rear scuppers

[fishingFINattic]

Also - I do not believe passivation is performed all on stainless, I actually am 100% sure it is not -
It may be a common step in stainless marine fittings, I am not really sure - but it is quite common to have a nice shiney 304/316L stainless piece with a fantastic mirror finish that has not been passivated.
Tim

 

[Grog]

There are many things that effect the corrosion resistance of stainless steel. If they work the steel too much, parts will show signs of rust. Without getting in a debate, I have a stainless Gemlux fitting for the livewell overflow and it has a signs of rust (just surface, it's not going to fall apart). The Grady scupper fittings which are also stainless have no signs of rust. Both are bedded in 5200.

 

[glemboh]

Has anyone changed the deck drains and scuppers on a 97- 232 over to stainless. Alot of great info and vendor sites in this thread but I`m not sure of the hull thickness before I buy the scuppers. Also since the boat is wrapped and stored at the boat yard I`m unable to pull a deck drain to settle on a size and what would work best utilizing the recess in the floor, tripping hazard etc. Since the scuppers are 75% below the water line with twin four strokes I`m getting alittle nervous considering the age of the plastic. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Fishtales]

Hi Vin,

I would certainly raise this directly to GW cust service and ask that they take it to Kris C. for action. Warranty work is more a reflection on the manufacturer not the dealer and should be honored by any GW dealer. In fact, the manufacturer should consider paying a premium for warranty work to ensure it is desired by their dealerships in my humble opinion.

That being said, as I understand it, GW does have a dealer network based on territory. Each dealer has his own area to sell and there is at worse a gentlemans handshake (at best a firm agreement not to sell current boats to anyone except those who live in their territory - noncurrent and used are a different story) that they sell and service in their area. Comparing car dealers to boat dealers is apples to oranges. Most have one or two boat models a year to move and based on what they have or don't have in inventory could swing prices significantly.

When shopping I looked at serveral makes and inquired about servicing and dockage at the local GW dealership for both GW and other brands as the location was very handy for me. I give them credit for being honest, they stated that if I bought another manufacturers product and they had a customer that bought a boat at the GW dealership, the GW customer would get preference. I would also get dockage with a boat purchase from them and would need to get on the generic list if not.

They indicated they would not refuse service work, but it was clear that if you don't buy there, you get hind boob so to speak if work was prioritized. I'm ok with this policy btw - take care of those that take care of you.

As for warranty work for the same manufacturer product you buy from another dealership, I would think the manufacturer and brand rep would come first and the work would be done as if you bought the boat from them.

If it were my business (and I'm not in this business btw), you'd be getting hind boob for non-warranty work or any marina services I provide for that matter. I wouldn't be stupid enough to jamb you to your face as it appears it was done in this case. You would get the message over time though, abeit with a smile.

A dealer likely would not consider themself independently wealthy and refuse to service you. If they are acting this way, either they are genuine arse cavities or you really ticked them off. As a small business owner, the fact that someone bought elsewhere and expects them to jump at service work (when they are likely swimming in it) probably doesn't excite them either.

In fact it would be a little insulting to me if I were the firm owner. To keep the peace and my dealer status with GW, I'd service you, but it would be on my terms not yours and whenever I could jamb you, I likely would. Sorry, nothing personal, just the way the bus world happens sometimes.

 

[BobP]

FishT

Car dealers used to act the same way as the OP stated, and would say the same thing when going in for service, "well you didn't buy the car here so you have to wait after everyone else for service", warranty service too - sometimes that otherwise rendered the car useless or even dangerous to drive.

So what about people who change their residencies, should they trade in their Gradys for the same model new so it has been bought from the local dealer - just to get attended to in a proper manner?

Every car dealer has his territory too, just like McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, 7-11 , Home Depots, you name it.

To survive, service operations in car dealerships have been made to act like real businesses and have to turn a profit in a competitive environment, as it should be to get the best level of service at the best price to the customer.

From a manufacturer's perspective, it has been found extremely damaging when dealers turn off potential customers, in any way whatsover, why? Surveys show they don't go to another dealer of same manufacturer, they go to another manufacturer.

So dealer behavior can make or break a manufacturer's business. Grady knows this, otherwise why would they give a crap about a dealer's behavior in addressing warranty issues ? Or do they?

Grady & Yamaha have a long way to go, where is the equivalent TSBs and recall notices posted on the internet so new owners can see what's going on? No need for this to be top secret.
I have the complete list for my car model, found it right on the internet, and I didn't pay $200K for the car to get such a level of service.

 

[VinMan]

At the suggestion of some of you, I contacted Grady customer service. I spoke with Jeff Brown who was very helpful and knowledgable. He told me to call the dealer closest to my home and to tell them that I spoke with Jeff Brown and that the work in question will, indeed, be warrantee work.

I did exactly that. I spoke with Tim in service at my local dealer. He was great on the phone and I am bringing the boat in on Weds. I will update this post.

Just to be clear on a few things. Any negative comments by the dealer were made before I decided to purchase elsewhere. It is entirely possible they were just trying to scare me into buying the boat from them.

I saved $28,000 buying the boat out of state. I assume most folks on this blog would have done the same thing. I am a small boat fisherman. I could not spend hundreds of thousands on a 36ft boat. It was either 50k out of state or 78k in state.

Lastly, I never said a cross word to the Grady dealer guys. I was well dressed, polite, and had my 6 year old son with me. I did not encourage or deserve the BS.

It seems that now that I have purchased a Grady, they seem happy to get the warrantee work. The factory pays for the parts and an hourly rate so the dealer doesn't lose. As I said, I'll update. Thank you all. By the way, I love the boat to death and would buy another many years from now. It's built like a battleship and this small issue is quite repairable. The boat sat out back behind some dealer's lot, not in a showroom. I expected a little weathering, etc.

 

[Fishtales]

Hi Bob,

Lets say we are back a few years ago where the market was going well.

You are correct, that car dealers acted this way. When cars moved from a niche to a commodity market, things changed. The stores you reference all sell commodities, they all need to offer the best service, the best price, the best everything. The boat bus isn't the the same as the car bus. TSBs and public notices are even further away. The car companies wouldn't do 1/2 the things they do unless they were regulated. This happened when there was one in every driveway - not the same. I'm not saying you are wrong, just way ahead of the market.

I didn't say the dealer wouldn't service your boat, it would just on their timeline not yours and you wouldn't likely know it.
Deep down, the dealer probably don't want your business. I have more profitable (better) customers ahead of you.

If you happen to move, you can explain that and the dealer would likely understand, but rest assurred if a guy who buys a boat from the dealer and one that doesn't come in at the same time, I think we both agree who gets priority.

I agree, dealer behavior can make or break the bus. GW knows it, the dealer knows it, thats why the dealer wouldn't jamb you overtly but make no mistake the person is likely lower than whale dung on the dealer's customer list. If you think otherwise, go have an arguement with your local marina where you have a slip with a wait list. I bet you don't get a renewal notice next year.

Now in these times, it may be different. But a low margin customer (assuming you know which ones you make $ from and which ones you don't - in this case it is an easy to tell) is a low margin customer.

How come some boat manufacturer dealers share space, set one price and work together at the boat shows? How come the first thing they try to know is where you boat or live? Try to buy a boat off a different dealer than the terriroty you are in - won't happen at the show. You may be able to do it one on one, but once the other guy finds out both the selling dealer and the customer are viewed differently by the territory dealer.

 

[BobP]

FishT, it's a pleasure discussing and debating this with you.

Take any Grady dealer, if he sells 50 boats a year, just how many are coming in for service or warranty beyond the 50, bought elsehwere? I bet very few. So why the attitute about these few extra customers?

Sure if he doesn't want the extra revenue there are many ways to say no w/o saying no, like "call us in two weeks for an appointment".

If you base your sales time per customer, to how much each customer can profit you, you are doomed or limited to a make-a- fast- buck business.

Boat dealer today, gas station operator tomorrow, pizza maker next year.

No long term business could ever survive that way in a competitive market place. It's the tough times that kill off the attitude and clean up the playing field.

Treat all people with respect and dignity, as one wants to be treated themselves. Basic stuff, survives the test of times, any times.

So if a guy walks into the Grady dealer looking for a 2 dollar replacement lamp bulb for his Grady, should he be treated less than the guy looking at the 336 Canyon?
If so, the 2 dollar bulb guy when his time to buy a boat or another one, comes, for what reason would he patronize this dealer or even Grady boats at all?

Grady can readily fix the sales price if they wanted to, by dealer contract, it cost the same to make it at the same factory, just add transportation cost to the price the way they sticker cars.

So why are boats sold a lot cheaper in FLA than NY ? If it cost the exact same to manufacture them in Greenville?

Google Shimano reels for current models, you will see what I mean.

There are two Grady dealers who cover by residence, either cares less about the other, either will talk to me and approach me and quote me, so why would I stop at getting the best deal in price and dealer support to benefit me?

Just like going into a new barber shop the first time, the three barbers don't run over to you (?), they have a method and agreement, so it is the same at the boat shows. I can talk to any dealer I want at the show, they are free to tell me to go to another dealer - but they don't. if they know better.

When I was shopping for motors, I went to a Grady/Yamaha dealer and asked for a quote, they quoted me list price, what they were saying was they will sell me motors if I'm stupid enough to pay list by not shopping around. I found another Yamaha dealer and saved several grand off list.
I promote this dealer and recommend and patronize him for service and parts, will do so forever.

I will do the opposite with the list price dealer who disrespected me with the list price quote.
The list price dealer is not interested in increasing his revenue from a sale to me, that's fine, other dealers are and can profit at the same time bring benefit to me, a perfect match. They know what to do to get my business, or send me away, it's up to them.

I just shop, that's what I do, not just price, but consider after sale service too.
For others who can't be bothered or don't have the time to shop or care less about the selling price, the nearest dealer is there for you.

 

[Capt Khaos]

Cockpit Scuppers

OK,
I've read all the posts, (the last few did seem to digress a bit) but the plastic drains in my '02 Seafarer cockpit scare me. I inspected the hoses and sure enough, dry rot; they gotta be replaced. The transom fittings appear to be chromed bronze and seem fine. So, back to the plastic cockpit drains...The Perko fittings state 2-7/8" o.d. Mine are 2-3/4. The Gemlux site didn't offer dimensions. Does anyone know the part number that works best or that GW uses? I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Dan

 

[VinMan]

Well, I listened to the good advice on this site. I called Grady and they assured me that the local dealer would take care of the warrantee work. I took the boat to my closest dealer on Jan 14th and explained that the rear scuppers dribble constantly into the bilge. While I was there, I asked if the headliner in my cabin could be fixed. The glue let go and it was all hanging down. Lastly, I showed them that the wood box under the steering wheel that covers all the wires and steering hoses was rotting. It apparently got wet and the wood swelled up. This was discovered by the electronic installer.

They took digital pix of all three problems and sent them to Grady to get approval to repair. Approval was obtained and they told me they would call me when the new headliner parts came in. I got the call a few days ago and on Monday, February 16th, I dropped the boat off. They said it would be a few days so I'm waiting for the call.

Grady's are fully warranteed for one year. The hull and stringer system is warranteed for 5 but the stem to stern warrantee on just about everything is one year.

I love the boat. They are truely built like battleships but the wood under the helm shouldn't be swolen up already, the headliner shouldn't have peeled off, and the scupper hoses shouldn't just leak constantly into the bilge. So far, they are honoring the warrantee and I am pleased. I'm not at all upset that it needed the repairs. Lots of new cars and other items need to be repaired and thankfully reputable builders like Grady have a comprehensive warrantee for such events.

BobP, I think you are right. There is nothing wrong with making them stand behind their product. I will give them great scores on the next JD Power survey I fill out, but they have to make sure things are right at least for the first year. I will update this post when I get the boat back. Thanks again for all the advice...

 

[ElyseM]

Well, I listened to the good advice on this site. I called Grady and they assured me that the local dealer would take care of the warrantee work. I took the boat to my closest dealer on Jan 14th and explained that the rear scuppers dribble constantly into the bilge. While I was there, I asked if the headliner in my cabin could be fixed. The glue let go and it was all hanging down. Lastly, I showed them that the wood box under the steering wheel that covers all the wires and steering hoses was rotting. It apparently got wet and the wood swelled up. This was discovered by the electronic installer.

They took digital pix of all three problems and sent them to Grady to get approval to repair. Approval was obtained and they told me they would call me when the new headliner parts came in. I got the call a few days ago and on Monday, February 16th, I dropped the boat off. They said it would be a few days so I'm waiting for the call.

Grady's are fully warranteed for one year. The hull and stringer system is warranteed for 5 but the stem to stern warrantee on just about everything is one year.

I love the boat. They are truely built like battleships but the wood under the helm shouldn't be swolen up already, the headliner shouldn't have peeled off, and the scupper hoses shouldn't just leak constantly into the bilge. So far, they are honoring the warrantee and I am pleased. I'm not at all upset that it needed the repairs. Lots of new cars and other items need to be repaired and thankfully reputable builders like Grady have a comprehensive warrantee for such events.

BobP, I think you are right. There is nothing wrong with making them stand behind their product. I will give them great scores on the next JD Power survey I fill out, but they have to make sure things are right at least for the first year. I will update this post when I get the boat back. Thanks again for all the advice...

here's the deal: you get what you pay for!!!

that's why we purchased another one. personally, EVERYTHING i buy breaks. that's why we buy from manufacturers/dealers who we know will stand behind their products. either that, or make sure it's cheap enough to throw it away and buy another one.

ron

 

[Capt Khaos]

VinMan,
The bulkheads under the helm will probably rot too. They did on my '02 Seafarer and had to be replaced. They are not made of marine plywood and the end grains of the substandard plywood are not sealed. This topic has been discussed in other posts. The additional cost of using quality materials is negligible. If they charged a few hundred bucks more would anyone care? I'm worried about the transom too. I love my boat and all boats have some problems but with a GW we expect more.

 

[BobP]

Vinman, you are doing exactly what you should, glad you are getting it worked out.

Sometimes it takes a swift kick in the proverbial can to get manufacturers motivated.

What I recommend to others on this site with such conditions as I did for you, I'm sure benefits them, but how many members have figured out it benefits Grady's business many times over.

 

[VinMan]

Well, I got the boat back after a week. I am not complaining. Grady fixed a falling headliner and a waterlogged kick box under the helm. With regard to the scuppers (which is why this thread started) they couldn't duplicate the problem. It's partially my fault. To stop water from dribbling into the bilge until I could get it to Grady, i put some 1800 GE Grady color caulk around the top of the drains. They put water on the deck and did not see a leak.

I told them that when the boats sits in the water, water goes in and out the scuppers all night all the way up to the drain and it leaks. Oh well, they were good about everything and I can't blame them. They didn't see a leak.

Maybe this is a question for another thread but I'm wondering if anyone else is puzzled by scuppers in the water. It just seems that putting them above the waterline would have made a great boat flawless. Water coming in and out of that hose all night is annoying and begging for a leak. By the way, my boat has two tanks. If I only keep 20 gallons in the aft tank (the 96 gallon one) and keep the more forward tank full (the 48 gallon one) I think the boat will sit differently. I'll let you know...

 

[fishingFINattic]

If I keep my reserve tank low (120 gallons max) my scuppers are quite a bit higher also -
Tim

 

[toolguy73]

I replaced my scuppers and deck drains 4 years ago when I bought the boat. The rubber flappers were beat, the bodies were plastic, and the designs of everything I saw left a lot to be desired. I researched scuppers and deck drains immensely before deciding what to do.

For the through hulls, I used bronze. Instead of scuppers, I attached bronze swing gate valves (you can google them) to the through hulls. Then, I installed bronze 1 1/2" bathtub drains (yes, bathtub drains). Tied them together with silicone Water hose. The through hulls and the gate vaves have a bonding screw and they were connected to the bond system.

I used the gate valves because tech service at Perko said they were the best at keeping water out. Prior to that conversation, I had never heard of them. The internal flapper swings on a pin at the slightest amount of pressure and stops water flow.

NO WATER COMES INTO THE BOAT, AND THE DECK DRAINS EASILY.

After 3 inspections (spring, midseason layup, winterizing) per year for 4 years, including removing the top and looking inside, reveal no defects, corrosion, or other problems. The bronze gate valves are a little noisy, though. Think about that swinging gate bionking against the seat.

This was not an easy job, but I am very satisfied with the fit and performance after four years. I would recommend this system to anyone with scuppers below the waterline.

 

[timo14]

For the through hulls, I used bronze. Instead of scuppers, I attached bronze swing gate valves (you can google them) to the through hulls. Then, I installed bronze 1 1/2" bathtub drains (yes, bathtub drains). Tied them together with silicone Water hose. The through hulls and the gate vaves have a bonding screw and they were connected to the bond system.

Interesting... never heard of that valve. Did you connect directly to a thru-hull, or was there any hose in between? What size valve did you use? Do you orient the valve perfectly horizontally or tilt it to keep the valve normally closed? Any photo's? I was just about to order some ping-pong ball scuppers, but this idea seems way better.

 

[toolguy73]

For the through hulls, I used bronze. Instead of scuppers, I attached bronze swing gate valves (you can google them) to the through hulls. Then, I installed bronze 1 1/2" bathtub drains (yes, bathtub drains). Tied them together with silicone Water hose. The through hulls and the gate valves have a bonding screw and they were connected to the bond system.

Interesting... never heard of that valve. Did you connect directly to a thru-hull, or was there any hose in between? What size valve did you use? Do you orient the valve perfectly horizontally or tilt it to keep the valve normally closed? Any photo's? I was just about to order some ping-pong ball scuppers, but this idea seems way better.

Each one is attached directly to the through hull. The size is either 1 1/2 or 2". Due to the transom angle, the valves are tilted, and normally a little bit open.They naturally drain at this angle. Here's a picture:

 

[timo14]

Each one is attached directly to the through hull. The size is either 1 1/2 or 2". Due to the transom angle, the valves are tilted, and normally a little bit open.They naturally drain at this angle. Here's a picture:

Now that is a good idea. I'm definately going to do this instead of the PP balls. I wonder how it would work if you use a regular flapper scupper, then a little hose, then the valve tilted so that it's normally closed? Maybe I'll order the valves and experiment a little.

Again... awesome idea!

 

[toolguy73]

The experimenting was already done (by me). This was the best way.

The through hulls are straight through's. They are connected to the bond system. The valves screw directly onto the through hulls. then there's a fitting to connect the hose. The hose is connected to the deck drain.

Simple. Straightforward. Basic mechanical operation. Nothing has to bend to seal. Pressure moves the gate. The gate swings with the slightest amount of pressure. Positive, complete closure due to metal to metal contact of the gate against the internal flange seat.

There is a "clink" though, each time the gate closes. But at least you they are working.