ProMariner died 300 Marlin

[Angler Management]

2007 GW Marlin looks like the ProMariner charger is dead. I have my batteries set up this way: 1 starting battery for each engine, isolated from two batteries that are my "house bank" that are charged by any excess voltage from the starters. So functionally three batteries. It has worked well for 5 years.

I'd be fine buying the current version of the ProMariner to replace the existing one, but was curious if anyone had any better ideas. I'm pretty committed to my 3 bank setup... so need 3 leads. But always interested in the wisdom on this forum before purchasing something new.

Thanks in advance,

R

 

[wspitler]

Since you really have four batteries, the engineers recommend a four bank charger. Apparently the smart chargers can tell the difference between a bank of two batteries and a separate battery. There is more to it than current and voltage. I went to a four bank charger for two banks of parallel batteries and have had very good luck with longevity and quality. Based on my experience I’d recommend a four bank charger with two leads to each battery.

 

[Angler Management]

Since you really have four batteries, the engineers recommend a four bank charger. Apparently the smart chargers can tell the difference between a bank of two batteries and a separate battery. There is more to it than current and voltage. I went to a four bank charger for two banks of parallel batteries and have had very good luck with longevity and quality. Based on my experience I’d recommend a four bank charger with two leads to each battery.

This is why I ask these questions...! Now that you mention it I do recall this tip being brought up in the past. Thank you so much!

 

[Angler Management]

I see the ProMariner 3 bank is $170 and the ProMariner 4 bank is of course $500... :/

I suppose amortizing it out over the 15 year lifespan isn't that big a deal, especially for such a critical piece of equipment. Anyone have good experience with other brands? Recommendations?

 

[Angler Management]

I suppose I could use a 2 bank charger with leads to the two start batteries... because charge in excess of 13.2V goes to the house bank? My gut says there's something wrong with this, however... please advise.

 

[seasick]

I assume that you have a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) that connects the positive terminal of the starter battery to the house battery when the charging voltage is greater than 13.7 or so volts.
Since your system ran 5 years, I guess it's fair to say the setup worked but charging dissimilar battery types is not ideal. I am also assuming that you house batteries are deep cycle and you starting batters are not.
The optimal arrangement would be a 4 port charger that has ports that can be individually configured for the battery type (like AGMs, flooded cells etc).
I would call ProMariner and ask what charger they recommend for your battery config and isolation devices. Although it may not be applicable in your case, not all multiport chargers are capable of charging different types of battery such as AGMs with flooded cells.

One potential issue with your CURRENT ( pardon the pun) arrangement is that the house batteries wont be charged at the dock if the charge voltage does not exceed 13.7 or so volts which the charger will not output when the starting batteries are charged. So if you accidentally leave something on (like a light or electronics, it is possible that the house battery could be totally run down.

 

[Angler Management]

I assume that you have a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) that connects the positive terminal of the starter battery to the house battery when the charging voltage is greater than 13.7 or so volts.
Since your system ran 5 years, I guess it's fair to say the setup worked but charging dissimilar battery types is not ideal. I am also assuming that you house batteries are deep cycle and you starting batters are not.
The optimal arrangement would be a 4 port charger that has ports that can be individually configured for the battery type (like AGMs, flooded cells etc).
I would call ProMariner and ask what charger they recommend for your battery config and isolation devices. Although it may not be applicable in your case, not all multiport chargers are capable of charging different types of battery such as AGMs with flooded cells.

One potential issue with your CURRENT ( pardon the pun) arrangement is that the house batteries wont be charged at the dock if the charge voltage does not exceed 13.7 or so volts which the charger will not output when the starting batteries are charged. So if you accidentally leave something on (like a light or electronics, it is possible that the house battery could be totally run down.

Thank you, good tips.
Correct, VSR's from each start battery to the house bank. True is the MFG and opens at 13.4V closes at 12.9V
All four batteries are deep cycle, two GRP 24 for starters and 2 GRP 31 house. I don't have the CCA data handy but it seems to work ok.

Regardless it sounds like 4 bank is definitely the way to go. ProMariner seems to be the market leader. Any other brand I should compare to? Guest and others seem to not have the other things I'm needing like waterproofing etc...

 

[Hookup1]

The ProMariners have had issues with the fuse holders melting. You could grab them and feel the heat when doing a heavy charge. The latest units have a much better setup.

Most of my problems were fuse holders but I have had two units go "dark" that I replaced. I get 4 or 5 years out of them. They are good chargers and cheap enough to replace.

Not sure I buy this 2 parallel battery with 2 banks connected really does anything. Don't understand how the charger can detect two batteries in parallel. These chargers have a bank switching capability to shift its 20 amps around as needed. You can't get more than 20 amps out. I run my 4 batteries separately and have 4 banks all charging separately.

 

[TortugaBob]

I replaced my OEM Guest with DualPro, you might look at these, had the 15A Dual for 4 batteries, 2 banks parallel. Closest match to original. Made in USA, been solid after a couple years. I have a 3 bank version on an older bay boat, still going after many years. Yes, it will cost you more.

Professional Series — Pro Charging Systems

www.dualpro.com

 

[SkunkBoat]

If the house is two parallel batteries (hardwired together) they are one battery. The charger can only see them as one battery.
You would have to split them for the charger to treat them separately. That would require a switch or a relay.

I have a setup like yours,. Two separate start batteries and a parallel bak of two for the house. I use a ProMariner 3 bank charger. Works great

 

[dogdoc]

ditto what skunk says dont over think a simple problem

 

[Angler Management]

ditto what skunk says dont over think a simple problem

That's been my setup for a while now. Three leads. But manual and "others" say no. It is probably fine. Just looking for answers. Thanks!

 

[SkunkBoat]

That's been my setup for a while now. Three leads. But manual and "others" say no. It is probably fine. Just looking for answers. Thanks!

To parallel batteries, you should connect the House take-off leads and charger leads "cross-corner". Otherwise there is the tiny difference of resistance from having a longer wire path to bat2. I know it doesn't seem like much but in a 12v dDC circuit it can mean a lot if there is a high current draw.

I can't see any benefit to having two charge leads from the same charge source, other than possibly giving you the same charge current split between two wires.

 

[Angler Management]

OK I spoke to ProMariner. Here's there answer, summarized by me, not quoted, I"m just using quotes to generalize what they said.

"The ProMariner chargers have computerization that works for Group 24, 27 and 31 batteries. By connecting two Group 31 batteries in parallel you no longer have a group 31, and using a ProMariner charger in this way will create a situation where there could be overheating due to improper current flow that could shorten the lifespan of your charger." They suggested using their 4 lead charger.

This is just for ProMariner, and based on whatever programming technology they use.

I understand that a battery connected in parallel should "look" like one battery, but I suppose if you're developing a computer system to control current flow for various different situations you could get out of spec if you start getting outside the original design parameters.

That's what they said at least. Running it my way works. But also, maybe that's why I'm buying a new one....

Here's the owners manual
https://www.promariner.com/-/media/inriver/10000010952-00.pdf?modified=20191030133417

Page 8 says you don't need to remove parallel batteries to charge.

However, Page 14 says "connect to INDIVIDUAL BATTERIES", this is where the confusion sets in. Then, Page 21 shows a parallel system with "only one battery" again. It never shows two batteries in parallel without two different leads going to the individual batteries.

On the topic of charging through VSR... page 11 says it raises the charge to over 14V, so it would open my True VSR and charge the house bank. Unsure whether this will blow up the charger... I should have asked

 

[SkunkBoat]

They they made the wire capable of handling up to a single Grp31. So they are covering their ass by stating that one pair of wires is for only one battery in all situations. Makes sense.

I won't argue against it. If you had a really discharged bank of two and turned on the charger you would, I assume, risk overloading a single set of wires and/or charging circuit. Not sure they are actually separate circuits but that is another matter.

But they state what I stated, a parallel bank is ONE big battery. Their circuit(s) still see it as one big battery and charge it as one big battery. It can't do anything else unless you un-parallel the batteries.

 

[Angler Management]

They they made the wire capable of handling up to a single Grp31. So they are covering their ass by stating that one pair of wires is for only one battery in all situations. Makes sense.

I won't argue against it. If you had a really discharged bank of two and turned on the charger you would, I assume, risk overloading a single set of wires and/or charging circuit. Not sure they are actually separate circuits but that is another matter.

But they state what I stated, a parallel bank is ONE big battery. Their circuit(s) still see it as one big battery and charge it as one big battery. It can't do anything else unless you un-parallel the batteries.

I suppose there's a lawyer at ProMariner and after one meeting he said "Only tell the client what you can prove". So they told me the recommended specs and not a word more. I can argue about how batteries are "seen" from the outside, but I can't argue about what software ProMariner is using to "see" and set up a charge profile for that battery... I'm just not that smart. It would seem to me that if my parallel system needs two leads, there could be a problem with the leads that are sent to my starting motors that "overflow" to my house bank. How does the computer deal with the inability to top off my starting batteries due to overcurrent going to the house? How do the charger leads to my house deal with the extra voltage coming from the overflow from the TWO start batteries being charged?

I'm tapped out. All I now know is 1) this has been a great mental exercise, and 2) ProMariner definitely recommends a 4 lead charger for my setup. Why they recommend that and if it is actually worth anything in the real world is still debatable.

Hopefully this can help someone on the forum down the road.

 

[dogdoc]

full disclosure, i have promariner 30 amp, 3 bank, distributive charger. set up with start 1, start 2 and house ( 2 bats paralled) all marine start/deep cycle. promariner manual said distribution of the 30 amps would be prioritized to the bank needed more charge if needed. that said max output would be 30 amps to one bank and 0 to the others. output wires are 10 ga and each lead is fused with a 40 amp fuse as promariner requires. a quick search of "battery group" showed that group only defines physical size and location of terminals, does not mention capacity. the only variable i recall setting up the charger was to tell it what type of batteries it was charging, ie flooded, agm, gel etc. i assume that is needed so the charger knows which voltage algorithm to use to determine state of charge and thus current sent to the bank. state of charge based on real time capacity would require more input to charger than i see being supplied, most obvious is battery temp. so if a charger only uses voltage algorithm to determine state of charge, capacity of the battery is inconsequential and doubling the capacity by a parallel circut should not matter.

 

[seasick]

In theory that makes a lot of sense. The variable in the real world is that the two batteries may not have the same characteristics (especially if different ages or manufacturer). If the standing voltages are different, one battery will drain the other). Than may cause a charger to use a non optimal profile for deep charging or maintainer charging.. I doubt that is bad for the charger buy may not be great for the battery bank.

 

[wbdenamur]

Thank you, good tips.
Correct, VSR's from each start battery to the house bank. True is the MFG and opens at 13.4V closes at 12.9V
All four batteries are deep cycle, two GRP 24 for starters and 2 GRP 31 house. I don't have the CCA data handy but it seems to work ok.

Regardless it sounds like 4 bank is definitely the way to go. ProMariner seems to be the market leader. Any other brand I should compare to? Guest and others seem to not have the other things I'm needing like waterproofing etc...

I have changed to the 4 bank NOCO Genius and have never looked back or regretted it. I threw away my unreliable Pro Mariner.

 

[Hookup1]

I have a 1-bank NOCO installed. When the ProMariner 3-bank goes I will consider the NOCO. Not sure it fixed amperage or load shifts to charge batteries.