painting grady bracket

[Z]

i am going to be painting the top half of my bracket this spring and could use some advice, its a 1990 grady with the typ big old bracket

yes it leaks and no i will not be pulling it off and replacing it

any advice on the do it yourself paint job that will come out half decent? what types of paint can i use on the alum that can be rolled on not sprayed

thanks in advance

 

[gw204]

If you plan to keep the boat, do yourself a favor and pull it off at least for sand blasting and evaluation. If after it's blasted you find significant amounts of corrosion, just recycle it and get a new bracket. An R-0 from D&D Marine will set you back a mere $700 if you're looking to get off cheap, but I would recommend a fiberglass bracket (they don't corrode) instead.

If the bracket is structurally sound, you should be able to reuse it. However, I'll defer refinishing methods to those that know more about it than I do.

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

PM Jimmy, from Jimmy's marine.He is the expert on this topic.

 

[CaptKennyW]

Im no expert but i have done it on mine...

I sandblasted it down to bear metal, then i used TEMPO zink primer (its a yellowish green color) in a spray can, then i did like 4 coats of Primocon underwater metal primer on it. then i did like 3 coats of Trilux 33 paint. It looks good for a do it your selfer job and it doesnt leak!!! Whatever you do dont use any thing that has copper in it. I think the only thing jimmy does differently is he etch-primes them with acid of some sort.

 

[BobP]

The leaks may or may not be from galvanic corrosion.
Do you know where it is leaking from?

If not, and it's out of the water, open a lower plate and fill the drive with water from a garden hose (ONLY DO THIS IF THE FOAM BLOCKS ARE VISIBLE INSIDE). Let it sit as long as you want. It may be as simple as a lower engine mount bolt.

On the paint, above the water line, I use the TEMPO spray on primer - zinc chromate or zinc phosphate, and I found a match to OMC outboard engine spray paint for the top coat.

Interlux does make non-aerosol products, but they recommend a many multi step process for aluminun. I can't be bothered. Satisfied with my 2 step process.


ANOTHER GRADY DRIVE SAVED !!

 

[jimmy's marine service]

i am going to be painting the top half of my bracket this spring and could use some advice, its a 1990 grady with the typ big old bracket

yes it leaks and no i will not be pulling it off and replacing it

any advice on the do it yourself paint job that will come out half decent? what types of paint can i use on the alum that can be rolled on not sprayed

thanks in advance

well...if it needs to be refinished,you're gonna have to pull it off along with the engine...i highly reccomend you sand blast it,followed by an "etch prime",followed by epoxy barrier coat,then more sanding,then a top coat,or finsh coat...if the boat is kept in a slip,then you're gonna have to use the correct antifouling paint application-search my posts,you'll find a wealth of information in them...

i avoid the cheap "tempo spray cans",this stuff is about worthless...
the reason i etch prime,is because for anything to properly adhere to aluminum,the surface needs to first be etch primed...
let me know if you would like to see pics....

as far as the leaks go...well,once again,you're probably gonna end up removing the bracket to reseal it to the transom...like brian stated,after blasting,if the bracket has signs of galvanic corrosion,it's gonna need to be replaced,there is no real repair for aluminum after it's galvanically corroded,some may choose to debate this,however,they're wrong...
again,i suggest you search my posts,you're gonna find all the info you need..including how to check out the transom....

 

[BobP]

Etch priming is a waste of money, as long as you follow the procedure below, as explained below, but you are free to do it any way you want,
Only if you are a DIY and on a budget, read on -

The standard sales pitch presumes etch priming is creating a different surface on the aluminun than sandpaper does, absurd, as long as you prime the metal as soon as you are done sanding to bare metal (the same day- sand in morning paint in afternoon, or sooner) Paint only on dry sunny, days above the mininum recommended ambient temps.

If you wait to apply regular primer another day than sanding day, then you should etch prime. Etch priming clears the oxide, that's all it does, so does sandpaper. And it also seals the surface to prevent oxide formation, should you not follow the etch with the next step right away. Regular primer seals it also, no need to do the final coat right away.

Here's more info - as soon as you are done sanding to bare metal, and turn your back to walk away, it begins to form aluminum oxide, you don't see it, but if you wait long enough (depending on climate) it will turn dull first, then the white powder forms. The same happens to carbon steel, but the red plume is more noticable.

Paint manufacturers like Intelux wants to assure their paint succeeds, and they don't know your climate nor the above sand/prime paint schedule you have, so that's why they recommend it.

Further, don't believe any nonesense about opening pores in the metal. The only pores around are those in your skin.

When I use the tempo zinc phosphate or zinc chromate spray, it never comes off. The interlux primer is a similar zinc rich primer, in liquid or spray cans.

As usual, I will continue offering cost savings ideas, and bust the myths by providing the reasoning behind it, for you to decide what is what.

Have no fear of paint failing and having to do all over if you don't etch prime!
Just plain educational down to earth info - FOR DIYers ONLY, I Repeat DIYers ONLY.

Another myth busted!
Written by a non-professional, non expert (what could I possibly know??)

 

[jehines3]

I don;t see how etch priming is a waste of money. This project requires the use of primer regardless. I would use a etch primer just to be safe. If you are chosing a primer, why not chose one that is indeed BEST suited for the use of priming bare metal. Regular primer will work, it's just if I'm already buying a can of primer why not buy one that is best suited for the job. I'm a DIY guy too with no professional paint experience, but the cost difference between an etch and std primer is negligible. If I were paying a yard to do the work I would want Jimmy's method (it just happens to the be Dupont method as well).

Even if I use an etch primer I still do use a tie coat primer compatible with etch and top coat material. jh

EDIT: I'm curius if anyone would suggest the use of Interpotect 2000E system on the bracket. It is supposed to be for SS prep. I'm considering using as a base on my trim tabs once the bottom is stripped. It is listed on the interprotect specs for SS. Now this would be a debatable cost as an interprotect kit is about $90 retail. jh

 

[BobP]

Etch priming is a pre-application to the regular Interlux zinc based primer, see Interlux website, in their handbook - given out at stores also - look under aluminum. The manual has the entire process.

It's almost clear in color and very thin, not like paint at all. It's more like a wash. Since it's so thin, coverage is huge, and the smallest can leaves as it seemed enough to do an entire boat (as I recall).

That's not the point, if you or anyone feels they need to do exactly what it says in the manual, including using the etchant, go ahead.

To say or suggest if you don't do it per manual (using etchant), it will fail and peel off, is what I'm writing about. It's too easy for those who don't pay the tab at the checkout line to write this way.

But heck, I'm not an Interlux professional paint expert. And so it goes then, the more one spends at the checkout line the better the job, right?

I sand then paint immediately what I have sanded, so etchant is not for me buddy !

 

[jehines3]

Why anyone would put roughly 40 hours into a project like this to do it right, and then try and skip on $23.00.

Based on his original post he was looking for a short get thorugh season or two approach. The big thing on these brackets if saved early enough you'll avoid the need to replace them, thus saving big time in the long run.

As my dad says, "Penny wise, dollar foolish"

jh

 

[gw204]

Uh oh....this thread is about to go down the toilet.... :?

 

[CaptKennyW]

to each there own remember jimmy can pass his costs along to the customer if you dont have a lot of money to blow you can skip it.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

here we go again...

to each there own remember jimmy can pass his costs along to the customer if you dont have a lot of money to blow you can skip it.

here we go again....this is the kinda stuff that chaps my butt...is this supposed to mean,i over charge for my work ???
save it....i give an incredible amount of useful advice,stuff you can't get anywhere-FOR FREE !!!! i explain,in detail,THE PROPER,ACCEPTED,way fo doing a repair...you guys can do what ever you wish...
personally,i wouldn't follow a thing that jack ass "bobp" states,he's clearly a clueless moron...read some of ingenius ideas :roll: :roll: read the "wiring a 228" thread as well...this guy explains exactly how to make connection...terrible mess....

if i recall there kenny,you asked me about rebuilding your pulpit,right ?? i gave you a guestimate,you probably had a heart attack when you got it,right ??? there's a reason things cost what they do...it's called "WORTH IT'' !!!!!!!!
i edited this to add this...

i drink heineken,not budweiser,ya know why ??? it's better beer..down side...it costs much more...

fishing equipment...i prefer penn internationals,not shimano reels...again,ya know why...the internationals are a much better product...they also cost much more than shimano tld's...

now here's the anology of this all...will i get a buzz from budweiser ??? sure...
can i fish with shimano reels,sure...there's what's called "quality" and then there's the "budget price"...if you want the budget price,you don't wanna see me...
there's an old saying..."price alone will not provide a true comparrison of value"...remember that....

 

[Grog]

Do whatever you feel comfortable with but after removing the engines, the bracket, sand blasting it, then refinishing it, reinstall the bracket and re-rig the engines why skimp on $25.


Jimmy's ways are not always the only (right) way but his ways do work.

 

[jimmy's marine service]

Jimmy's ways are not always the only (right) way but his ways do work.

that's absolutley true...but YOU sure reference my posts alot...and you sure "pm" me alot for free advice....right ??? :wink:

 

[CaptKennyW]

ok im going to put my .02 in here since i was called out. Jimmy im not saying you charge to much im sure the work you do is excellent better than anything i could hope for with my DIY skills. Im sure the gusstimate you gave me was a good one and i saw the work you did on the other guys pulpit was A-1 top quality. Im not knocking you!! If you wernt in NJ i would take my boat to you when i can afford it to get stuff done that I cant do..eg I want to paint the top half of my boat, get the pulpit redone, and have a windlass installed, ect... I cant afford it!!! im 24 and work on a tugboat as a DECKHAND i make a lot less than any other person up here thats why i have to DIY.

oh and I drink Michelob Amber and use shimano reels...

i responded to your PM, dont take things so seriously!

 

[Grog]

Jimmy's ways are not always the only (right) way but his ways do work.

that's absolutley true...but YOU sure reference my posts alot...and you sure "pm" me alot for free advice....right ??? :wink:

Yea and you didn't answer the last one. :lol:

 

[BobP]

The professional makes a statement, another one supports him -

Jimmy says "cheap Tempo spray cans".. "about worthless"

Why not state specifically why it is so?

1. Does TEMPO manufacture paint ?
2. If not (that was a clue), who's paint is in the can ?
3. State specifically, in technical terms like: service life, 10,000 hour salt spray test standard, or whatever standards the professional engineer wants, to what makes this paint "cheap" and "about worthless" compared to the other paints HE ONLY USES.

Then the DIY members can decide if the added cost is worth it to them. Sound reasonable ?

I'M NOT ASHAMED OF MY WORKING CLASS EARNED INCOME HERITAGE.
I"M PROUD OF IT, IT BUILT AND CONTINUES TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY. The professionals here have no respect for people like me.

Now back to paint, of course they won't be able to answer my questions above, as usual.

I offered an alternative and explained the basis of how and when etchant is needed, and how you can avoid it's need by just sanding just prior to regular prime coat.

Since I was knee high operating my Dad's Sportwin Evinrude 9.9 outboard on a rental wood rowboat out of Skidmores in Moriches Bay, they have been made of the same aluminum alloys as todays, and the same two products (primer and topcoat) you can find to paint them, I/Os, too, on the shelf at your marine store of choice. I guess the Grady drive is not to be treated the same as outboards and I/Os, even though it's alloy composition is similar.

For the members who continue to support the personal attacks in a desparate move to further the attempts in undermining all other opinions except one, with the excuse of "a colorful approach", wait until the day it turns against you, even if you are on the short list, as we have seen recently on another post. Then you can see how colorfull you think it is.

For the original poster that I intended to assist, I wonder what "Z"s drive will become ?

 

[jehines3]

I'm an avid DIY boater with not much disposable income after gas for fishing.

I drink cheap (whatever's on sale) been in a can and use Penn 330GTi reels.

As for supporting the colorful approach, I absolutly do. Funny thing is you guys are both passionate about boats and working on them. As of late you are both Colorful.

I guess this board has turned into a clicky chat room with not much left to offer the GW public. I guess there are the pro Jimmy groups and the no Jimmy groups. I'm still undecided.

EDIT: BobP I respect you too....jh

 

[jimmy's marine service]

here we go again...

The professional makes a statement, another one supports him -

Jimmy says "cheap Tempo spray cans".. "about worthless"

Why not state specifically why it is so?

1. Does TEMPO manufacture paint ?
2. If not (that was a clue), who's paint is in the can ?
3. State specifically, in technical terms like: service life, 10,000 hour salt spray test standard, or whatever standards the professional engineer wants, to what makes this paint "cheap" and "about worthless" compared to the other paints HE ONLY USES.

Then the DIY members can decide if the added cost is worth it to them. Sound reasonable ?

I'M NOT ASHAMED OF MY WORKING CLASS EARNED INCOME HERITAGE.
I"M PROUD OF IT, IT BUILT AND CONTINUES TO BUILD THIS COUNTRY. The professionals here have no respect for people like me.

Now back to paint, of course they won't be able to answer my questions above, as usual.

I offered an alternative and explained the basis of how and when etchant is needed, and how you can avoid it's need by just sanding just prior to regular prime coat.

Since I was knee high operating my Dad's Sportwin Evinrude 9.9 outboard on a rental wood rowboat out of Skidmores in Moriches Bay, they have been made of the same aluminum alloys as todays, and the same two products (primer and topcoat) you can find to paint them, I/Os, too, on the shelf at your marine store of choice. I guess the Grady drive is not to be treated the same as outboards and I/Os, even though it's alloy composition is similar.

For the members who continue to support the personal attacks in a desparate move to further the attempts in undermining all other opinions except one, with the excuse of "a colorful approach", wait until the day it turns against you, even if you are on the short list, as we have seen recently on another post. Then you can see how colorfull you think it is.

For the original poster that I intended to assist, I wonder what "Z"s drive will become ?

you just love to argue...well...here you go...

first,i suggest you click on this link,it dispells alot of myths you have come up with...
http://www.greatgrady.com/forum/viewtop ... ol+upgrade

the tempo paints,i don't use that stuff,i've never seen it last for more than a week or two...i etch prime aluminum,reason being it's the accepted way of doing things...
here's a picture of a bracket,it belonged to "finest kind" len...look at the peeling paint...note the color of it ??? zinc chromate primer...
why don't you ask len how many times he attempted painting it ???

this paint will not hold up,sorry bob,wrong again...

this is a bracket that was sand blasted,it was painted with the incorrect paint,it was not pourous,i refinished it..

note the surface...here's the bracket coated in epoxy barrier coat,after it's been etch primed...the white primer is duratec,this is to be the painted surface,the grey area,is to be coated in antifouling paint-tin based...

this is the epoxy barrier coat i use..

this is the bracket refinished and installed...

that my friend is the correct way to do it...
granted there are other ways to skin a cat,i don't claim my way is the only way,what i claim is,it lasts...

and "working class",well bob,exactly what do you think i am ??? i work 7 days a week in the season,at least 12hrs a day...how 'bout you ???
i enjoy the fruits of my labor",i also enjoy the reputation of my buisness,that would be quality...you can have at your claims and your half assed repair ideas,remember this,you're ht guy who tends to ignore abyc,as well as coast guard cfr's...
colorful huh ??? intersting,the claims you make,one that sticks in my mind,the holes in your transom being completley sealed,well...click on the link,it's clearly shown to be false,as with everyting else you state...
i've got nothing personal against you,if you gave useful or truthful information,i would never state anything against it-remember that... :wink: