plovers

 

[Hookup1]

you just argued against killing whales and for killing piping plovers

Taste just like chicken!

There has to be a back room agreement with Murphy, the White House and NOAA to ignore the mammal deaths to get the "green" windmills built. Normally NJ DEP and NOAA have a "zero tolerance" policy not to harm endangered species or habitat. They know they will loose some small percentage of species or habitat every year. That is why they aggressively protect it. The whole thing "smells fishy".

 

[SkunkBoat]

Taste just like chicken!

There has to be a back room agreement with Murphy, the White House and NOAA to ignore the mammal deaths to get the "green" windmills built. Normally NJ DEP and NOAA have a "zero tolerance" policy not to harm endangered species or habitat. They know they will loose some small percentage of species or habitat every year. That is why they aggressively protect it. The whole thing "smells fishy".

hahaha yep they are loosening regulations to help industry....hmmmm

 

[kevgle]

yikes sorry guys just trying to make a little joke on the other forum.Anyway how about those Mets?

 

[seasick]

Let's not forget the purpose of this forum, to share experiences and knowledge about boating, specifically as it relates to Grady White. I don't want nor need political discussions on this forum. Don't ruin it

 

[Hookup1]

Let's not forget the purpose of this forum, to share experiences and knowledge about boating, specifically as it relates to Grady White. I don't want nor need political discussions on this forum. Don't ruin it

Agreed. Let's talk about how these windmills will help our fishing. Hopefully the politicians and regulators will let us fish!

 

[SkunkBoat]

Let's not forget the purpose of this forum, to share experiences and knowledge about boating, specifically as it relates to Grady White. I don't want nor need political discussions on this forum. Don't ruin it

Its not that I wanted it to devolve into politics but I knew it would. And it skipped into completely different charged issues within 3 posts. I tried to make it light hearted and joke about everyones opinion including mine.
There is an awful lot of misinformation and political gaming. If one surfs through the NJDEP site and the Oersted site you can read the permits and plans and propsed effects on marine mammals and the view from the beaches.

This is a big issue for boaters and fishermen. They are beginning to build giant fields of immovable objects and lay miles of cable. There will be a massive amount of work boats, tugs and barges.. day & night. Will they close off access to the area? Will they stage equipment inland where it will slow down boaters? Will it suck up dock space?

When you look at the leased areas you can see that this is decades of work. These are areas with long used fishing spots like the 28 mile wreck and the Cigar.
The map I posted does not show the northern leases that will effect Long Island, NY boaters