Questions/concerns about possibly purchasing a 228 Seafarer...

[Mustang65fbk]

Good afternoon everyone. I have some questions/concerns about possibly purchasing a 1999 GW 228 Seafarer and would love some suggestions or opinions. I'll attach the link for the ad to the boat below, but long story short... the boat is pending sale and being held for me at this point but there are a few issues with the boat. First, the hull is a 1999 and the motor is a 2007 Suzuki 225hp 4 stroke outboard of which on the ad they said it only had 280 hours on the motor. Well... they took it into their service department to double check the hours on the motor and now come to find out, it's jumped up to 723.7 hours on the motor. The hours don't really concern me that much as over half of those are at trolling speeds or less than 2k rpm but they also checked the compression and did a read out on the hours as well as any alarms the motor has had. The lowest compression was at 185 psi on the 3rd cylinder whereas the highest was at 200 psi on the 2nd cylinder. I don't know a ton about outboard motors but I'm wondering if that's an issue that might be discussed next, which would be that the computer readout says that the motor has had 19 overheating alarms, of which the most recent of which appears to have occurred at around 642 hours, or just about 100 hours ago. Now again, it's possible there could be a faulty temperature sensor and it's not actually having any issues, and the motor could be running just fine. I talked to the dealer earlier this morning though, of which I have pretty decent faith in them and they have a pretty fair reputation online and they are a GW dealer, but they're now saying the owner isn't exactly being very cooperative and seems like he might be hiding something about the motor. Or at least that's the impression I'm getting from my correspondence with the dealership.

On top of the possible issues with the motor... the boat doesn't come with the canvas, which isn't a huge issue to me because I don't think I'd ever us it much anyway, and didn't on my last boat. But there are several things on the boat that don't work such as the trim tabs, trim tab gauge, fuel, water pressure, stereo and VHF were all showing as "INOP" on the report they sent me. I'm guessing the "INOP" means inoperable and that the fuel means the fuel gauge and water pressure means the water pressure gauge. Again, these could be easy and cheap fixes like replacing the fuses on these items but they could also lead to more expensive issues like having to replace the trim tabs or multiple gauges. There are other things I've noticed in the pictures like the drivers seat cushions need replacing and there aren't any pictures of the cabin area. The cushions aren't a huge concern to me either but I'm mostly worried about the seller seeming to hide things on the boat, like the motor potentially having issues. Some things I love about the boat are that it's a newer style 228 with the hard top, it doesn't have bottom paint, the hull looks to be in very good condition from the pictures, it has a newer 4 stroke motor that if it checks out could provide many many years of usage, it has the bow pulpit, all of the cushions and seems to have been taken care of rather well. The boat also has the bracket for a fishfinder/GPS as well as transducer and believe the dealer said that it comes with a Lowrance FF/GPS unit, although this hasn't been verified. Another issue, as discussed in another thread is that the boat doesn't come with a trailer, so I'd have to purchase one and think I'd buy a brand new one so as not to have any issues buying a used trailer. I think the price is fair for being as advertised, but that would be my greatest concern of paying essentially the full asking price or top dollar for something that cold potentially need considerable work just to get it up and running consistently ok. What are your opinions on the matter? I'm rather torn on this one because I've seen similar boats in worse condition and with less options sell for much more but then I've also seen better boats with more options sell for less. What do you think? Thanks again!

1999 Grady White - Walkaround - 228 SEAFARER | Ingman Marine

www.ingmanmarine.com

 

[seasick]

If I looked at a boat that was listed as having 280 hours but turned out to have 600, I would walk away.
If I saw that the motor had 19 overheat alarms, I would be concerned but whether or not that is kind of normal or not depends on where the boat was operated. If in shallow sandy conditions or in heavy grass or weeds, I might understand why so many alarms. One possibility is that the previous operator didn't do proper maintenance and ran until something failed and caused overheating. That would be a very bad sign The big issue is whether the motor was run while overheating as opposed to being shut down and cleared if the issue was grass or sand ( Look at the lower unit skeg for wear , chips, bends or no paint.
You also say the price is fair as advertised. The setup is not as advertised as I see it.
If you are really serious, you need a conditional marine survey and an independent motor examination. By that I mean you have your mechanic take a look, not a mechanic at the broker's business. You need a good assessment of the integrity of the structures, hull, transom, fittings etc.
The reality is that there will be more issues than you see now.
As you said "I have seen better boats selling for less", maybe you need to look for a better boat. Boat prices are high now, and supplies are limited. it is the also the worst time of the year to buy ( if in a seasonal area that has winters).

 

[luckydude]

Well, as a 228 owner, I think you are looking at the right model, I'm not sure about that boat. If you want it for fishing, it looks like it has no electronics and those are spendy, I spent north of $15K on my electronics, I overdid it (DM if you want details) but lots of people will tell you that it is $10K+ installed.

My advice, that I wish I had gotten on my first boat, is get it surveyed. And I would tell the dealer and the previous owner that you want to get it surveyed. In case you don't know (I didn't) there are people who are professional "check the boat out" people and they are called boat surveyors. They will go through the boat and tell you all (or most) of the problems. I think it's $500-1000, just pay it if you are serious about the boat. Pay very close attention when you tell the dealer and the previous owner about the survey, if they get all weird about it, you have your answer, you need to walk away and you can do so without paying the surveyor.

The other thing is on 228s that old, I believe the stringers and the transom have wood in them and if that wood is rotted it is super spendy to fix that.

Joe Cilia is on here, he recently got a 2003 228, you might try and find him to see what he learned. You can DM me, I'm friends with him, I'll hook you up, I think he checks this site once in while but not often.

I don't want to discourage you, Grady makes a very fine boat. I just want you to be careful and make sure you aren't buying a bigger project than you want. $25K is about $100K less than a new one costs so if it is the right boat, that's a fine price. Do your leg work and make sure it is the right boat. I will say I'm a little nervous about this boat, I'd love to see you in a 228 but the right 228. And don't discount the 226, that's the same boat without the swim platform and people like them better in a following sea.

 

[Halfhitch]

Maybe too late if you have obligated yourself by signing paperwork or making a cash deposit, but if not use the Florida registration number in the pictures and find the owner. He may be willing to make some adjustments due to the INOP items. Ingman marine in Port Charlotte is where I purchased a new Yamaha F225 and had them install it. I know them. Find out if he has an exclusive agreement with Ingman. If not then kick them to the curb and deal directly with the owner. You won't get any Christmas cards from Ingman anyway. Do what's best for you.

 

[SoLucky]

If I really wanted this particular boat, I would use the misrepresented hours and the bigger ticket non-working items (such as trim tabs & vhf) and missing/in-need-of-redo cushions to knock a couple of grand off the price. Then I would arrange to have a certified Suzuki mechanic (independently sourced, not through the GW dealer) give the engine a check including redoing compression and (more importantly) leak down. If that mechanic says engine is sound, I would then insist on a sea trial to be sure the engine/boat performs to your liking. And finally, as Seasick suggests, get a marine survey. It might cost you ~$500 but you will get peace of mind if the boat checks out (e.g., no hidden hull repairs, low moisture levels in stringers and transom) and a full list of everything that doesn't work.

BTW, "water pressure" inoperative probably refers to the fresh water shower pump. If the boat doesn't have the fresh water tank and transom mounted shower wand, then it would be the raw water wash down pump.

I know the market for good used boats is tight, but this one is priced at the high end for a 99 given equipment and mechanical condition. It does look good in photos & must have been stored indoors otherwise the FL sun would have torn it up. But after you source a trailer and fix all of the things that don't work you will be in over $30K for a 22 year old boat and 14 year old engine. For those dollars, you should be able to find a decent 2005 +/- vintage with a trailer.

Good luck!

 

[Blaugrana]

If you can walk, I would. Besides the concerns you mentioned, I noticed a few odd things. (1) The trim tabs seem to be very close to the center, which means that transducer doesn’t probably work when at power. Will the tabs in that location even work? (2) What are those holes on the stern starboard side? I thought it was the swim ladder but that’s on the other side. Did they have a kicker? (3). It seems like they replaced the port side chair with a cheap replacement or at least one that does not match the captains chair.

Seems to have a little of issues and not worth it unless you can really drive down the price. If you agreed to a price before the inspection, then post inspection you should be able to drop the price Or walk at no harm to you.

Feels like the boat was taken for granted.

 

[PointedRose]

You’re getting good feedback. Engine and lack of general maintenance is a red flag at that sticker price.

here’s a helpful article on engine compression (ideally each within 10psi of each other):

Checking Compression On An Outboard Engine

A compression check will tell a lot about the health of an outboard engine. Here we give insight on how and why this should be conducted regularly.

www.boatus.com

 

[HMBJack]

Regardless of the engine, a 1999 Hull is just too old for me. Just sayin. Is it a SeaVee2? I don't think so.

 

[Blaugrana]

Regardless of the engine, a 1999 Hull is just too old for me. Just sayin. Is it a SeaVee2? I don't think so.

Yes, it is...

 

[Ryhlick]

If you’re serious about this get a good survey on the boat and like others have said. I have a 1999 228 with a 2001 ox66 225 that I could not be happier with. I had a comprehensive survey done on the hull and a mechanic look at the motor. All checked out great and I have had the boat for 4 years. I have dug through the entire boat and it is solid as they come. Anyway, my .02 for what it’s worth. Good luck

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Thanks for all of the replies. A bit of an update... I spoke both with Suzuki as well as Ingman Marine and think that I'm going to likely pass on the boat. For those that have asked, I don't have any deposit or money down on the boat at this point. They were basically holding it for me on good faith as I made them an offer last Friday and was the first to do so. They were going to get the boat into their maintenance shop and have their technician look at it this week and then we were going to go from there. Yesterday I got the computer readout on the motor that talked about the engine hours, compression and all of the alarms the motor has ever had. In speaking with a Suzuki customer service rep, he mentioned a few things... first is that most of these engines all have 100 hour maintenance timelines and since there's 723 hours on the motor that the seller should have some sort of receipts or proof of his last maintenance. Which I think is a really good point. On top of that, he mentioned the compression being 15 psi lower on the one cylinder compared to the other one wasn't a huge concern and that a sea trial run as well as acceleration and so forth would be a better way to tell if there are any issues as well as a leak down test. He also recommended a certified Suzuki tech come out and do these things. Finally he said that most things wrong with the engine could and are usually fixed without having to buy an entirely new motor. Things like a powerhead or other items could be purchased and used to replace other items so you won't be spending $15k-20k or more on a new motor. That being said, a powerhead and other repairs can and likely would cost you $4k-5k or even more, depending on the issue. And if you're spending top dollar to begin with and/or have a seller that doesn't want to come down on the price at all, it's going to add even more to the cost of ownership. I've also used third party boat surveyors with my previous two boats and think that they're incredibly valuable when purchasing something and I'm out of state. The boat is in Florida and I'm in the Seattle area, which will again add thousands of dollars to the total cost of ownership as I'd either need to have the boat shipped up here from Florida or go there and get it myself. I've done two cross country road trips for my previous two boats that I purchased in Maryland and spent less than $2k each time with them But again that also adds to the cost of ownership.

In speaking with Chris from Ingman Marine, he mentioned a few things... first is that the seller, of which I don't know his name, seems to be very abrasive and "uncooperative" with just about anything at this point. He mentioned that the seller was very agitated when he called him up either yesterday or today and told him about the list of items that were inoperable or that needed to be fixed as well as the issues with the motor. Apparently the seller also accused them of being the ones responsible for the trim tabs not working and that they were supposedly working when he gave them the boat. Finally, the seller is again being uncooperative in that he doesn't want to fix any of the items and wants to sell the boat as is and he doesn't want to negotiate the price down accordingly. Which to me, is a huge red flag for something being wrong with the motor and/or with the boat in general. I'm not sure if he's the original owner but one other thing I thought about just now is "what happened with the original motor?" If the current seller isn't doing maintenance and upkeep on the current motor, is that likely why the original was replaced after 8 years? Is that maybe why he's selling the boat now because he's not properly maintained the boat and just wants to get rid of it and is hiding some major issues with the boat? He wants the full asking price and supposedly won't take anything less at this point, even with the items listed above needing to be fixed. Of which I agree, I think that for the asking price that it's not worth dealing with a seller who won't budge on the price, especially when there are several issues with the boat that could be somewhat costly. If the boat was as advertised and in great condition, I think I'd be much more inclined to spending closer to the asking price. But at this point, it seems like there could be more than an issue or two with the motor as well as to other parts of the boat. And the fact that the seller isn't willing to be reasonable and negotiate at all makes me even more hesitant to proceed. Chris basically told me that at this point they're likely just going to drop the boat back off at the guys house so they don't have to deal with him anymore, but I told him if anything changes to let me know. It's frustrating because the boat checks off lots of boxes on my check list for buying a boat but at the advertised price, I could end up putting more into the boat than what it's worth. I'll keep everyone informed of what happens but at this point, I'll likely rescind my offer. Thanks again for all of the valuable input.

 

[leeccoll]

Peace of mind is priceless

 

[Mustang65fbk]

If you’re serious about this get a good survey on the boat and like others have said. I have a 1999 228 with a 2001 ox66 225 that I could not be happier with. I had a comprehensive survey done on the hull and a mechanic look at the motor. All checked out great and I have had the boat for 4 years. I have dug through the entire boat and it is solid as they come. Anyway, my .02 for what it’s worth. Good luck

I'm very serious about the boat but was much more serious about purchasing it when I thought it was in the condition advertised on the website. Between that and dealing with a difficult seller that isn't negotiable on the price, I'd have close to $40k invested into the boat by the time I finally got it home. Now, I'm sure that I could still make some money on the boat if/when I were to sell it out here in the Seattle area but it's just going to keep adding to the costs if there are issues with the motor and other aspects of the boat on top of that. If the owner was reasonable and willing to drop down the price because of the issues with the boat then I'd be much more likely to continue on with the purchase of the boat and much more likely to pay to have a third party surveyor or Suzuki tech come out and take a look at it. But I also don't want to spend hundreds if not over a thousand dollars to have someone come out and take a look at something if the seller isn't willing to adjust the price accordingly if/when there is an issue found. Sounds more like a waste of time and money to me.

 

[HMBJack]

I think you have made the right decision. There are other boats out there with Sellers who really want to sell their boat. I'd extend your search to a Gulf Stream as well. For both the Seafarer and Gulf Stream, if you can find one from the Great Lakes (Freshwater) that would be a huge plus in my book. Also, the Seafarer ( I owned a 2006) had an auxilary tank option pre-2007. This to me is a plus in case you plan long offshore trips for Albacore. You can tell if a Seafarer has this option in photos if you see TWO fuel caps. Good luck in your search!

 

[Halfhitch]

Mustang....I think you are being more thoughtful than most about buying a boat that is just what you have been looking for. It's hard to show restraint. The fact that you live in Washington is a biggee. Having a good experience during the purchase is an important part of being proud of your boat. Good luck with whatever you decide. Also...I live about 10 miles from the boat and if you need something done here whatever you decide let me know. I'm retired and from Western Washington so we gotta stick together.

 

[Ky Grady]

Late to the party here, but the others have given you sage advice on this boat. An uncooperative owner is a huge red flag along with the misrepresented hours on the motor and shopping list of other issues. These are visible issues, no telling what you're not seeing. One thing not mentioned as a possible issue is the dual fuel tanks. This boat is 5 years older than mine and given the condition of the motor and other broken items, I doubt any type of freshwater flushing has occurred on the tanks. Fuel tank replacement is a huge hit to your investment, I've been there. Wise move on your part to walk on this one. Don't get discouraged, another will come along for you, just keep looking. Going into spring might be a tough time to find one, everyone is gearing up for the season. The end of the season some should show up with folks wanting to either get out or make a change. You'll have a random one pop up from time to time, so keep an eye out for it.

Good luck on the search.

 

[trapper]

These replies to Mustangs post are exactly why Great Grady is such a valuable site, with so many willing to share their knowledge on a subject we have all had experience with one time or another. It shows the great attitude and willingness to share that this site has is understandably known for. Where else on this planet would one go to get this valued and specific information first hand.

 

[PointedRose]

These replies to Mustangs post are exactly why Great Grady is such a valuable site, with so many willing to share their knowledge on a subject we have all had experience with one time or another. It shows the great attitude and willingness to share that this site has is understandably known for. Where else on this planet would one go to get this valued and specific information first hand.

Couldn’t agree more. In 24 hrs from OP

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I think you have made the right decision. There are other boats out there with Sellers who really want to sell their boat. I'd extend your search to a Gulf Stream as well. For both the Seafarer and Gulf Stream, if you can find one from the Great Lakes (Freshwater) that would be a huge plus in my book. Also, the Seafarer ( I owned a 2006) had an auxilary tank option pre-2007. This to me is a plus in case you plan long offshore trips for Albacore. You can tell if a Seafarer has this option in photos if you see TWO fuel caps. Good luck in your search!

That’s another reason why I was excited about getting the boat because it does have the twin fuel caps and the auxiliary fuel tank in case I ever needed the extra fuel for extended range on trips. I emailed the dealer and explained to them that I’m still interested in the boat and would be willing to work with them if the seller is going to be reasonable and forthright. But sadly, I don’t think that is going to be the case here. I’ll keep everyone informed with what happens. Thanks again everyone for the replies.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Mustang....I think you are being more thoughtful than most about buying a boat that is just what you have been looking for. It's hard to show restraint. The fact that you live in Washington is a biggee. Having a good experience during the purchase is an important part of being proud of your boat. Good luck with whatever you decide. Also...I live about 10 miles from the boat and if you need something done here whatever you decide let me know. I'm retired and from Western Washington so we gotta stick together.

I very much appreciate your offer, thank you. At this point, from what I’ve heard from the dealership, it sounds as though they’re likely going to be giving the boat back to the seller and washing their hands of the situation. If you’re bored and have nothing else to do, it would be interesting to know if the boat is as nice in person as it looks in the pictures. But I also don’t want to waste your time as it sounds like there won’t be any sort of deal at this point. Thanks again for the very generous offer.