Replacing Bilge - what model is this? would you replace with an electronic switch?

[DoctorOctopus]

My bilge pump failed out on the water and nearly sunk the boat. thinking of replacing with two pumps on a switch as a backup. All is well (sump pump in the marina in the nick of time). I am not sure if there is another leak on the boat that caused this or just a week of rain including IDA when it burned out (I assume from the float switch getting stuck up with a wire that needs to be pulled up from the drain area)
1) What brand of bilge pump is this? from the picture in my bilge filth - it looks like a Rule 800gph and a rule-a-matic 14 amp float switch. Online I have seen a 20F and 20A and the claim that the 1000 is the new 800. I would just like to pop this in and replace the old one. I am sure it's ancient. I think 3/4?? these models evidently have different size connectors.

Bilge Pump: Does anyone know which is the appropriate modern model?

Robot or human?

www.walmart.com

Robot or human?

www.walmart.com

2) Float Switch: Also do I need a rule with an inline fuse? I have a marine grade one already, and hear that the rule has a non-marine grade fuse holder. not sure where that even goes. I've never replaced the pump.

Model 257 Bilge Switch - Water Witch Inc.

7 Year Limited Warranty 2.125"W x 3.125"H x 1.625"D Delay on 8 seconds Delay off 15 seconds Auxiliary system delay 2 minutes

waterwitchinc.com

aqualarm seems pretty cool too. also pricey Aqualarm Smart Bilge Pump Switch with Alarm (550065)

Rule Rule-A-Matic-A-Matic Bilge Pump Float Switch

Rule Rule-A-Matic® Float Switch Features: Switch turns bilge pump on when water level reaches 2" – turns pump off when water level reaches 3/4" Detachable mounting base makes switch easier to install and remove for cleaning Environm

www.defender.com

Rule-a-matic

would you use another switch with this? thinking of an all-electric switch like a whale or water-witch. I have seen people use a sure-ball, other options here. Not sure if there is a better option. I have had issues with things getting under the Rule-a-matic.

 

[Ky Grady]

Casual observation here, but you really need to clean that bilge up!! Anything new you put in that mess will malfunction in short order.

I run a Rule 2000 and a SureBail switch. The SureBail was original to my boat. I just put a new one in when I replaced my bilge pump.

 

[Hookup1]

Yes you should clean that bilge but I would focus on where is the water coming from that you almost lost the boat. Grady White hulls are extremely "dry" and minimal water gets into the bilge. Two pumps are ok but I would set one up as bilge and the other as a high water with alarm. All bilge pumps should have visible indicators on the dash next to the manual switches.

 

[DoctorOctopus]

yeah this part of the bilge is terrible. also fairly inaccessible without removing the live well.
I have an indicator for the bilge presently. and seems to be working. amber light on the original panel. strangely when it is activated the live well light also comes on. something odd there.

as for troubleshooting the leak, first thing is to repair the bilge. Then I will fill it on land and look for leaks. checking hoses and scuppers. I believe the problem is that the boat was probably full to the bottom deck when I took it out, I tilted the boat and probably sunk rear lower bringing in water from the upper throughulls or scuppers. boat might have been water logged for days.

 

[Hookup1]

yeah this part of the bilge is terrible. also fairly inaccessible without removing the live well.
I have an indicator for the bilge presently. and seems to be working. amber light on the original panel. strangely when it is activated the live well light also comes on. something odd there.

Couple of things. I realize its a tight spot but you should straighten out the bilge/live well wiring first. My guess is the there is something wrong with the wiring near the pump(s). Do your best to sort it out and get back to factory (manuals online at Grady White). The guy before you probably hacked something as a shortcut. I don't have a preference on automatic self-contained bilge pumps or separate components. Mine are all regular floats and separate pump.

as for troubleshooting the leak, first thing is to repair the bilge. Then I will fill it on land and look for leaks. checking hoses and scuppers. I believe the problem is that the boat was probably full to the bottom deck when I took it out, I tilted the boat and probably sunk rear lower bringing in water from the upper throughulls or scuppers. boat might have been water logged for days.

As far as finding the leak I would first start out of the water. Hose the deck , deck ports, scuppers, anchor locker and just about anywhere else you think it can come it. GW's are pretty dry and I wouldn't expect a problem. Next test it in the water. Just be prepared to pull the boat out! There are not many thru hulls so check them all along with the hoses. This is my bet. You really have to find the leak before it bilge water gets too high. Otherwise you will never be able to see what its running in from.

Good luck!

 

[seasick]

You have a bigger problem than a bad bilge pump if you almost sunk the boat.
If you have a big enough leak, no normal bilge pump will keep the bilge from filling so first step is to address the water issue.
It is possible that you have small leakage and it just built up over time and if the pump wasn't working got critical. In that case you probably should have noticed something different like hull sitting lower or sluggish performance,
Regardless you should get in the habit of occasionally checking your bilge and pump, both automatic and manual. Although not as good as looking in the bilge and testing the auto feature, it is a simple task to use the manual pump option at the helm and see if water and how much of it pump out the through hull. At least you will have an idea if there is a lot of water in the bilge.
With regard to electronic bilge switches, I am not a big fan of them for boats that are not on chargers at the dock. They use a certain amount of battery capacity, small but still more than a mechanical float). That current draw can drain the battery down a bit and over longer periods of non use of the boat, potentially run the battery way down. I have also experienced a switch or two that got stuck on due to gunk that fouled up the sensors and caused the pump to cycle continuously,

 

[DoctorOctopus]

>It is possible that you have small leakage and it just built up over time and if the pump wasn't working got critical. In that case you probably should have noticed something different like hull sitting lower or sluggish performance,

This was the case. We had a lot of rain, and it probably failed during hurricane IDA. switch was stuck open and burned the pump out. I don't believe it was a coincidence that the bilge filled with water upon my arrival, and I think it was already pretty full. probably worse when it tilted back. someone in the marina had noticed it was low as I was pulling told me afterwards . It felt sluggish but I was already in a panic and turned around after a few and seeing the slosh when I hit a big wave.

>Although not as good as looking in the bilge and testing the auto feature, it is a simple task to use the manual pump option at the helm and see if water and how much of it pump out the through hull. At least you will have an idea if there is a lot of water in the bilge.
With regard to electronic bilge switches, I am not a big fan of them for boats that are not on chargers at the dock. They use a certain amount of battery

I presently have no manual mode on the switch and the new one will have a new switch to do exactly this and bypass the float.
I'm going for a USS Ultra Safety Systems Junior float switch. Expensive but I think worth it. It's mechanical but better than the Rule floating lever for blockage issues. looks like there are issues with solid state so not going with that as per your advice....

 

[DoctorOctopus]

boat is dry as a bone back in the water. Used the USS ultra safety system for the rear bilge. The front bilge is wired wrong and has no auto (only manual) mode. I rewired to be automatic when switched on until I can run a new wire for auto mode

 

[DoctorOctopus]

Casual observation here, but you really need to clean that bilge up!! Anything new you put in that mess will malfunction in short order.

I run a Rule 2000 and a SureBail switch. The SureBail was original to my boat. I just put a new one in when I replaced my bilge pump.

View attachment 22985

What are the rods coming out of the bottom of the boat in this photo? after I removed the livewell to get at the aft bilge pump I found a rod laying in my bilge that looks similar....


PS your bilge is spotless.

 

[Ky Grady]

They go to your ball valve handles on the seacocks.

 

[Halfhitch]

PS your bilge is spotless.

Don't encourage him.

 

[glacierbaze]

What are the rods coming out of the bottom of the boat in this photo? after I removed the livewell to get at the aft bilge pump I found a rod laying in my bilge that looks similar....
PS your bilge is spotless.

Doc, look how KY's rods attach to the ball valves in his pic. You may have gotten one with a steel yoke on the end, and it rusted away, like mine did. There should have been a mounting bracket, and a ball on the end of the rod, which should have kept it from falling into the bilge. THmarine may sell you a replacement yoke, or order a ss one from Grainger. Ask TH the thread size, something like 5/16 X 20 IIRC.

Seacock Remote Operation Arm - 24" - T-H Marine Supplies

Makes operating hard to reach seacock valves much easier. Operate seacock from the deck Stainless Steel construction Mounting brackets available to keep arm in easy to reach position Custom lengths available for boat manufacturers Brackets not included, sold separately. OEM/Bulk Product Name...

thmarinesupplies.com