Could you repower a 2000 0r 2001 with twin suzuki 175 4 strokes? Would that be enough power? They swing a big prop. And the weight would keep the scuppers above the waterline. Thanks.
repower 265 Express with suzuki 175?
- Thread starter tuna boater
- Start date
Maybe, but I would pose the question to GW, might be a bit light on power and heavy on weight. GW made a hull modification when they went to 4 strokes - I think this was in 2003.
Resale may be an issue also - don't see any 265's with less than twin 200's
What will you save with the Zukes, as opposed to bigger engines?
Resale may be an issue also - don't see any 265's with less than twin 200's
What will you save with the Zukes, as opposed to bigger engines?
Not so much the money as would like to go 4 strokes without the weight of 225 s putting the scuppers below the water line. Alot of people run twin 150's on parker 25's. So thought it might be similer.
wahoo33417
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Tuna: These two yamaha links may help. While I didn't find a test of 175s, there are tests of a 200 two-stroke and 225 four-stroke. Both Yamaha, of course.
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... -GRW-Z.pdf
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... -GRW-B.pdf
Just looking at the tests, doesn't look like the weight of F225s is too much for the hull. I.e., doesn't seem to be dragging too much in the lower rpms. Looks like it is nearly on plane at 3,000 rpm. Since, IMHO, the F225 isn't particularly strong in the midrange, this doesn't look bad.
All that said, I agree with the recommendation to call Grady. They'll give you a reliable answer.
Rob
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... -GRW-Z.pdf
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/prod ... -GRW-B.pdf
Just looking at the tests, doesn't look like the weight of F225s is too much for the hull. I.e., doesn't seem to be dragging too much in the lower rpms. Looks like it is nearly on plane at 3,000 rpm. Since, IMHO, the F225 isn't particularly strong in the midrange, this doesn't look bad.
All that said, I agree with the recommendation to call Grady. They'll give you a reliable answer.
Rob
The hull changed is 2002 to accept the four strokes!
Specifically the rear scruppers were raised approx three inches
Specifically the rear scruppers were raised approx three inches
There's a guy here running transom mounted DF175s on a Sailfish...SeaV2 hull I believe. I can't remember his name, but I know he's in Virginia. Find out who he is and talk to him about performance. That should give you a good idea of what to expect since a 252 has almost exactly the same weight and dimensions as a 265.
I would not evene go near an Express with 175's. My F225's cruise at 28mph, DF175's would put you way down there, probably 24mph if your lucky. My F225's top out arounbd 43mph....DF175's would not even touch 40, maybe 38-39 if your lucky and propped out right, in today's market that is slow and not appealing. The 265 Express is a big boat for it's size, and in a rough sea you need the power to stay on plane at slower speeds, 175's will put you off plane too soon and kick your butt. Also, the hull likes to run, and run fast, in a close 2-4ft chop, I put the throttles down, trim her out right and run 33-35mph and fly by everyone else out there....underpowering this hull will make it ride like crap and lose its sweet spot both on ride and speed. For the very little in fuel savings, it would be a HORRIBLE decision to underpower this hull. I think 200HPDI's or F225's are the perfect match. Honestly, if you put DF175's on the boat you will have an extremely hard time down the road reselling the boat...you will be the only boat ever with them and everyone looking will wonder why no others...whats wrong with this one, you will have to find someone very inexperienced and unknowledgeable to buy it. I like the Suzuki engines, but a 175 is underpowered. Your talking about maybe 60lbs per engine between most 225's and the suzuki 175, a total of 120lb, l;ess then one adult at the transom. Stand back there in the well and see if your scuppers are under water. You may not need an adjustment, mine was a 2002 with 4strokes from the factory and my scuppers ride high enough, if you are closer to a 2000 hull, you might. Somewhere between that time they adjusted the height.
My advice would be stick with 200hp and above, but honestly a 225 will be a good match, when going from a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke, never go down in power, stay the same or go up, 4 strokes don't have the pep of a 2 stroke if underpowered. My F225's jump on plane and have plenty of power.
As for the Parker, it is a totally different beast, different hull, it planes out differently and requires less hp to run at certain speeds, it has less deadrise and therefore gets more lift at the transom, and will plane out with less power. Compared to the 265, a Parker will rattle your teeth out unless you get the deep v version, but those with deep V's usually have 200's or more hp. A deep v parker was one of our choices when we bought, and after a sea trial there was no comparison.
My advice would be stick with 200hp and above, but honestly a 225 will be a good match, when going from a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke, never go down in power, stay the same or go up, 4 strokes don't have the pep of a 2 stroke if underpowered. My F225's jump on plane and have plenty of power.
As for the Parker, it is a totally different beast, different hull, it planes out differently and requires less hp to run at certain speeds, it has less deadrise and therefore gets more lift at the transom, and will plane out with less power. Compared to the 265, a Parker will rattle your teeth out unless you get the deep v version, but those with deep V's usually have 200's or more hp. A deep v parker was one of our choices when we bought, and after a sea trial there was no comparison.
I've got to agree with gradyfish on this one; stick to more power for that rig. Plus, anyone with a boat as good-looking as his must do something right (yes, I want that boat!). :lol:
I know GW must have done this when they switched to four strokes but how can you raise the scuppers three inches and still gravity drain the cockpit with a reasonable flow rate?
Thanks
Ken
Thanks
Ken
Cove
I was wondering about that as well. I think that if the boat was moving forward the weight of the water on the deck would force it through. But
for just washing the deck would it be able to drain?
Also I've seen many pre 2002 265s repowered with t-F225s but it does
drop the scuppers underwater with a full load. I inspect those scupper hoses and clamps every season and you should too! If they break or crack with them underwater you'll be testing GW's unsinability claims!
I'd love to put F250s on my 265! Does anyone know how much they weigh? Do they weigh more than the f225s?
I was wondering about that as well. I think that if the boat was moving forward the weight of the water on the deck would force it through. But
for just washing the deck would it be able to drain?
Also I've seen many pre 2002 265s repowered with t-F225s but it does
drop the scuppers underwater with a full load. I inspect those scupper hoses and clamps every season and you should too! If they break or crack with them underwater you'll be testing GW's unsinability claims!
I'd love to put F250s on my 265! Does anyone know how much they weigh? Do they weigh more than the f225s?
Scuppers are typically designed according to the waterline and boot stripe of a boat, they are supposed to be situated at this height to be hidden, this is common practice by a design firm/naval architect and most builders follow this when possible. Due to the new weight of the four strokes, the scuppers were moved up to meet the new paint line, I'm not positive that it was 3", others have mentioned that dimension, it is the only one I've ever heard, I'd confirm this with Grady to be sure, but 3" is probably about max it could be moved up. The original drain height was low, well below the cockpit height, now it is still below it, and the scupper is just as high off the water, the change was the freeboard itself. The cockpit on a 2002 with the new scupper height is not an issue, my boat was one of the last 2002's with the new scupper location before the hull change, my transom scuppers just touch the water when I have full fuel, 500lbs of ice, and 4 guys onboard, which only occurs when I'm running offshore for a canyon trip, with jsut full fuel it does not touch them.
The only change after the scupper height was the freeboard of the boat. The scuppers are still below the cockpit and still above the water and drain without a problem. I've backed down on white marlin at good speeds and had water slamming the back well wall and have only a trickly of water seep from the 2 corners where the piano hinge ends(about 1" section on each side) and this water drained directly into the cockpit drains and out the boat, the cockpit was dry.
As for F250's, there is very little difference in weight, but they require a higher grade gas to power them or they perform significantly under what is advertised and will not produce 250hp. They also burn a bit more fuel then an F225 and on this hull would not gain enough speed, maybe 2mph while burning more fuel. I'd love more speed, I'd love to make that boat do 60mph if possible, but not with more fuel burn, I love my range and wish I could extend it even more. Going to F250's would keep me from reaching the canyon's safely from where I am with the more fuel they would burn.
The only change after the scupper height was the freeboard of the boat. The scuppers are still below the cockpit and still above the water and drain without a problem. I've backed down on white marlin at good speeds and had water slamming the back well wall and have only a trickly of water seep from the 2 corners where the piano hinge ends(about 1" section on each side) and this water drained directly into the cockpit drains and out the boat, the cockpit was dry.
As for F250's, there is very little difference in weight, but they require a higher grade gas to power them or they perform significantly under what is advertised and will not produce 250hp. They also burn a bit more fuel then an F225 and on this hull would not gain enough speed, maybe 2mph while burning more fuel. I'd love more speed, I'd love to make that boat do 60mph if possible, but not with more fuel burn, I love my range and wish I could extend it even more. Going to F250's would keep me from reaching the canyon's safely from where I am with the more fuel they would burn.
Just to be clear above - I am not sure how high they can be moved and have not researched it a ton -
I did take some quick measurements of mine and a 2003 from the same referance point and they are DEFINITY higher - and with nothing else appearing different at first glance this is the approach I would explore -
If I were to repower I would contact Grady for guidance- and take a critical look at the differances between the 2003 and 2000 - but it is my belief that the elevation of the deck relative to the new scupper location will be fine -
I dont think your flow rate will be as nearly as much of a problem as being positive that you are always draining down hill, specifically when the boat is at rest and heavy in the front and light in the back. (Heavily loaded with gear in the cabin, water heater, fridge full, no fuel)
Tim
I did take some quick measurements of mine and a 2003 from the same referance point and they are DEFINITY higher - and with nothing else appearing different at first glance this is the approach I would explore -
If I were to repower I would contact Grady for guidance- and take a critical look at the differances between the 2003 and 2000 - but it is my belief that the elevation of the deck relative to the new scupper location will be fine -
I dont think your flow rate will be as nearly as much of a problem as being positive that you are always draining down hill, specifically when the boat is at rest and heavy in the front and light in the back. (Heavily loaded with gear in the cabin, water heater, fridge full, no fuel)
Tim
Tuna Boater,
I have had some experience repowering a 91 Sailfish w/bracket and Twin Suzuki DF175's. I originally had 200 Johnson's two strokes and I can tell you there is no lose of power. Cruise is 30kts at approx 3900 rpms. Wot is 6200 rpms and she tops out at around 48kts. They also turn 21" props. Weight is slightly higher than the Johnson however the power is amazing. They get the boat on plane faster than the Johnsons. When it comes to noise, there is no comparison, you can actually have a conversation in the pit now. No Smoke, No Oil to add. My returning customers that fished with me before could"nt believe the difference. Some even thought I had a new boat. I'm hard on engines, they troll all day for Striper, they idle around the CBBT for flounder, the boat is always loaded with ice, gear, tackle and customers, they live the life of a fisherman. They run hard and I use them. I had alot of choices and I'm very satisfied with the DF175's. I currently have 400hrs on them and I repowered Jan2008. I strongly believe in service. Everything gets cleaned at the end of the day and motors are in before the scheduled maint. is due. I will not make any exceptions. You must take care of your boat, no matter make or model.
That was the pro's: Here is the cons. Every 100 hrs she gets a service. The price is $175.00 per motor by my suzuki tech. The johnson's got their service also but I didnt have to add 16qts of oil every 100hrs. Im very lucky that I have a suzuki service center at my marina. Other than that I have'nt had any other problems. They are reliable, they are quite, they run faster than what I had. I also received a 6 year warranty with them. And the fuel savings is 40% better than the 200 Johnsons. The price of the repower was 33K. I also replaced everything I could. New fuel tanks, lines, plumbing, hoses, new steering, new electrical everything,new livewell pump, and bilge pumps, added an additional......etc.
In short, do your home work, the guys on this site were very helpful when I was researching my repower. If I can give you more info or you have any questions feel free to contact me anytime.
Sinclair
I will attempt to upload some pics.
I have had some experience repowering a 91 Sailfish w/bracket and Twin Suzuki DF175's. I originally had 200 Johnson's two strokes and I can tell you there is no lose of power. Cruise is 30kts at approx 3900 rpms. Wot is 6200 rpms and she tops out at around 48kts. They also turn 21" props. Weight is slightly higher than the Johnson however the power is amazing. They get the boat on plane faster than the Johnsons. When it comes to noise, there is no comparison, you can actually have a conversation in the pit now. No Smoke, No Oil to add. My returning customers that fished with me before could"nt believe the difference. Some even thought I had a new boat. I'm hard on engines, they troll all day for Striper, they idle around the CBBT for flounder, the boat is always loaded with ice, gear, tackle and customers, they live the life of a fisherman. They run hard and I use them. I had alot of choices and I'm very satisfied with the DF175's. I currently have 400hrs on them and I repowered Jan2008. I strongly believe in service. Everything gets cleaned at the end of the day and motors are in before the scheduled maint. is due. I will not make any exceptions. You must take care of your boat, no matter make or model.
That was the pro's: Here is the cons. Every 100 hrs she gets a service. The price is $175.00 per motor by my suzuki tech. The johnson's got their service also but I didnt have to add 16qts of oil every 100hrs. Im very lucky that I have a suzuki service center at my marina. Other than that I have'nt had any other problems. They are reliable, they are quite, they run faster than what I had. I also received a 6 year warranty with them. And the fuel savings is 40% better than the 200 Johnsons. The price of the repower was 33K. I also replaced everything I could. New fuel tanks, lines, plumbing, hoses, new steering, new electrical everything,new livewell pump, and bilge pumps, added an additional......etc.
In short, do your home work, the guys on this site were very helpful when I was researching my repower. If I can give you more info or you have any questions feel free to contact me anytime.
Sinclair
I will attempt to upload some pics.
I'm not familar with your model Sailfish . Can you give us the beam, length and loaded weight info please. I'm sure your post has got a few of us thinking.......
Jekyl,
The Sailfish is a 91 252G. The beam is 9.6 and the length is 25'. The vessel also has a bracket. I'm not sure of the exact weight. I can tell you I add approx. 150-200lbs of ice per trip, gear and 4 passengers.
No power issues at all.
Hope this helps you.
Sinclair
The Sailfish is a 91 252G. The beam is 9.6 and the length is 25'. The vessel also has a bracket. I'm not sure of the exact weight. I can tell you I add approx. 150-200lbs of ice per trip, gear and 4 passengers.
No power issues at all.
Hope this helps you.
Sinclair