Re-Power

[Petersen]

I'm thinking of re-powering my Marlin 280 using Tohatsu 225hp twins. Any thoughts?

 

[Saltyone]

For what I remember they are a rebadged Honda engine. the 200, 225, and 250's are all V6's and weight the same. Depending on your budget, I'd go with the 250s for the same weight.

I also dont think you can get electronic controls for the Tohatsu, its all mechanical shifting.

For what I've also read, the Honda's tend to be heavier than their competitors. Have you looked at Suzuki?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I'm assuming you're looking at the Tohatsu outboards because of the pricing? If so, as Saltyone mentioned above, I'd seriously consider Suzuki and price them out comparatively to see what the difference is. I'm not sure what year your 280 Marlin is but just looking up a 1990, it says the maximum horsepower for that year and model is 500 hp. Of which the 20" version of the Tohatsu 225's are 619 lbs each, or at least that's what their website says the lightest version of the 225 is, and I'm assuming you'll need the 25" version, which is likely going to be a few pounds heavier. Comparatively, the Suzuki 225/250 with mechanical throttle linkage is only 606 lbs and the Suzuki 250 with digital controls is 639 lbs for the 25" version. I'd personally go with the digital control 250 Suzuki, which is a Suzuki DF250AP. Just a quick look on this website says that the Tohatsu 225 is also going to be in the $24k-$26k range, which to me sounds a bit absurd and the Suzuki can be found typically for less than $20k.

How Much is a Tohatsu Outboard? [Price List] |

How much is a Tohatsu outboard motor? Which Tohatsu outboard is the cheapest? Which Tohatsu outboard is the most expensive? Get all the answers!

powersportsguide.com

 

[dogdoc]

Just put Suzuki df250's on my 92 280 Marlin. Was worried about weight but after only 5hrs seems ok. My transom was bad, make sure they look close at that.

 

[Petersen]

I'm assuming you're looking at the Tohatsu outboards because of the pricing? If so, as Saltyone mentioned above, I'd seriously consider Suzuki and price them out comparatively to see what the difference is. I'm not sure what year your 280 Marlin is but just looking up a 1990, it says the maximum horsepower for that year and model is 500 hp. Of which the 20" version of the Tohatsu 225's are 619 lbs each, or at least that's what their website says the lightest version of the 225 is, and I'm assuming you'll need the 25" version, which is likely going to be a few pounds heavier. Comparatively, the Suzuki 225/250 with mechanical throttle linkage is only 606 lbs and the Suzuki 250 with digital controls is 639 lbs for the 25" version. I'd personally go with the digital control 250 Suzuki, which is a Suzuki DF250AP. Just a quick look on this website says that the Tohatsu 225 is also going to be in the $24k-$26k range, which to me sounds a bit absurd and the Suzuki can be found typically for less than $20k.

How Much is a Tohatsu Outboard? [Price List] |

How much is a Tohatsu outboard motor? Which Tohatsu outboard is the cheapest? Which Tohatsu outboard is the most expensive? Get all the answers!

powersportsguide.com

Just put Suzuki df250's on my 92 280 Marlin. Was worried about weight but after only 5hrs seems ok. My transom was bad, make sure they look close at that.

Did you do anything to fix the bad transom?

 

[Petersen]

I'm assuming you're looking at the Tohatsu outboards because of the pricing? If so, as Saltyone mentioned above, I'd seriously consider Suzuki and price them out comparatively to see what the difference is. I'm not sure what year your 280 Marlin is but just looking up a 1990, it says the maximum horsepower for that year and model is 500 hp. Of which the 20" version of the Tohatsu 225's are 619 lbs each, or at least that's what their website says the lightest version of the 225 is, and I'm assuming you'll need the 25" version, which is likely going to be a few pounds heavier. Comparatively, the Suzuki 225/250 with mechanical throttle linkage is only 606 lbs and the Suzuki 250 with digital controls is 639 lbs for the 25" version. I'd personally go with the digital control 250 Suzuki, which is a Suzuki DF250AP. Just a quick look on this website says that the Tohatsu 225 is also going to be in the $24k-$26k range, which to me sounds a bit absurd and the Suzuki can be found typically for less than $20k.

How Much is a Tohatsu Outboard? [Price List] |

How much is a Tohatsu outboard motor? Which Tohatsu outboard is the cheapest? Which Tohatsu outboard is the most expensive? Get all the answers!

powersportsguide.com

I'm not Brand exclusive. One important part of this decision is the availability of trusted service. Included with that is location. I have a great shop who is a Tohatsu dealer and conveniently located. Trailering is minimal.

 

[Doc Stressor]

Tohatsus are great engines. The difference in weight between them and the other brands (with the exception of Yamaha) is negligible. Tohatsus are a screaming deal for repowering. You can find 225s for around $17,000 each including controls. They make a nice optional 4.3" LCD monitor that is not cheap, but you can get most of your engine information through most NEMA 2000 MFDs.

The big ones are still rebadged Hondas and that is a good thing. Once they did away with the O2 sensor in 2018, these engines have been rock solid. And when propped right they will save you a lot of money on fuel. The difference is that they will stay in lean burn mode up to around 4800 rpm. Fuel economy on most other brands (I can't speak about the new Mercs) drops off rapidly when you run much over 4000 rpm. So you get great efficiency at higher boat speeds. I can still get 3 mpg at 4700 rpm running at 34-35 mph with my 250 Honda when it isn't too rough. I would get 2.5 mpg running at the same speed and rpm with my previous F250.

My friend Rick Thompson (triumphrick on The Hull Truth) repowered his 26'8" KeyWest Blue Water with Tohatsu 225s. This boat has a 9.6' beam which should be comparable to your boat. He gets 2 mpg running at 37 mph.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/1275827-fuel-consumption.html

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I'm not Brand exclusive. One important part of this decision is the availability of trusted service. Included with that is location. I have a great shop who is a Tohatsu dealer and conveniently located. Trailering is minimal.

Perhaps putting your location in the post or in your signature/profile would help? If others are nearby they could likely give you some good advice on dealers/outboard repair shops/mechanics.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Tohatsus are great engines. The difference in weight between them and the other brands (with the exception of Yamaha) is negligible. Tohatsus are a screaming deal for repowering. You can find 225s for around $17,000 each including controls. They make a nice optional 4.3" LCD monitor that is not cheap, but you can get most of your engine information through most NEMA 2000 MFDs.

The big ones are still rebadged Hondas and that is a good thing. Once they did away with the O2 sensor in 2018, these engines have been rock solid. And when propped right they will save you a lot of money on fuel. The difference is that they will stay in lean burn mode up to around 4800 rpm. Fuel economy on most other brands (I can't speak about the new Mercs) drops off rapidly when you run much over 4000 rpm. So you get great efficiency at higher boat speeds. I can still get 3 mpg at 4700 rpm running at 34-35 mph with my 250 Honda when it isn't too rough. I would get 2.5 mpg running at the same speed and rpm with my previous F250.

My friend Rick Thompson (triumphrick on The Hull Truth) repowered his 26'8" KeyWest Blue Water with Tohatsu 225s. This boat has a 9.6' beam which should be comparable to your boat. He gets 2 mpg running at 37 mph.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/1275827-fuel-consumption.html

A few things to note here... the performance data sheet on my 2004 GW 228 Seafarer with a Yamaha F225 on it says optimum cruise is at 4,300 rpm while going 31.2 mph and getting 3.03 mpg. So, I wouldn't exactly say that the fuel economy drops off "rapidly" at least for my particular application, though I'm sure it probably does for the larger boats with twin motors on them. Second, I think the F225 on my boat is admittedly "slightly" underpowered in that a 250 hp outboard would likely get better mid range numbers than mine, especially if running light. Cannons deleted their posting of the 228 Seafarer with an F250 on it so I can't compare the numbers of the F225 to the F250, but I'm sure the numbers on the F250 are going to be more efficient at mid range, and probably close to what you're getting. I'm sure Ky Grady will be along shortly and can give his fuel economy numbers on his boats. Even at 5,000 rpm the performance data sheet on my boat says 38.2 mph and getting 2.51 mpg, which again I have to imagine that the F250 or other 250 hp outboards are going to do better than that. Lastly, the Suzuki DF250AP as well as other models, have a lean fuel burn option as well, though I'm sure about other outboards but I have to imagine they probably have something similar as well.

 

[Beyond A Wake]

What does the rebadging really mean? Is it just a different coloring and cowling design or is it something more. If it is mechanically and electronically a Honda then they would also be able to service it.
I had a 2.5Hp MErcury 4 stroke and it was a Tohatsu, also Tohatsu engines are used in small generators.
As someone told me yesterday, " I always buy the latest in technology because in a few years they are old school" . We can debate that phrase and I would recommend to buy something that is proven and and not 1st generation just for reason of reliability.

Price is relative if we only talk about a 10% spread, hard to justify a 10% reduction if result is not optimal. Also calculate all that it entails to repower, transom modifications/repair, all controls and fuel system, electrical supply side and so on.
It is a great project as all new motors are so much more quiet and more fuel efficient.

Good motoring whatever you decide.

H

 

[Doc Stressor]

Most if not all modern outboards with electronic fuel injection have some type of lean burn function. Some adjust the fuel profile on the fly with input from the TPS and other sensors. Yamaha uses a pre-programmed fueling profile that is leaned out in the midrange.

I'm just mentioning my experience with a number of different brands of outboards (except the new Mercurys) on a number of different hulls. The point where the fuel mileage falls off as a function of rpm and speed is influenced by the way the engine(s) are propped, how high they are mounted, the hull type, weight, and sea conditions. But in every case, I can recall, the Hondas and Tohatsus maintained better mpg at higher speeds and rpm than the other brands.

Current Tohatsus from 150 hp up are Hondas rebadged with Tohatsus decals and a dark blue paint job. Many of the parts even still say Honda. Tohatsus makes their own engines from 140 hp on down. They are excellent engines and some have been rebadged as other brands including smaller Mercurys.

 

[dogdoc]

5k to fix before they hung the engines. Apparently older GW are known for this problem.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Price is relative if we only talk about a 10% spread, hard to justify a 10% reduction if result is not optimal. Also calculate all that it entails to repower, transom modifications/repair, all controls and fuel system, electrical supply side and so on.
It is a great project as all new motors are so much more quiet and more fuel efficient.

My thoughts exactly. If you're talking about a price difference of say $10k per motor, or even total, then it would likely be a strong consideration, but if the price difference is say only $1,000 per motor then I'd go with something else. Also, something that hasn't really been mentioned would be the resale value of the boat if the OP ever went to sell it in the future.

To the OP/other members of the thread... I personally, and I'm assuming many others, likely wouldn't consider buying a boat with Tohatsu branded engines on them, especially if the price of the boat is comparable to others that have Yamaha's, Suzuki's, Mercury's, Honda's and so forth. As with just about anything in life, there's a cost vs benefit type of consideration here of if the amount saved is worth it in the long run. I think the best thing that the OP can do would be to get some actual quotes from dealers near him of what the motors will cost and figure out the pros/cons comparatively. Again, if the Tohatsu motors only save you a couple grand then imo it likely wouldn't be worth buying them. If you can save $10k or more and don't ever see yourself selling the boat as well as don't mind having re-branded motors then that's something else to consider. Lastly, I think that if there was one brand of outboard that just blew the competition out of the water, pun intended, with fuel economy and was getting night and day different fuel numbers... then I think that everyone would likely go with that brand. Of which that brand at question for this particular thread would be Honda, and I don't see Honda having a monopoly on outboard motor sales.

 

[MashpeeMan]

Couldn't be happier with the Tohatsu 140 I just put on my (2001) 192. Saved a lot of weight from competitive motors and the dealership (The Boat Guys in Cotuit, MA on the Cape, which also sells Yami's and Honda's, is very high on the Tohatsu. Engine is quiet, smooth, looks sharp. And despite not being a big label in the US I was advised by the dealer that Tohatsu is one of the oldest and most reliable brands in the world (used on Japanese fishing fleets for decades, 2nd largest outboard manufacturer (if that's true, I have no idea), etc.). Dealer said that one of the aspects he likes a lot about Tohatsu is that he can easily access key people in customer support if necessary for something like a warranty issue... as opposed to Yami, Honda, etc. where he said even large dealerships are just a number. He said they're actively pushing the Tohatsu motors in large part because of that customer service in the event it's ever needed.

 

[Petersen]

Perhaps putting your location in the post or in your signature/profile would help? If others are nearby they could likely give you some good advice on dealers/outboard repair shops/mechanics.

I'm not sure what you mean?? " Perhaps putting your location in the post or in your signature/profile would help?" I'm new to posting anything, advice on how to properly navigate and communicate is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I'm not sure what you mean?? " Perhaps putting your location in the post or in your signature/profile would help?" I'm new to posting anything, advice on how to properly navigate and communicate is appreciated. Thank you.

If you look underneath the picture on my "profile" it'll give some information like the date I joined, how many messages I have responded with, my age and imo the most important thing is it'll say where you're located at. That way when you ask questions that are location specific such as where you can do a re-power locally, dealers, repair shops, etc... and then others don't have to ask where you're located every time. If you go up to the top right of the page and click on your profile icon that should be a green colored "P", then scroll down to where it says "location", which you can add and then click "save".