power trim and tilt

[lazy grady]

2/22/24 Went to boat. Cut battery switch on. When I hit PT&T switch to lower motor, motor would not go down even though PT&T motor was running. PT&T motor ran continuously until I cut battery switch off. Tried operation several times, same result. Lowered motor manually. When I cut battery switch on, motor came up without me operating pt&t at throttle. Would still not go down. same results. . Cut battery switch off. Mechanic came 2 hours later everything worked fine

 

[glacierbaze]

Sounds like the relay. Don't know what motor you have, but there is probably a video to trouble shoot your relay on YouTube, definitely for Yamaha. I assume you were using the helm switch. If it happens again, try unplugging the switch on the side of the engine, under the cowling, to see if it is the problem.
Not sure if you still get power to that engine switch if you unplug the helm switch to test the opposite way.

 

[lazy grady]

2009 Yamaha F-250 with say 700 hours. Serviced annually. Thinking of greasing the rods on motor as well as putting electronic lubricant in throttle handle. Concerning in that "if it ain't broke, it is hard to fix"!!!!

 

[Fishtales]

Can be sticky switches too. Check if they raise and lower on the motor itself. If so, check the switches at the helm. Twins have one per motor and one dual switch. I've sprayed them with WD a couple of times over the years when I observed the problem (an electrical moisture attack spray). Seems to clear it right up.

 

[lazy grady]

sounds right. my switch at the motor does not work. where is the switch at the helm, in the throttle handle? Do I just remove the cover and spray wd in it?

 

[glacierbaze]

Yes, your PT&T switch in the throttle. Just spray WD right on it, they sometimes hang up on the edge of the switch frame. If the one in the engine doesn't work, unplug it, it may be the problem. It is an easy plug and play replacement.

 

[seasick]

2009 Yamaha F-250 with say 700 hours. Serviced annually. Thinking of greasing the rods on motor as well as putting electronic lubricant in throttle handle. Concerning in that "if it ain't broke, it is hard to fix"!!!!

It is not recommended to grease the ram rods. You should put a dab of grease on the rod end though. It is also not recommended to wipe the rods with paper towels. The reason to not grease the rods is to reduce the chance of dirt, grime or other contaminants from sticking to the rods and getting drawn into the seals. The reason for not cleaning the rods with paper towels is similar. Paper towels contain abrasive fibers.

With respect to the problem, I would remove the cowling and with the power off, remove the two wires that run from the tilt relay to the tilt motor. They usually have colors marked on them, green and blue maybe?
Using jumpers, connect the two wires to a battery and the tilt moto should run ( up or down depending on how you connect to the battery. Reversing the connection and the pump runs in the opposite direction.
If you are able to raise and lower the motor as it should work, the trim and tilt assemble is good.
The next step is to reconnect the two trim motor wires back to their respective terminals on the relay. See if you can get the trim motor to do nothing. Do not touch the helm trim switch. Using the lower cowl mounted trim switch, see if that works correctly If it does, your issue may be at the helm ow chaffed wires.
If up and down don't work at the cowling switch, your relay may be bad. You can try hitting it a few times with a small hammer and see if that makes a difference. I it does, the relay is sticking and needs to be replaced.
The two more common failure points for your issues are the relay and the trim switch at the helm

 

[glacierbaze]

Blue is up(sky), and green is down(grass). My tilt motor on 225 OX66 is 4 wire, and when testing with a battery, both the black ground and one of the blue or green wires have to be grounded for the other to run the tilt motor.
When connected to the relay, and you hit up on the switch, the green goes to ground, and vice versa.

 

[lazy grady]

Blue is up(sky), and green is down(grass). My tilt motor on 225 OX66 is 4 wire, and when testing with a battery, both the black ground and one of the blue or green wires have to be grounded for the other to run the tilt motor.
When connected to the relay, and you hit up on the switch, the green goes to ground, and vice versa.

2/25/24 Thanks to all! My mechanical skills are limited. Locating the various wires, relays, trim motor and cowl/throttle switches maybe difficult? I will take a look however.

Went back to the boat yesterday. Same problem. Turned battery switch on, pt&t started operating immediately with me NOT pressing any pt&t switches. I rotated the battery switch from 1 to 2 to both. The pt&t motor cut off and all worked normally.
I left the outboard in the water. I plan to use the boat today.

QUESTION: If pt&t motor comes on by itself while I am using the boat, what can I do to stop the pt&t motor? Unhook certain wires?

I do plan to open the throttle case and lubricate the pt&t switch with electronic lubricant or wd before using the boat.

Thoughts???

 

[seasick]

If that happens while at sea, shut off the motor first to avoid possible injury or damage to the motor as will happen if the running motor gets tilted up out of the water.. The only way to stop trim and tilt is to turn off the battery switches which will kill both motors. Then you have to pull the main fuse under the cowling to disable everything on that motor. Since you say you are not that experience with motor wiring and such, pulling the main fuse probably won't be something you can do.
Personally, I would get the issue fixed before venturing out.

 

[ttles714]

The Green in down and the blue is up ... you got that right ..... what you are describing can only be caused by 2 possibilities .. Either the engine mounted TnT switch or the Binical mounted TnT switch are "shorted " out ... ( not really shorted but a contact making when not supposed to ) OR the engine mounted TnT relay has a similar issue .... That relay will have a black ground wire, a blue UP wire, and a green DOWN wire... there are also Several red hot wires. .. .. the lighter gauge wires to the relay (same colors, G, Bl, Bk) energize the relay coils and send power to the tilt motor via the heavy gauge G,Bl, Bk wires. ... The green wire does not turn into a ground ... EXample>> for the tilt motor to bring the engine up, you would push a switch which would send 12VDC to the UP coil of the relay via the light gauge black and blue wires. This would activate the relay and make a contact between the heavy gauge red wires of the relay and the heavy gauge blue wire going to the trim motor.

 

[DennisG01]

Sounds like a sticking relay - probably the "up" side which is why the engine isn't moving.

 

[glacierbaze]

May be too late for today, but when you go to the boat, remove the engine cowling, or prop it up enough to get your hands on the plug to the t/t switch on the engine. Don't move the wiring or operate the switch. Turn the power on, if the t/t motor runs unplug the switch under the cowling, and see if it stops. You said in post #5 that that switch doesn't work anyway, so leave it unplugged.
If it stops, that is probably your problem. If the t/t motor continues to run, you have eliminated that switch, which leaves the helm switch, or the relay.

 

[DennisG01]

May be too late for today, but when you go to the boat, remove the engine cowling, or prop it up enough to get your hands on the plug to the t/t switch on the engine. Don't move the wiring or operate the switch. Turn the power on, if the t/t motor runs unplug the switch under the cowling, and see if it stops. You said in post #5 that that switch doesn't work anyway, so leave it unplugged.
If it stops, that is probably your problem. If the t/t motor continues to run, you have eliminated that switch, which leaves the helm switch, or the relay.

Good idea - easy enough to do to first eliminate/prove that variable.

 

[itsaball]

2/22/24 Went to boat. Cut battery switch on. When I hit PT&T switch to lower motor, motor would not go down even though PT&T motor was running. PT&T motor ran continuously until I cut battery switch off. Tried operation several times, same result. Lowered motor manually. When I cut battery switch on, motor came up without me operating pt&t at throttle. Would still not go down. same results. . Cut battery switch off. Mechanic came 2 hours later everything worked fine

I had exactly the same problem with my boat during the summer of 2022. My wife and i were on a trip in our GW Express and stopped for the night along the coast in VA. As always we washed the salt off of the boat and engines. The engines were tilted up and I think a little excessive water got in the side openings in the cowlings on the port engine. Never thinking anything about it at the time, when I woke up the next morning I heard a pump running which happened to be the Trim and tilt pump. I immediately turned off the battery switch to that engine until I could think Turned it back on an the pump was running again. On my boat the PT&T buttons on the binnacle are not energized without the key switch being on (helm master). With that, I knew my issue was a local problem at the engine. I called my mechanic and asked for some wiring schematics on the engine and I learned the wiring difference between the helm control and the cowling switch control. I DISCONNECTED the cowl PT&T (side) switch and the pump stopped. I did, however, have control of trim and tilt at the helm while running. He suggested that if it was moisture, to leave the cowling off for the day while I was at the dock and let the sun dry out any moisture. Later in the evening, I put the wires back on the terminals and the pump functioned fine however I left them off for the remainder of the trip. The conclusion was moisture in or around the switch or in a connector between the cowl switch and the relay. I connected back up at the end of the season never to have any more problems but have seen to it that connections are moisture less, however, I do now know what to disconnect if it should happen at sea because I have a triple chance of it happening!

 

[lazy grady]

I had exactly the same problem with my boat during the summer of 2022. My wife and i were on a trip in our GW Express and stopped for the night along the coast in VA. As always we washed the salt off of the boat and engines. The engines were tilted up and I think a little excessive water got in the side openings in the cowlings on the port engine. Never thinking anything about it at the time, when I woke up the next morning I heard a pump running which happened to be the Trim and tilt pump. I immediately turned off the battery switch to that engine until I could think Turned it back on a the pump was running again. On my boat the PT&T buttons on the binnacle are not energized without the key switch being on (helm master). With that, I knew my issue was a local problem at the engine. I called my mechanic and asked for some wiring schematics on the engine and I learned the wiring difference between the helm control and the cowling switch control. I DISCONNECTED the cowl PT&T (side) switch and the pump stopped. I did, however, have control of trim and tilt at the helm while running. He suggested that if it was moisture, to leave the cowling off for the day while I was at the dock and let the sun dry out any moisture. Later in the evening, I put the wires back on the terminals and the pump functioned fine however I left them off for the remainder of the trip. The conclusion was moisture in or around the switch or in a connector between the cowl switch and the relay. I connected back up at the end of the season never to have any more problems but have seen to it that connections are moisture less, however, I do now know what to disconnect if it should happen at sea because I have a triple chance of it happening!

2/27/24 Thanks a bunch. It appears I need to disconnect the pt&t switch that is on the starboard side of the motor? If this is the problem switch, not at the throttle; perhaps the issue will be resolved? I note that the switch on the motor has not been operable for several months. I elected to not have it replaced.

Assuming disconnecting the switch at the motor is how I move forward, is this something I can do? (Directions please)?

 

[DennisG01]

2/27/24 Thanks a bunch. It appears I need to disconnect the pt&t switch that is on the starboard side of the motor? If this is the problem switch, not at the throttle; perhaps the issue will be resolved? I note that the switch on the motor has not been operable for several months. I elected to not have it replaced.

Assuming disconnecting the switch at the motor is how I move forward, is this something I can do? (Directions please)?

Correct. Don't worry - you don't need any special directions. It will be VERY obvious once you look at it. Just follow the wires. It will take you less time to figure it out than it took me to write this

 

[lazy grady]

Correct. Don't worry - you don't need any special directions. It will be VERY obvious once you look at it. Just follow the wires. It will take you less time to figure it out than it took me to write this

Great. I will try it today.

 

[lazy grady]

Great. I will try it today.

2/28/24 took cowl off. Pt&t switch unhooked. Question: could moisture still be the problem? Note 2 switch ends were laying in the bottom of the motor. One had salt corrosion on a terminal.

Thinking, clean them up, then tape them up. It appears from U Tube and my mechanic that replacing the switch is a bear?

 

[DennisG01]

It "could be" moisture... but it's probably lower down on the possibility list. Start with seeing what happens with it disconnected. Give it at least a couple outings to see if the problem stays away. Slop the connections with grease - then add tape if you want to.

I guess the replacement depends on access - I've done this on a couple different engines, including my 2-stroke 250HP and it was a pretty mundane/easy thing. Although I haven't done it on your engine, off hand I can't think of why it would be different?