Repower Options: Seafarer 228G

brightnight

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My 2006 optimax 200XL engine with only 620 hours has a bad power head and it's time to repower my 1996 Seafarer 228G. Looking through the Grady pamflet it looks like a new engine has to meeting the following specs:
Max HP: 280HP
O/B Shaft Length: 25"

I was happy with the 200HP engine on there but wondering if it's worth it and what benefits I'd get if I increased the HP to 225 or 250? We burn a lot of fuel cruising 50 miles offshore to fish for tuna so efficiencey is important. I wasn't sure if a larger engine will allow me to burn less fuel at cruise and be more reliable because I'm hardly pushing it compared to a lower HP motor or if it doesn't matter. Would apprecaite any advice from folks that have gone through this before, with this boat or another. Starting research on a replacement engine. Located in MA so all gas has ethonal and would like to stick with 87 octane if possible.
 
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kirk a

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I don't think that I've ever heard someone complain they had too much power. Yes, usually there is an efficiency gain with more power. But going from a 2 to 4 stroke, I'd definitely want larger. A new 250 yamaha 4.2 would be a big difference.
 
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luckydude

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I can't speak for OP but I would not want less than 250hp, that's what I have and on tuna runs, 3 dudes, ice, extra gas, the hole shot is more like a hole pebble. It struggles to get on plane. It does it, but you can feel it struggling.

A buddy of mine has a Canyon 271 but is upgrading to an Invincible cat with quads. Invincibles mostly ship with Mercury engines. He's test driven them and has become a huge fan of Mercury. Lighter, much quieter, I'd look hard at a Mercury.
 
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Doc Stressor

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You will like your boat a lot more with a 250. At cruise, they are quite efficient.

If you want the best economy, but with slightly less hole shot performance, look into the Honda/Tohatsu 250 hp. This is what I get with my 226 at high cruise on a calm day:


Honda Gauge.jpg
 
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Don Davis

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I have a Suzuki DF250 on my 1999 228 Seafarer and I think it’s a perfect match, great hole shot and lots of mid range torque, I can’t imagine anything less
 
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Mustang65fbk

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I've heard of a few guys on here calling up Grady White and getting a specific maximum weight limit, which almost seems to be the bigger issue as opposed to the maximum horsepower rating. Back in 1996 sure, the maximum horsepower rating was 280 hp, but there weren't the heavier/higher horsepower 4 stroke motors around back then like there are now. Which makes for a pretty big difference in terms of weight. Per Google, your current motor appears to weigh around 500 lbs, of which 250 hp is going to be your max as I don't believe anyone makes a 275 hp anymore and I think 300 hp would be a bit overkill. Mercury is likely going to be your lightest option, of which their 225 hp FourStroke series outboard only weighs 475 lbs and their 250 hp FourStroke series weighs 527 lbs. So, essentially either 25 lbs less or 25 lbs more than your current outboard, depending on the horsepower level you want to go with. If you like your current setup and how the boat sits and performs with that horsepower/weight, I think either of those options would be fine for you as adding 25 lbs in the stern isn't likely something you'll notice at all. The only potential issue I can think of would be losing 25 lbs in the stern with the lighter motor and potentially having the boat be a bit more bow heavy. Though, I don't imagine that's likely to happen. Also, on my boat I've got a 2004 Yamaha F225 four stroke and it has a dry weight of supposedly 583 lbs per Google. Some consider her to be underpowered, though I don't see that as an issue considering she still tops out at around 45 mph and gets up on a plane just fine. So, I don't think adding a little more weight to your boat, which you and I have the same hull, would be an issue.

Comparatively the Yamaha F225/F250 are going to weigh around 551 lbs, depending on the model but will likely cost quite a bit more than the Mercury and you only get a standard 3 year warranty with Yamaha as opposed to 5 with Mercury/Suzuki. The Honda BF225/250 will be 622 lbs and the Suzuki DF225-DF250AP are going to be around 606-639 lbs. As mentioned above, Yamaha typically only comes with a 3 year warranty whereas the rest come with a standard 5 year warranty. Not saying you can't spend more and get an extended warranty with Yamaha, but that's also going to add to your expenses. If weight is going to be a potential concern, I'd go with Mercury, if not then I'd also consider Suzuki. If it were me, I'd look at the Suzuki DF250AP as it'll likely be one of your cheapest options, comes with a standard 5 year warranty, has fly by wire or digital throttle controls as opposed to mechanical, etc. If/when I need to repower, that will likely be my first option. The other "issue" with Mercury is that any of their 250 hp outboards are going to be a v8 as opposed to a v6, if that makes any difference to you. Their 225 hp FourStroke series is still a v6 though. Long story short, you've got several different options, though I think some of your biggest considerations would be which dealerships are local that are reputable and nearby, what kind of inventory is available and where, pricing and so forth. I think Yamaha would be my last consideration because of their pricing, as a brand new F250 with a 25" shaft and digital controls has an MSRP of over $30k before installation. If you shop around, I'm thinking you'll likely be able to find the Mercury/Suzuki for around $20k, or maybe even less.

 
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Pescadote

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I repowered my 228 with a Mercury 250. It's been awesome. As the above post stated, it's still a little ass heavy and my Mercs lighter than the others. I also have a Yamaha T8 back there.
 
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brightnight

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Appreciate all the replies, lot ot consider and will need to read through all the posts at lease two times. Would apprecaite some advice on the following:

1) Is switching from a Mercury to a different brand more work/cost for whoever is installing it? Do different motor have different hole patterns/mounting plates, require different controls or is everything pretty standardized? Obviously a digital throttle vs a cable run are different.

2) I found a used 2009 motor on craigslist that's basically the same motor I already have for $5k. According to the seller, it was run for a couple thousand hours, then recently rebuilt by A1 outboards in PA, and then run for another 50 hours before he decided on another motor. It would be a big cost savings and get me back on the water quickly for only $5k but unclear to me what "rebuilding" entails and don't want to buy someone elses problems. Every engine is different but the fact that my 2006 started having issues at 620 hours and his is still going at a couple thousand makes me wondering how much life is left even with the rebuild. I plan on calling A1 to see what a rebuilt entails but wanted to get opinions here too. Obviously the new engine would be ideal but it's a lot of money, need to check on lead times, and would like to understand the the option as well.

2) Is there still a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke conversation going on or is a 4-stroke the way to go? Not trying to start a fire with this question :)
 
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luckydude

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4 stroke all the way.

As for the rebuild, I'd ask a lot of questions. In fact, here is what I do when I buy something off craigslist. I ask the seller if I decide in 24 hours it is not for me, can I return it and get my money back. Assuming I haven't put a bunch of hours on it or damaged it in any way.

I'm not looking to return it, I'm looking to see how they handle the question. If they start working the logistics of how that would work, we're good, that's a stand up dude selling something good. If they are "no way, you buy, it's yours", yeah, I'll pass on that.

You might try that.
 
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brightnight

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After doing more research I'm steering away from the rebuilt engine since it has so many hours on it and was done by a group that has a ton of unhappy customer on the THT forums.
 
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DennisG01

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I can't imagine your hull is much different than my Offshore, other than yours being a little smaller. With that said, I have a 250HP 2-Stroke and it is an absolute BEAST out of the hole. The bow NEVER comes up in front on me - it's amazing how quick this hull planes. In other words, while you can't go wrong with a 250HP on yours, you also certainly don't even come close to needing it. With that... it all comes down to your perceived value of the extra $$ amount...... NOT ours! :)

Oh... and I burn about 10GPH at 27/28MPH and 3,800RPM. Not too shabby for an old dinosaur!

Yes, 4-stroke is the only way to go if you're going new. Mercury makes some fantastic engines. You "may" be able to re-use your control box if you stick with Merc... but might need new cables.
 
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brightnight

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Appreciate the advice. My 200XL Merc on my boat now is 517lbs and scuppers have been fine. The newest 225 Merc is 475lbs which is pretty neat. On the other hand the merc 300 is 527lbs so 75 more HP and only 10lbs more than my current engine. Yahaha is about 551lbs and no weight numbers include oil, props, etc, but it's all relative. I was burnign ~8GPH at cruise, 24MPH at just less than 4000 RPM.

Not sure how much +10-34lbs makes a difference when the boat and engine weigh 5000 lbs. I have read many posts about the topic but still unclear if 280HP max HP for my hull is because of engine weight or other reasons. Contacted Grady for max engine weight numbers but the company is fully off until next week.

Still unclear if:
-I can go with a 300hp with the additional weight
-If a higher HP engine would be more efficient and less stressed running at cruise. Need to take a deep dive into motor specs and efficiencey at RPM but guessing it's hard to compare apples to apples.
 

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Be sure to check with your insurance provider before bumping up to 300. They may not cover if above manufacturer specs
 
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luckydude

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-I can go with a 300hp with the additional weight
-If a higher HP engine would be more efficient and less stressed running at cruise. Need to take a deep dive into motor specs and efficiencey at RPM but guessing it's hard to compare apples to apples.
I think you'd be fine at 250, as someone else said, if you go 300 and the boat says 280 then you can run into insurance problems.
I believe my 250hp Yamaha is around 561 pounds so any Merc will be lighter. If you don't care about insurance, I'm all for a 300.
 
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Mustang65fbk

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I think that even if you could go with a 300 hp outboard, that it would be a bit on the overkill side. Here’s a link to another thread below about the performance numbers of a 228 Seafarer with an F300 on it. Top speed is almost 52 mph and the “optimum cruise” numbers aren’t much better than my setup with an F225 on it. For reference, the F300 “optimum cruise” numbers are 29.8 mph at 3,500 rpm and getting 3.4 mpg. Mine is 31.2 mph at 4,300 rpm and getting 3.03 mpg. So essentially less than .5 of a mpg better. So, unless you really want to be in the upper 40’s to low 50’s mph range, I would just get the 250 instead. I’d also email GW again when they’re back to work and see if they have the performance data sheet on a 228 Seafarer with an F250 on it and compare it to the F300. My bet is the F250 will get better mpg’s and gph. I would also pass on the used/rebuilt motor as it’s already had a couple thousand hours on it and who knows what all has been done to the motor at this point? Between that and the negative reviews you’re talking about, that would make me pass on it altogether, especially at $5k. That money would be much better spent on a brand new 4 stroke, imo.

 
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brightnight

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I repowered my 228 with a Mercury 250. It's been awesome. As the above post stated, it's still a little ass heavy and my Mercs lighter than the others. I also have a Yamaha T8 back there.
What year is your hull?
 

brightnight

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I think you'd be fine at 250, as someone else said, if you go 300 and the boat says 280 then you can run into insurance problems.
I believe my 250hp Yamaha is around 561 pounds so any Merc will be lighter. If you don't care about insurance, I'm all for a 300.
Also curious as to what year your hull is
 

brightnight

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Talked to Grady...they said the only real differences with newer hulls started in 2002 with moving the scuppers and livewell drain up 1.25". Ideally I'd like to use a suzuki 250 (~606 lbs) but my current Merc motor weighs 517lbs and the scuppers are 3/4 under water and get barncle growth in them every year. Maybe it's a crazy idea but I could move scuppers/livewell drain up 1.25" as Grady did with newer models. Will test with weights this week so see how it sits in the water but seems like I either need to go with a mercuary for the weight or move the drains up. Also considering new boat since a new engine will cost more than I bought the boat/engine for but TBD.
 
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Mustang65fbk

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Talked to Grady...they said the only real differences with newer hulls started in 2002 with moving the scuppers and livewell drain up 1.25". Ideally I'd like to use a suzuki 250 (~606 lbs) but my current Merc motor weighs 517lbs and the scuppers are 3/4 under water and get barncle growth in them every year. Maybe it's a crazy idea but I could move scuppers/livewell drain up 1.25" as Grady did with newer models. Will test with weights this week so see how it sits in the water but seems like I either need to go with a mercuary for the weight or move the drains up. Also considering new boat since a new engine will cost more than I bought the boat/engine for but TBD.
How much did you buy your current boat for? I’m a firm believer in not spending considerably more on something than what it’s actually worth. I think any brand new 4 stroke is going to be a minimum of $20k+ after taxes, installation and so forth. Of which, if you’ve already got over $20k into the boat, then yes… I think maybe repairing what you’ve got if possible and then selling it for something different, might be the better route to go. Either that, or if you can find a used 4 stroke it might help soften the blow a bit more than a brand new motor, especially if you’re considering selling now or in the near future. I personally much prefer the “newer design” of the 228 Seafarer that started in 1998, and that’s why I bought my 2004, but I shopped around and was patient in buying. Of which I paid $26.5k for my boat and it’s worth around $60k as it sits. Yours is still an SeaV2 hull, which is the considerably more desirable version, but it’s almost an almost 30 year old boat at this point. It might be wiser to fix up what you’ve got, sell the boat and move on to something newer?