Curious as to thoughts on this topic. I brought my boat in for service, $3k in parts and labor and dealer calls me and said the engine blew on the sea trial after "fixing it"and I need a new powerhead. WTF!! It was thought to be in good shape before hand and had low hours (200HRS). Never once did they say it could be terminal when they had it apart, or I wouldnt have fixed it. Now I'm faced with quite a repair bill $10k+ for a new powerhead. Anyone ever face this or hear of this situation before? Any thoughts or suggestions?
Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" with
- Thread starter Fish Finder
- Start date
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
What were the repairs they did on the engine before it blew?
What were the repairs they did on the engine before it blew?
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
I wanted the fuel injectors cleaned. 2 of them were stuck in place so they had to take the head off to remove them. They put it all back together with new parts and it blew.
I wanted the fuel injectors cleaned. 2 of them were stuck in place so they had to take the head off to remove them. They put it all back together with new parts and it blew.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Fish Finder, that is an awful thing! Obviously, those folks stand behind their work! Way behind it to keep from being hit with flying engine parts possibly! I would not let them touch my boat again for anything if I were you! 8) Ken
Fish Finder, that is an awful thing! Obviously, those folks stand behind their work! Way behind it to keep from being hit with flying engine parts possibly! I would not let them touch my boat again for anything if I were you! 8) Ken
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
What I would do is...have my lawyer give them a call. You should not be responsible in my opinion.
What I would do is...have my lawyer give them a call. You should not be responsible in my opinion.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
What do they mean when they said blew? Rod, bearing, piston?? What make is the engine? I would call a lawyer and the engine manufacture's rep for your area to see if they could help. What year is the engine?
What do they mean when they said blew? Rod, bearing, piston?? What make is the engine? I would call a lawyer and the engine manufacture's rep for your area to see if they could help. What year is the engine?
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Their current best method to get through this is probably to rough the explanation over a bit and hope you accept the glossed over version. If it were me, I would be all over it finding out every intricate detail and how it blew. What was done, installed, changed...you name it and I would want to know every detail; take detailed notes. If there are unknowns, make them important. Then have it evaluated by a "different" certified mechanic that has zero connections to this one.
If you do this in a non-threatening way but stay focused and determined to get details, chances are you'll come out satisfied as much as possible. And they'll save in the long run as well.
Their current best method to get through this is probably to rough the explanation over a bit and hope you accept the glossed over version. If it were me, I would be all over it finding out every intricate detail and how it blew. What was done, installed, changed...you name it and I would want to know every detail; take detailed notes. If there are unknowns, make them important. Then have it evaluated by a "different" certified mechanic that has zero connections to this one.
If you do this in a non-threatening way but stay focused and determined to get details, chances are you'll come out satisfied as much as possible. And they'll save in the long run as well.
Parthery
GreatGrady Captain
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
I had a similar situation years ago....Johnson 150 was rebuilt....at the 17 hour mark it blew the powerhead again...reduced it to scrap.
The dealer stood behind it...gave me credit toward a new engine.
Be polite but firm....
I had a similar situation years ago....Johnson 150 was rebuilt....at the 17 hour mark it blew the powerhead again...reduced it to scrap.
The dealer stood behind it...gave me credit toward a new engine.
Be polite but firm....
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Who was operating the vessel when the motor failed?
If it was the mechanic, you have a much stronger case in my opinion.
In either case, you should ask the shop to repair the motor at no additional cost to you. If they disagree, don't bother arguing, go to court. Document everything, bills, discussions, phone calls, letters, etc.
If you were operating the vessel when it failed, your case is weaker unless you have evidence that the boat was operated in a normal manner and not 'abused'.
You should also contact your insurance company and ask for guidance. The blow up may be covered under comprehensive, leaving you with a deductible which you may be able to recoup from the shop.
Who was operating the vessel when the motor failed?
If it was the mechanic, you have a much stronger case in my opinion.
In either case, you should ask the shop to repair the motor at no additional cost to you. If they disagree, don't bother arguing, go to court. Document everything, bills, discussions, phone calls, letters, etc.
If you were operating the vessel when it failed, your case is weaker unless you have evidence that the boat was operated in a normal manner and not 'abused'.
You should also contact your insurance company and ask for guidance. The blow up may be covered under comprehensive, leaving you with a deductible which you may be able to recoup from the shop.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Its an 04 300 hpdi. I know this engine has a bad rap but it had all the updates done and it had never given me any trouble. I brought it for service because at 5k rpms the motor was bogging down. It would run fine all day long at all other rpms. Long story short I brought it in to have the injectors cleaned. 4 came out with ease the other 2 were "stuck". They had 4 cleaned and put it back together and couldnt get it to run right. After 2 days of them tinkering with it the dealer couldnt get it to idle right. I then brought it to another dealer because I lost confidence in the in this guy. The second dealer took both heads off and replaced 2 injectors. They also replaced all the filters,gaskets,etc. Not a small job. They put it back together and sea trialed it. 10 minutes into the sea trial with the mechanic driving it the powerhead blew.
The second dealer took it upon themself to tear the motor down again to see what happened and then called me to tell me what happened. It appears a piston ring broke and caused the damage. I was shocked because I had planned to pick the boat up that weekend to go fishing. This engine had 200 hrs on it and didnt show any signs of deterioration when they had the heads off. I sent pictures and talked to Yamaha in Atlanta and they said it was a uncharacteristic failure for that engine. Ultimately though they say they stand behind the dealers diagnosis of failure which was according to the dealer that it had ran lean on fuel or oil.
My insurance claim was denied because it was deemed a mechanical failure. They said it ran lean on fuel. No one could come up with a definitive answer as to why it happened and now I'm stuck with a bad motor.
So it gets better, last week I get a call from the second dealer and they say after looking at it more it appears gasoline was mixed in somehow/someway in the oil tank. They are saying that this leaned out the 2-stroke mixture and caused the engine to blow on the sea trial.
I dont know what to think anymore. I've tried be as nice as possible but to no avail. All I got was a whopping 20% off my repair bill ( whoopeeee!!)
Its an 04 300 hpdi. I know this engine has a bad rap but it had all the updates done and it had never given me any trouble. I brought it for service because at 5k rpms the motor was bogging down. It would run fine all day long at all other rpms. Long story short I brought it in to have the injectors cleaned. 4 came out with ease the other 2 were "stuck". They had 4 cleaned and put it back together and couldnt get it to run right. After 2 days of them tinkering with it the dealer couldnt get it to idle right. I then brought it to another dealer because I lost confidence in the in this guy. The second dealer took both heads off and replaced 2 injectors. They also replaced all the filters,gaskets,etc. Not a small job. They put it back together and sea trialed it. 10 minutes into the sea trial with the mechanic driving it the powerhead blew.
The second dealer took it upon themself to tear the motor down again to see what happened and then called me to tell me what happened. It appears a piston ring broke and caused the damage. I was shocked because I had planned to pick the boat up that weekend to go fishing. This engine had 200 hrs on it and didnt show any signs of deterioration when they had the heads off. I sent pictures and talked to Yamaha in Atlanta and they said it was a uncharacteristic failure for that engine. Ultimately though they say they stand behind the dealers diagnosis of failure which was according to the dealer that it had ran lean on fuel or oil.
My insurance claim was denied because it was deemed a mechanical failure. They said it ran lean on fuel. No one could come up with a definitive answer as to why it happened and now I'm stuck with a bad motor.
So it gets better, last week I get a call from the second dealer and they say after looking at it more it appears gasoline was mixed in somehow/someway in the oil tank. They are saying that this leaned out the 2-stroke mixture and caused the engine to blow on the sea trial.
I dont know what to think anymore. I've tried be as nice as possible but to no avail. All I got was a whopping 20% off my repair bill ( whoopeeee!!)
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
are you the original owner? do you do all your own fueling? we've heard of gas in the rod holders so putting some fuel in the oil fill (if exposed) may not be out of the question. i've been told that to properly clean out an oil tank it has to be removed, which costs $ and may not have been done if this was preowned. you may want to verify that your source for oil wasn't cutting it (if you didn't buy sealed containers).
as far as the engine, i would not replace that powerhead. i've been told the 300's are tough, so you might wind up doing this all over again. if you don't want to go for a new repower, there has to be a lot of good used f250's around now that the new f300's are out.
if you trust the shop you are now with, maybe they can cut you a break and at least give some credit on trade in for usable parts.
good luck with whatever you choose. ron
ps: a thought just occurred to me. i would hope that the prior shop did not run penetrating fluids through the oil in an attempt to loosen the injectors. it sounds stupid, but i have heard of worse "thoughts".
are you the original owner? do you do all your own fueling? we've heard of gas in the rod holders so putting some fuel in the oil fill (if exposed) may not be out of the question. i've been told that to properly clean out an oil tank it has to be removed, which costs $ and may not have been done if this was preowned. you may want to verify that your source for oil wasn't cutting it (if you didn't buy sealed containers).
as far as the engine, i would not replace that powerhead. i've been told the 300's are tough, so you might wind up doing this all over again. if you don't want to go for a new repower, there has to be a lot of good used f250's around now that the new f300's are out.
if you trust the shop you are now with, maybe they can cut you a break and at least give some credit on trade in for usable parts.
good luck with whatever you choose. ron
ps: a thought just occurred to me. i would hope that the prior shop did not run penetrating fluids through the oil in an attempt to loosen the injectors. it sounds stupid, but i have heard of worse "thoughts".
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Perhaps you hear the mechanic incorrectly but gas in the oil tank will run the motor richer, not leaner. It will however, if there is a lot of gas, thin the lubricant which will do damage in the long run but probably not the type you experienced assuming a ring did fail. A lean mixture probably wouldn't cause a ring to break just like that. It usually results in piston failure or rod/bearing failure due to detonation. Carbon buildup on the ring groves can lead to ring breakage but that should be evident in the motor.
Since you changed shops in the middle of the process, it will be difficult to point the blame on a specific one but I would go after the second, since they disassembled and 'repaired' the motor last and since they were operating the vessel. In the long run, it may pay to work out a compromise before going to court.
I would go after the first shop to recover the money you paid for a repair that wasn't successfully completed..
Perhaps you hear the mechanic incorrectly but gas in the oil tank will run the motor richer, not leaner. It will however, if there is a lot of gas, thin the lubricant which will do damage in the long run but probably not the type you experienced assuming a ring did fail. A lean mixture probably wouldn't cause a ring to break just like that. It usually results in piston failure or rod/bearing failure due to detonation. Carbon buildup on the ring groves can lead to ring breakage but that should be evident in the motor.
Since you changed shops in the middle of the process, it will be difficult to point the blame on a specific one but I would go after the second, since they disassembled and 'repaired' the motor last and since they were operating the vessel. In the long run, it may pay to work out a compromise before going to court.
I would go after the first shop to recover the money you paid for a repair that wasn't successfully completed..
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
Mechanic blows up engine he just worked on? Yes, take them to court. I'll bet they pay before that!
Mechanic blows up engine he just worked on? Yes, take them to court. I'll bet they pay before that!
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
HPDI engines are crap. The 300's are the pits. But you should get something back for this. I wish you the best.
HPDI engines are crap. The 300's are the pits. But you should get something back for this. I wish you the best.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
have you paid the second dealer anything? if you haven't don't, let him eat his bill as a settlement and move on.
I would go for a used 250 with low hours instead of pouring more money down the rat hole.
You aren't going to come out whole so cut your losses.
just my 2 cents
.
have you paid the second dealer anything? if you haven't don't, let him eat his bill as a settlement and move on.
I would go for a used 250 with low hours instead of pouring more money down the rat hole.
You aren't going to come out whole so cut your losses.
just my 2 cents
.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
I would certainly keep pressing this issue with the shop, have you been dealing with the actual general manager or just service rep? Is it a well known, big dealer for Yamaha or even better a Grady shop?
I had a very similar experience when I first bought my 265, took it in for a "baseline" maintenance as the 2nd owner, this was the big Grady dealer in my area (had done work on 2 other Yamahas I had too). Long story short, they ruined my lower unit trying to get it off to change the water pump. They tried to throw it back to me and say.....sorry, we tried......I leaned hard on the shop to correct thier blatent error, had several internet thread postings about it on local fishing/boating website (with pics, but no shop name), had a big thread on THT about it.....low and behold, they opted to rebuild my lower unit, no cost to me.
What Im getting at......stay firm, stay professional, dont drag thier name through the dirt online, but stay intouch and let them know you are ready to take this to the next level......remember, the easiest answer is always........NO..........and theyre hoping you'll execpt it and move on.
Good Luck, I really hope it works out for you, I hated that experience, makes you really think twice about having to trust ANY service shop, to them its just a job, to us its our pride and joy.
I would certainly keep pressing this issue with the shop, have you been dealing with the actual general manager or just service rep? Is it a well known, big dealer for Yamaha or even better a Grady shop?
I had a very similar experience when I first bought my 265, took it in for a "baseline" maintenance as the 2nd owner, this was the big Grady dealer in my area (had done work on 2 other Yamahas I had too). Long story short, they ruined my lower unit trying to get it off to change the water pump. They tried to throw it back to me and say.....sorry, we tried......I leaned hard on the shop to correct thier blatent error, had several internet thread postings about it on local fishing/boating website (with pics, but no shop name), had a big thread on THT about it.....low and behold, they opted to rebuild my lower unit, no cost to me.
What Im getting at......stay firm, stay professional, dont drag thier name through the dirt online, but stay intouch and let them know you are ready to take this to the next level......remember, the easiest answer is always........NO..........and theyre hoping you'll execpt it and move on.
Good Luck, I really hope it works out for you, I hated that experience, makes you really think twice about having to trust ANY service shop, to them its just a job, to us its our pride and joy.
Parthery
GreatGrady Captain
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
The 200 HPDI is the one of the best outboards out there. Too bad they are being eliminated after this year.
The 250 - and 300 HPDIS - I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly.
jellyfish said:
The 200 HPDI is the one of the best outboards out there. Too bad they are being eliminated after this year.
The 250 - and 300 HPDIS - I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly.
Re: Repair shop blew engine on sea trial after "fixing it" w
I haven't paid for anything yet. I wasn't happy and they didn't really seem to care, with the exception of 15% off the repair. I know the 300 hpdi has a bad wrap but supposedly this failure wasn't characteristic of their normal failures according to Yamaha. This is supposedely a reputable dealer(not a grady dealer, but a yamaha dealer). Not what I expected. I'm most pissed that this is now tuning into a new engine because I really didnt plan on having to repower for a few more years. Either way I'm looking at 10k bill for a rebuild or 20k for a repower.
I haven't paid for anything yet. I wasn't happy and they didn't really seem to care, with the exception of 15% off the repair. I know the 300 hpdi has a bad wrap but supposedly this failure wasn't characteristic of their normal failures according to Yamaha. This is supposedely a reputable dealer(not a grady dealer, but a yamaha dealer). Not what I expected. I'm most pissed that this is now tuning into a new engine because I really didnt plan on having to repower for a few more years. Either way I'm looking at 10k bill for a rebuild or 20k for a repower.