Sailfish 282 Repower to Single?

[Bretts02]

Hey All,

I just had a 200 HPDI blow up 2 days ago, trying to figure out how to proceed. I'm looking at doing full rebuild costs (8500/motor) vs new motors and an interesting idea came up from the Mercury Dealer - Replace with a single 400hp Vorado. At first I laughed it off, but when you start looking at the benefits it is tempting:

1. $12-15k lower cost than repower with two Yamaha 200hp
2. Elimination of Hydraulic Steering system - Vorado is built into the lower unit
3. Simplicity of Single Motor - I don't find value in the dual motors: they don't really let you rotate the boat effectively, and the perceived benefit of having 2nd motor offshore isn't that important to me.


Am I crazy to consider this path? Anyone done it on a boat of this size before?

Thanks
Brett

 

[Keitha]

Singles are more efficient
More room on the transom
Lighter
50% less motor maintenance

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Is the price your biggest issue or the weight? This has always been my frustration when considering a bigger boat. It seems like most of the time, any boat over 23-25’ typically has twin motors. If the boat was built for it, especially the weight of the engines, then you still have the frustration of spending more money on the initial purchase price as well as potentially more money with maintenance and so on in the future having twin main motors. If you went with a single, would you then have a kicker motor as backup? The 400hp Mercury you mentioned is around 668lbs dry weight whereas twin 200’s of just about any brand are going to be pushing 1000lbs dry weight. If the boat was built with the added weight in mind, you might be doing it a disservice losing the weight by going with a single main motor and kicker motor. That being said, I don’t believe that’s likely the case. Have you checked with Suzuki outboards? They have a single 200hp outboard that msrp’s for less than $15k each. Twins of those would put you at less money than a single 400 Merc will be at around $35k. I’d make a quick call to GW first and see if they recommend running a single main on the size of boat you have and go from there. I’m assuming they probably recommend running twins, but I could be mistaken.

Others enjoy having a second main motor in terms of redundancy if/when one dies on you and you need to make it back in to the dock. I don’t think a single 200hp outboard would get a boat of your size up on a plane and you’d likely have to troll back in. But at least you’d be able to drive from the helm. It all just depends on your budget, preferences between a single vs twins, what kind of boating you do, how far you run and so on. I think the dollar and weight savings alone would tempt me to go with a single main motor as well as a kicker motor, and then you could get controls for up at the helm to drive your kicker motor there since, like I said before, I doubt you’d be able to plane on a single 200hp outboard with a boat of that size.

 

[blynch]

It's a fascinating question (and one that I have no firsthand knowledge on), but it does make make me a little nervous that you'd lose more performance than you'd think given the weight of the boat and the reduced "bite" of the single prop. Biggest concern might be responsiveness while handling in close quarters. The 2-strokes are probably torquier at lower RPMs anyway, then factor in the removal of the second wheel...

Agreed that it would be most useful to figure out if be are there boats of similar weight out there running singles that you could compare your setup to. If not, there might be a reason.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

A lot of people say they like the twin motors for close quarters when docking or launching/retrieving. The only thing I have to compare it to would be my uncle's old boat which was a mid 90's 26' Bayliner Trophy that was close to 30' in overall length. I personally never felt the need to put one motor in forward with the other in reverse to go in a quick circle or turn quickly. That being said, the docks/ramps around here are somewhat decently maintained and it's even easier if you have a buddy helping you out. If I was in your situation, I'd call up GW first and ask them what their opinion is on the matter and then go from there. I think twin 200 Suzuki's would probably be your cheapest option if you went the twins route, or if you were able to find some used ones instead of buying brand new. Per the Grady White website, they say the max HP for your boat is 500hp. I'm not sure if I'd want to go less than 400 total hp, like twin 150's/175's or even a single 350hp outboard. Although maybe someone else on here can chime in if they've had success with less than 400hp on your size of boat? Either way, I think you're going to be spending over $30k if you go with twins or even a single main motor, unless you went with Suzuki. They make a 350hp single main motor that's around $22k. Might be something to consider as well...

 

[DoctorOctopus]

I sort of hate docking with one engine with wind and tide going the wrong way for me. I'm always jealous of the dual engine setups but not of the maintenance unless the engines are very dependable.

 

[Fishtales]

Might be a good option. As I recall the twin motors are close together on the 282 with the F225s more space with the 200 HPDIs.

 

[Legend]

Not sure of what a 400 would do on a Sailfish. Have you ever tried running your current set up with just one engine. I have experimented with my F250 4.2L and it will not even get it up on a plane, so wondering if an additional 150 hp will get it to plane and supply you with enough top end to satisfy. It will be interesting to hear if any others have tried this concept

 

[Bretts02]

Thanks for the thoughts - bunch of questions i'll try to answer.

I don't mind the price or the weight of twins specifically. Just looking at the total package and wondering if its a better overall solution with the single vorado. I've not found that using the two motors for docking helps in any appreciable way - they're so close together compared to the length of the boat i get very little rotation out of it and by the time i do the current or wind has made docking that way impossible. When i dock it like a single everything is easy.

Its a really good point about the prop slippage and even though HP is equal not being able to get up on plane easily. Hadn't considered that.

I cannot get on plane with a single engine but thats 20 year old 200hp, so not really a good comparison to a single new 400hp

I will call Grady and report back (have a feeling we all know what they're going to say).

 

[Sailfish]

You may have an issue with lack of torque at the low end, and see excessive bow rise and a loooong time to get on plane because of that

 

[reelserious]

After running my 272 with twin 200 HPDIs for 20 seasons, all I have to say is that you will likely be sorry you switched to a single the first time you try to dock it in even the smallest winds. It is impossible to back down properly when you are fighting the torque of a single. With no wind, you will struggle to back down to port if the single is rotating clockwise. Add wind....you are screwed. After the first few years of ownership I learned the power of having twins in close quarters, especially when wind and current come into play. I rarely ever used the wheel in close quarters, Everything was done with the sticks. I sold the boat last year without a an inch of dock rash and my dock was at the mouth of a river leading to open ocean so current was almost always strong and different every time depending on the tides. My suggestion is .... learn how to use the sticks. I never had a problem spinning the boat, but more importantly, using just the port motor (counter rotating) to back down to portside will bring the ass around quickly. Just like the starboard will bring the starboard side ass around. ,You make a lot of great points on why a single is attractive., but keep in mind boats are usually just for our enjoyment. Nothing is worse than the feeling you get when you leave the dock knowing you will have a sh#t show every time you come back to port and try to dock. That's my two cents. Best of luck whatever the decision and good luck with the boat.

 

[ROBERTH]

I would be worried more about running an inlet when it turns sour. That is a lot of hull in the water to lose the torque of 2 wheels down to just one. Also, I think the resale would drop out if ever concerned with that as if I was looking for a 28 and had a single, I would just keep looking.
I love the twins and the take off and torque that they have!

 

[wrxhoon]

I would stick with twins on that boat, if you are happy with the performance with the 200's, new 4 stroke Yamaha 200's will be a little less powerful.
Don't expect to plane with one on any twin set up, if you do it means you are underpropped . With the right prop you can plane that boat with a 200 but don't expect much over 25 mph at WOT.

 

[PointedRose]

Part of the appeal of twins is you likely wouldn’t have to push rpms on the twins nearly as hard as the rpms on a single 400. So a single 400 might get more wear and tear than twins in theory.

 

[ItalianAngler]

Twins all the way, i have f225's. They are close but after a lot of practice I can spin her on a dime if it's not a heavy wind. IMO she's easier to dock and handle than my old 228 was with the single. I think you'd miss having 2 the first time you took her out and tried to bring it back.

 

[seasick]

Hey All,

I just had a 200 HPDI blow up 2 days ago, trying to figure out how to proceed. I'm looking at doing full rebuild costs (8500/motor) vs new motors and an interesting idea came up from the Mercury Dealer - Replace with a single 400hp Vorado. At first I laughed it off, but when you start looking at the benefits it is tempting:

1. $12-15k lower cost than repower with two Yamaha 200hp
2. Elimination of Hydraulic Steering system - Vorado is built into the lower unit
3. Simplicity of Single Motor - I don't find value in the dual motors: they don't really let you rotate the boat effectively, and the perceived benefit of having 2nd motor offshore isn't that important to me.


Am I crazy to consider this path? Anyone done it on a boat of this size before?

Thanks
Brett

I am not sure why you say that twin motors don't let you rotate efficiently. They are much more effective than a single.
If maneuverability is an issue, a bow thruster would help . Initial cost would be high and the savings in maintenance of a single vs twins would take a long time to recover if it did at all. Bow thrusters need maintenance also.

 

[magicalbill]

Twins all the way, i have f225's. They are close but after a lot of practice I can spin her on a dime if it's not a heavy wind. IMO she's easier to dock and handle than my old 228 was with the single. I think you'd miss having 2 the first time you took her out and tried to bring it back.

THIS!

I can spin my Marlin on a dime, as Italian Angler says, if it's not blowing hard.

My guess, since I'm not there, is that Bretts02 is not giving the engine in reverse enough throttle to more easily facilitate the spin maneuver. Rev it up to 2k or so, maybe 2500 and feather the fwd engine accordingly. You cannot just put them in gear and expect the boat to whip around like an inboard sportfisherman. Outboards have smaller wheels and are closer together, but that doesn't mean they won't spin. They most certainly will.

Also, trim your engines UP a bit to direct prop thrust & the associated turbulence UNDER the hull so it doesn't hit the transom, interfering with efficient prop thrust.

If he puts a single on a 282, he will have a personal docking nightmare any time the wind is blowing or a tidal current is running.

 

[Sailfish]

All of these posts have me remebering the "fun" I had docking my Sailfish on windy days in the Spring and Fall when all my canvas was up. Even with twins, it was an adventure. I couldn't imagine trying to do it with a single, especially against the torque of the prop.

As others have said, they will definitely spin, and do anything an inboard will, it just is slower to react.

 

[Bretts02]

I am not sure why you say that twin motors don't let you rotate efficiently. They are much more effective than a single.
If maneuverability is an issue, a bow thruster would help . Initial cost would be high and the savings in maintenance of a single vs twins would take a long time to recover if it did at all. Bow thrusters need maintenance also.

I have driven many boats where two motors lets you rotate effectively. On this boat the motors are very close together and the boat is very heavy and long by comparison, so the rotational torque just isn't very much. So when I've used both motors to rotate it happens so slowly that wind/current overwhelms the situation. Could imagine in a place with less current and wind it would work just fine.

I have had zero difficulty maneuvering the boat / docking when treating it as a single.

 

[Bretts02]

THIS!

I can spin my Marlin on a dime, as Italian Angler says, if it's not blowing hard.

My guess, since I'm not there, is that Bretts02 is not giving the engine in reverse enough throttle to more easily facilitate the spin maneuver. Rev it up to 2k or so, maybe 2500 and feather the fwd engine accordingly. You cannot just put them in gear and expect the boat to whip around like an inboard sportfisherman. Outboards have smaller wheels and are closer together, but that doesn't mean they won't spin. They most certainly will.

Also, trim your engines UP a bit to direct prop thrust & the associated turbulence UNDER the hull so it doesn't hit the transom, interfering with efficient prop thrust.

If he puts a single on a 282, he will have a personal docking nightmare any time the wind is blowing or a tidal current is running.

You guys are all correct, except that I only have strong current and wind. Getting a day without those is a rarity. Current at the slip is 2-5knots all the time and wind is perpendicular to that at 5-10 knots all the time. My point about rotating is that the forces around me necessitate a very quick docking maneuver and rotating hasn't helped.