With my old engines I was a religious use of Ring Free. I replaced them with brand new 300 hp Yamahas. My question is, do I still use Ring Free with brand new engines or is there an hour threshold to cross before using?
Ring Free or not on new engines?
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I think RF (which I like) is more beneficial to 2-strokes but, no, there's no reason you can't start using it right away. It can only do good things. Of more importance is probably something like Startron if you're not able to use up the fuel quickly and also can't get ethanol-free fuel.
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Once I ever get my new F250, I'll start right off with the same as I've been doing, Ring Free and marine-grade StaBil. Snake oil or not, been running this mix for years in my four-strokes and never a problem and my boat sits months at a time.
Concur with KY Grady. I have been using ring free in my engines for years, 3 different boats, 5 engines, current 2007 F250s have 2008 hours on them and (knock on wood) no problems. I recommend you do it religiously.
If Yamaha says to use ring free, use it. I agree that it can't hurt.
I would use exactly what Yamaha recommends a for engine oil, lu oil and gas treatments..
I would use exactly what Yamaha recommends a for engine oil, lu oil and gas treatments..
SkunkBoat
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IMO. Waste of money. But if you feel necessary there are other brands at half the price. Same with oil and lube.
I agree with SkunkBoat and I use other brands of ringfreeish additives in my engines. ( I only add stabilizers for winter layup)
That said, my motors have some age on them. If I had new expensive motors, it wouldn't be the science that makes my choice of product but rather guilt
That said, my motors have some age on them. If I had new expensive motors, it wouldn't be the science that makes my choice of product but rather guilt
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ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
I use RF and Startron, no issues, still have some carbon issues on the O2 sensors so have to service/clean them annually. FYI....and not to discord Techron....I did switch over to the Marine Techron as I have used Techron in cars for years with great success, but the side affect was I got water in fuel so switch back to Startron and no issue with water. I think some of the stations I get fuel from have water from time to time.
Was it an anomaly? Dunno, but using Startron for years no issue, then all of a sudden have issues, it made sense to go back. I was hoping the techron would help more with the carbon, but I did not get any real difference. O2 sensors seemed to be just as much carbon.
Was it an anomaly? Dunno, but using Startron for years no issue, then all of a sudden have issues, it made sense to go back. I was hoping the techron would help more with the carbon, but I did not get any real difference. O2 sensors seemed to be just as much carbon.
I have seen fouling issues when too much startron was added. I don't add anything to my gas other than ring free.
I also don't routinely clean the O2 sensor. Maybe it could use it but I kind of judge it's probable condition by inspecting the spark plugs. I find it much more important to check and adjust if needed th oil pump linkage
Hmmm. That's interesting. I say that because that's the complete opposite of my experience using it, religiously, over the last 15 years. Heck, I routinely double dose, if not more. For chainsaws, snow blowers, etc, etc, I bet I'm putting in 5 times the amount since I splash in about an ounce+ into a 1g or 2g container. Over these years I have had absolutely ZERO fuel issues and plugs seem to be lasting as long as ever.
Was this an isolated incident that you experienced? Maybe there was another variable involved?
ROBERTH
GreatGrady Captain
I know my O2 sensors are ready to clean when my cold start idle starts to be below the normal 6-700rpms and instead is 4-500rpms and stumbles until I give it some throttle.
Interesting concept though on too much Startron causing too much carbon? When Startron is supposed to help with the carbon cleaning.....hmmm. I wonder how many other folks use Startron on the 2 Strokes and are having the same issues as I do.. We need to do a poll.....
Interesting concept though on too much Startron causing too much carbon? When Startron is supposed to help with the carbon cleaning.....hmmm. I wonder how many other folks use Startron on the 2 Strokes and are having the same issues as I do.. We need to do a poll.....
Doc Stressor
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I did a bunch of research on marine fuel treatments and stabilizers a few years back. With the exception of Startron, all use established technologies that employ fuel additive compounds that are commonly blended into pump gasoline. Stabilizing fuel is not rocket science. The products just contain high levels of anti-oxidants, metal inactivators, and detergents contained in a petroleum distillate carrier liquid. Since automotive gasoline is normally consumed within a month, fuel blenders add just enough of these additives to do the job. However, when fuel is stored for longer periods of time in tanks vented to the atmosphere (such as in a boat) higher levels of these additives are required to slow down the formation of gums and varnish. And that's what Stabil and similar products do.
None of these products significantly prevent phase separation in ethanol-containing fuel in the presence of water. They do not absorb water although a few products contain emulsifying agents that can delay separation as long as the fuel is agitated. There have been several studies posted online that show this effect is minimal. However, they do reduce the effects of ethanol on fuel system components by inhibiting acid formation and a few products contain filmers that coat soft metal surfaces and block corrosion.
Startron is an outlier. It is made by a company called Soltron that uses a proprietary enzyme technology developed by a Japanese inventor back in the '80s. It contains no additives in common with the other products. It is supposed to contain just a plant enzyme or enzyme cocktail in a petroleum distillate carrier liquid. This enzyme is supposed to break down gum and varnish as well as prevent phase separation. Several biochemists, including myself, have questioned this technology online. The problem is that enzymes are proteins and very few are even soluble in petroleum. They would require water to be present for activity. Now I will be the first person to admit that there are many strange things yet to be discovered. But I came across references to the Japanese inventor that talked about the enzyme changing the structure of water, which sounds nuts to me. When I reached out to Soltron and got in contact with one of their engineers, he basically told me what I just posted and said that the enzyme formulation was proprietary.
Soltron
I only use technologies that I understand. So I've used Stabil since the '70s and began using Ringfree as soon as it became available. I've been using both additives every fill-up and I've never had a fuel system problem. Never had to rebuild a carb or even replace a VST filter.
I just recently switched over to the Marine Techron additive since it combines both detergent and fuel stabilizer additives in one product. I understand how Techron works so I am comfortable with the change which will save money.
None of these products significantly prevent phase separation in ethanol-containing fuel in the presence of water. They do not absorb water although a few products contain emulsifying agents that can delay separation as long as the fuel is agitated. There have been several studies posted online that show this effect is minimal. However, they do reduce the effects of ethanol on fuel system components by inhibiting acid formation and a few products contain filmers that coat soft metal surfaces and block corrosion.
Startron is an outlier. It is made by a company called Soltron that uses a proprietary enzyme technology developed by a Japanese inventor back in the '80s. It contains no additives in common with the other products. It is supposed to contain just a plant enzyme or enzyme cocktail in a petroleum distillate carrier liquid. This enzyme is supposed to break down gum and varnish as well as prevent phase separation. Several biochemists, including myself, have questioned this technology online. The problem is that enzymes are proteins and very few are even soluble in petroleum. They would require water to be present for activity. Now I will be the first person to admit that there are many strange things yet to be discovered. But I came across references to the Japanese inventor that talked about the enzyme changing the structure of water, which sounds nuts to me. When I reached out to Soltron and got in contact with one of their engineers, he basically told me what I just posted and said that the enzyme formulation was proprietary.
Soltron
I only use technologies that I understand. So I've used Stabil since the '70s and began using Ringfree as soon as it became available. I've been using both additives every fill-up and I've never had a fuel system problem. Never had to rebuild a carb or even replace a VST filter.
I just recently switched over to the Marine Techron additive since it combines both detergent and fuel stabilizer additives in one product. I understand how Techron works so I am comfortable with the change which will save money.
Doc, Thanks so much for that good information. I too use Techron for the very reasons you mention. I also have a theory about the dry exhaust corrosion issues that the earlier four strokes seemed to exhibit. The corrosion resistance on two stroke exhaust paths was fine since it was normally coated in two stroke oil, but when that went away with the four strokes the alloy may not have been changed (enough) to handle the corrosive atmosphere combined with exhaust heat. I had a pair of 2006 F250s that I put over 1000 hours on and ran a roughly 500:1 mixture of two stroke oil and noted a thin coating of (I'll call it) soot in the exhaust paths when changing water pumps. I had no issues with plug fouling or carbon build up, best I could tell. Any additive with a petroleum base, added in the proper proportions, and assuming it is not completely combusted, may add to the corrosion resistance of the exhaust paths. In addition to detergent properties of Techron, the other benefit may be adding lubricity to the fuel for fuel pump life. My motors don't sit long enough to have stabilization issues, but Marine Stabil does mention helping prevent fuel tank corrosion. Thanks again for your insight!
I've always used Ring Free from when my motors are new, but switched to Marine Techron the last few years. Impossible to say if it's had any benefit, but I supposed it makes me feel better!
Interesting theory but it doesn't explain why some twin setups have the issue on one motor but not the other. Nor does it explain why some model years seem to be more prone to the issue that others and the peak years for problems were several years into the 4 stroke production.
Doc Stressor
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Yeah, it was clearly an alloy problem. The newer engines and those that had the replacement part held up very well.
I never heard of an engine used exclusively in freshwater that developed mid-section corrosion. I have a suspicion that the corrosion may have been exacerbated by the use of ethanol-containing fuel. You never heard much about the problem in countries that never used ethanol. Ethanol raises the exhaust gas temperature that may accelerate corrosion. The older alloy composition may be fine without ethanol. Just speculation of course.
I never heard of an engine used exclusively in freshwater that developed mid-section corrosion. I have a suspicion that the corrosion may have been exacerbated by the use of ethanol-containing fuel. You never heard much about the problem in countries that never used ethanol. Ethanol raises the exhaust gas temperature that may accelerate corrosion. The older alloy composition may be fine without ethanol. Just speculation of course.