I was reading on another forum that a guy with a newer 282 sailfish was running in choppy 3 to 5 foot seas and said he was very disappointed with the ride and performance of his sailfish stating he couldnt go any faster than 13 mph without getting beat up. He also stated he thought he had a non- bluewater boat. Anyway my question is have any of you guys with sailfish's or smaller boats been in these seas with the same complaints? I personally took my boat through similar conditions for about 60 miles and was comfortable at 18 to 20 mph. I am very happy with my boat and just asking for others experiences with their Grady in poorer weather conditions.
Sailfish in tight 3 to 5 foot seas
- Thread starter Grady282owner
- Start date
My last boat was a 272 Sailfish Twin F225's and the ride depended on how you had the boat trimed. If the seas were up and close just trimed the motors and tabs down to take advantage of the deep V to cut through the water. Off Ponce Inlet we usually fish 30 to 100 miles off shore I also made many trips to the Bahamas. I have been in flat seas to 8 to 10 in Bahamas crossings. A few years ago on a return trip from the Abacos back to Florida we encountered a group of large Sea Rays that wew turning around because it was too rough. Another boat( 40 Cabo) and I keep on going never felt unsafe. It was one of the best riding boats that I have owned. I have a 33 Express now and at times I miss the speed of the Sailfish.
IMO there isn't another boat that size that rides like it does.
IMO there isn't another boat that size that rides like it does.
We have almost 1500 hrs under power, and thousands of nm under the keel. LOTS of different conditions and we encounter short, choppy seas in the Chesapeake Bay and off our capes very frequently. We have dozens of trips to the Norfolk Canyon, 75nm out, and have been through Indian River and Hatteras inlets on "unfriendly" days.
I concur with the comment above re reducing the engine trim a bit (I don't put them all the way down) and then using the tabs to bring the bow down. The extremely sharp bow entry and overall hull form will cut through those short choppy seas fairly well. We usually slow to 22kts or so, then often find ourselves at 17-18kts, STILL ON PLANE, and pushing through the slop. It is NOT a dry ride, as lots of spray will be thrown up from the bow and the wind will certainly carry some back over the boat. But that's why we leave the curtains installed year round.
So, in summary, the 282 Sailfish is much more a "blue-water" boat than the current owner is a "blue-water" skipper. Could be lack of knowledge, lack or experience, or maybe no one ever told him how to do it correctly. JMHO.
Brian
I concur with the comment above re reducing the engine trim a bit (I don't put them all the way down) and then using the tabs to bring the bow down. The extremely sharp bow entry and overall hull form will cut through those short choppy seas fairly well. We usually slow to 22kts or so, then often find ourselves at 17-18kts, STILL ON PLANE, and pushing through the slop. It is NOT a dry ride, as lots of spray will be thrown up from the bow and the wind will certainly carry some back over the boat. But that's why we leave the curtains installed year round.
So, in summary, the 282 Sailfish is much more a "blue-water" boat than the current owner is a "blue-water" skipper. Could be lack of knowledge, lack or experience, or maybe no one ever told him how to do it correctly. JMHO.
Brian
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GreatGrady Captain
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Legend
GreatGrady Captain
- Joined
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- Messages
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- Points
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- Location
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- Sailfish
I agree with the posts on Sailfish being a blue water boat - I have been out in some pretty crazy water east of Stellwagen Bank and the boat never ceases to amaze me - I have never been in what I consider an unsafe situation with the Sailfish. That is not to say I would mind trading up to a Marlin or 33 Express at some point. Last November I was returing from a tuna fishing last trio of the year and the water got pretty nasty - I saw a 36 GW returning and it was slicing through everything the Atlantic had to offer with amazing ease.
Maybe some day - for now I count the days to get the Sailfish back in the water on MAy 1
Maybe some day - for now I count the days to get the Sailfish back in the water on MAy 1
I've spent time in both the Gulf and the Atlantic, and have found there is a HUGE difference between the same reported seas on the two coasts, and also a difference in what people perceive as certain-sized seas. Even NOAA doesn't distinguish between 3-5 chop in the Gulf and 3-5 seas in the Atlantic.
I've been very comfortable in 5 and 6 foot seas off the east coast and in the Bahamas, but often 3-5' in the Gulf will beat you to death. I don't care how you run your engine trim and trim tabs; steep, short-period chop of 4' or better will beat you up in our Gradys unless you slow down. These aren't 24 degree deadrise, run-over-the-tops, go fast boats. That in no way means they're not "bluewater." Our boats are exceptionally seaworthy, and have some specific advantages over those go-fasts.
So, if you're going to run in the tall and steep stuff, you can do it safely. For comfort, experiment with your tabs and slow it down a little; no problem!
I've been very comfortable in 5 and 6 foot seas off the east coast and in the Bahamas, but often 3-5' in the Gulf will beat you to death. I don't care how you run your engine trim and trim tabs; steep, short-period chop of 4' or better will beat you up in our Gradys unless you slow down. These aren't 24 degree deadrise, run-over-the-tops, go fast boats. That in no way means they're not "bluewater." Our boats are exceptionally seaworthy, and have some specific advantages over those go-fasts.
So, if you're going to run in the tall and steep stuff, you can do it safely. For comfort, experiment with your tabs and slow it down a little; no problem!
I find here on the internet or even in real life what one man's comfort level is another man's nightmare. There is a clear difference between 3 to 5 seas with 8 seconds or more inbetween and 3 to 5 chop. Like others said, the shorter the wave period the nastier the ride in many boats. I have fished 3 to 5 in my 228 and I have been caught in the Florida Keys in 3 to 5 chop inside the reef during a nasty thrunderstorm with 40 knot plus straight line winds in my 192. Even in those nasty seas I had confidence in the 192 and we were going between 12-15 in that boat. I have fished on sailfish with the Daytona Grady club a few years ago in snotty seas and it was a very nice ride. I like the comment it is a blue water boat but the captain is not a blue water captain...classic. Do any of you guys with big boats run 30+ mph/knots in snotty seas?
3-5 foot chop varries greatly, from person to person. I'm from NJ, if there is a stiff NE wind there will be 3-5's (or more) and it's not going to be a nice ride. She'll do 20-25 and give a few good sprays but you never feel unsafe (if you know what you're doing). If you go too slow the water will push her around and if you go too fast you'll stuff the bow. We were out trolling 2 weekends ago for bass, the anchor got a little cleaner but she rode fine on the way in.
The 'other' forum is quite interesting. Younger demographic that caters primarily to Center Console dual and triple engine setups. Most posters are quite glued to anything speed related and fishing secondary. Oh, one more thing......any post about GW is usually negative until countered by intelligent responses from GW owners. 3' seas or 10' seas......depends on wave intervals for any size boat under 50'. Sailfish is absolutely a bluewater boat. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the replies guys. I feel the same way and agree with all the above posts. I dont go out when the weather forecast is bad but sometimes it is wrong or it takes a unexpected turn for the worse. It is under those conditions that I have been out in that makes me feel like I do have a blue water boat and am completely comfortable knowing that it is safe and I find a comfortable ride in the conditions I have been in. I was just disappointed in the persons post stating he was disappointed with the ride etc. of his 282 and a little offended. Maybe that was his goal? But either way Grady white has been the best boat I have owned and I will not hesitate to buy another when I do upgrade.
Coconut330 said:
The Sailfish is a great boat and is bluewater-worthy, but there are certainly 28' cabin boats that ride better, including particularly the Carolina Classic and Albemarle. Those boats will rock a lot more on the drift or at anchor and consume a lot of fuel, but they have great rides. If there weren't trade-offs, we would all have the same type of boat.
The key i found is to trim the motors down and use tabs to bring the bow into the seas. Yes there will be spray but the ride will be more tame. Take the same seas with up trim and there will be pounding. I absolutely love the boat!!
Yes trimming the motors in and tabs down to keep the bow down works great, turns the boat into a plow. However, when the wave break over the bow make you want to slow down, I found it better to just go with the flow and pick the best speed for the seas. I know my boat can handle the seas but not sure I can. Any thing over six footers I head for home, no sense in beating my self up.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
* It is I, the originator of the article from the Hull Truth....I just stumbled onto this site because I use to be a GW fan. I stand by my point, the Sailfish is not a Blue water boat...this vessel is a compromise..."a modified deep V hull"...not a Deep V hull. Please read the literature on the Sea V 2 hull and let's talk. While the ride that day was safe and dry, at no time did this boat perform well on the way back to the "grave yard" to Oregon Inlet. Frankly I have had 200 ton licensed Captain's teach me few boats under 40' will perform as I expected in those seas...it is all expctation managment.
* What I have learned is my boat is a compromise....what I have learned is I need a hull like a Contender or Regulator....yes these vessels are not fuel efficient like my GW...like one of our colleagues said...this is a trade off....but these boats will SLICE through 3-5 chop. On this day the wind was 10-15 on the port bow with a port bow quartering sea...it was rough for anyone....we had no business in this stuff and we were on our way home.
* Regarding my skill as a "blue water Captain", let's not speak from emotion but from facts. I am not...do you have the credentials to cast stones? Do you have a license from the USCG? I have a few however I don't consider myself a Captain...I am blue water from living with a US Navy family from Key West to Norfolk and born in the Sub fleet in New London and living over the northern hemisphere for over 20 years on active duty. Until I was injured from an Airborne Operation you could drop me in any sea/ocean in the water and I was confident of my ability to read the seas and survive....even in the canals of Holland
. Conversely, my colleague on this vessels is a Blue Water Captain (USMC Force Recon fully qualified) licensed by the Federal Government and been in the Marine business for over 24 years....I can assure you he knew what he was doing.
* Now, don't argue from emotion about GW vessels, the vessel is acceptable hoever the keel is not Blue Water....the staff at GW is awesome...I will carry Danny's ruck sack at GW in NC for as far as I can.
* FYI, many sport fishers have slick keels...great bows, strakes and chines like our GW....but slick keels like our GWs..I was just on a 52 custom sport fisher and I bounced way too much. I can now probably discuss with you more about hull engineering and stuffing bows then I care to....maybe I can learn from you? Let's talk about our GWs....I have done my homework and can speak from the bow to the stern and along the free walls. How are your thru hulls...are you current or do you still have the old through hulls GW told us to change out or face a potential salvage operation? I will match my marine maintenance to almost anyone.
* FYI, on that particular day at the dock at Oregon Inlet my GW received compliments regarding how clean this soon to be ten year old boat is.
* The premium hull I have found is the 31 Bertram...what a vessel but I cannot trailer this vessel like I can pull my GW.
* Regarding the seas...we did not go in the 3-5s...we don't go if the first number is 3...it so happens this day went South and we came home...for me, I was disappointed.
* The GW is a awesome bay boat and will do OK in calm seas in the Atlantic, but I can assure you, I will not buy another modified GW.
* As the Frigate class keel is to the Destroyer class keel; the GW modified hull is to the Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin hull.
* Thank you for your time and energy you put into this question...I enjoy learning from you all. Hope to see you on the water and learn from your knowledge and experience.
* Please send constructive comments or email me directly with facts.
Safe seas and dry decks!
* It is I, the originator of the article from the Hull Truth....I just stumbled onto this site because I use to be a GW fan. I stand by my point, the Sailfish is not a Blue water boat...this vessel is a compromise..."a modified deep V hull"...not a Deep V hull. Please read the literature on the Sea V 2 hull and let's talk. While the ride that day was safe and dry, at no time did this boat perform well on the way back to the "grave yard" to Oregon Inlet. Frankly I have had 200 ton licensed Captain's teach me few boats under 40' will perform as I expected in those seas...it is all expctation managment.
* What I have learned is my boat is a compromise....what I have learned is I need a hull like a Contender or Regulator....yes these vessels are not fuel efficient like my GW...like one of our colleagues said...this is a trade off....but these boats will SLICE through 3-5 chop. On this day the wind was 10-15 on the port bow with a port bow quartering sea...it was rough for anyone....we had no business in this stuff and we were on our way home.
* Regarding my skill as a "blue water Captain", let's not speak from emotion but from facts. I am not...do you have the credentials to cast stones? Do you have a license from the USCG? I have a few however I don't consider myself a Captain...I am blue water from living with a US Navy family from Key West to Norfolk and born in the Sub fleet in New London and living over the northern hemisphere for over 20 years on active duty. Until I was injured from an Airborne Operation you could drop me in any sea/ocean in the water and I was confident of my ability to read the seas and survive....even in the canals of Holland
. Conversely, my colleague on this vessels is a Blue Water Captain (USMC Force Recon fully qualified) licensed by the Federal Government and been in the Marine business for over 24 years....I can assure you he knew what he was doing.* Now, don't argue from emotion about GW vessels, the vessel is acceptable hoever the keel is not Blue Water....the staff at GW is awesome...I will carry Danny's ruck sack at GW in NC for as far as I can.
* FYI, many sport fishers have slick keels...great bows, strakes and chines like our GW....but slick keels like our GWs..I was just on a 52 custom sport fisher and I bounced way too much. I can now probably discuss with you more about hull engineering and stuffing bows then I care to....maybe I can learn from you? Let's talk about our GWs....I have done my homework and can speak from the bow to the stern and along the free walls. How are your thru hulls...are you current or do you still have the old through hulls GW told us to change out or face a potential salvage operation? I will match my marine maintenance to almost anyone.
* FYI, on that particular day at the dock at Oregon Inlet my GW received compliments regarding how clean this soon to be ten year old boat is.
* The premium hull I have found is the 31 Bertram...what a vessel but I cannot trailer this vessel like I can pull my GW.
* Regarding the seas...we did not go in the 3-5s...we don't go if the first number is 3...it so happens this day went South and we came home...for me, I was disappointed.
* The GW is a awesome bay boat and will do OK in calm seas in the Atlantic, but I can assure you, I will not buy another modified GW.
* As the Frigate class keel is to the Destroyer class keel; the GW modified hull is to the Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin hull.
* Thank you for your time and energy you put into this question...I enjoy learning from you all. Hope to see you on the water and learn from your knowledge and experience.
* Please send constructive comments or email me directly with facts.
Safe seas and dry decks!
"As the Frigate class keel is to the Destroyer class keel; the GW modified hull is to the Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin hull"
It's apples and oranges. You can't compare a stepped hull center console to a walk-around. An Albie or CC is a better comparison but until you drove those boats in all conditions don't be so harsh. There are drawbacks to a steep hull (more than the rock). Lobster style boat have close to 0 deadrise but are more "blue water" than any of the boats mentioned. You don't want to be in a hurry but you'll get home in just about anything.
3-5's are not that bad in a Sailfish, sure the above center consoles will leave you in the dust but I wouldn't want to be bottom fishing on one of them that day.
It's apples and oranges. You can't compare a stepped hull center console to a walk-around. An Albie or CC is a better comparison but until you drove those boats in all conditions don't be so harsh. There are drawbacks to a steep hull (more than the rock). Lobster style boat have close to 0 deadrise but are more "blue water" than any of the boats mentioned. You don't want to be in a hurry but you'll get home in just about anything.
3-5's are not that bad in a Sailfish, sure the above center consoles will leave you in the dust but I wouldn't want to be bottom fishing on one of them that day.
282 Sailfish said:Ladies and Gentlemen,
* It is I, the originator of the article from the Hull Truth....I just stumbled onto this site because I use to be a GW fan. I stand by my point, the Sailfish is not a Blue water boat...this vessel is a compromise..."a modified deep V hull"...not a Deep V hull. Please read the literature on the Sea V 2 hull and let's talk. While the ride that day was safe and dry, at no time did this boat perform well on the way back to the "grave yard" to Oregon Inlet. Frankly I have had 200 ton licensed Captain's teach me few boats under 40' will perform as I expected in those seas...it is all expctation managment.
* What I have learned is my boat is a compromise....what I have learned is I need a hull like a Contender or Regulator....yes these vessels are not fuel efficient like my GW...like one of our colleagues said...this is a trade off....but these boats will SLICE through 3-5 chop. On this day the wind was 10-15 on the port bow with a port bow quartering sea...it was rough for anyone....we had no business in this stuff and we were on our way home.
* Regarding my skill as a "blue water Captain", let's not speak from emotion but from facts. I am not...do you have the credentials to cast stones? Do you have a license from the USCG? I have a few however I don't consider myself a Captain...I am blue water from living with a US Navy family from Key West to Norfolk and born in the Sub fleet in New London and living over the northern hemisphere for over 20 years on active duty. Until I was injured from an Airborne Operation you could drop me in any sea/ocean in the water and I was confident of my ability to read the seas and survive....even in the canals of Holland
* Now, don't argue from emotion about GW vessels, the vessel is acceptable hoever the keel is not Blue Water....the staff at GW is awesome...I will carry Danny's ruck sack at GW in NC for as far as I can.
* FYI, many sport fishers have slick keels...great bows, strakes and chines like our GW....but slick keels like our GWs..I was just on a 52 custom sport fisher and I bounced way too much. I can now probably discuss with you more about hull engineering and stuffing bows then I care to....maybe I can learn from you? Let's talk about our GWs....I have done my homework and can speak from the bow to the stern and along the free walls. How are your thru hulls...are you current or do you still have the old through hulls GW told us to change out or face a potential salvage operation? I will match my marine maintenance to almost anyone.
* FYI, on that particular day at the dock at Oregon Inlet my GW received compliments regarding how clean this soon to be ten year old boat is.
* The premium hull I have found is the 31 Bertram...what a vessel but I cannot trailer this vessel like I can pull my GW.
* Regarding the seas...we did not go in the 3-5s...we don't go if the first number is 3...it so happens this day went South and we came home...for me, I was disappointed.
* The GW is a awesome bay boat and will do OK in calm seas in the Atlantic, but I can assure you, I will not buy another modified GW.
* As the Frigate class keel is to the Destroyer class keel; the GW modified hull is to the Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin hull.
* Thank you for your time and energy you put into this question...I enjoy learning from you all. Hope to see you on the water and learn from your knowledge and experience.
* Please send constructive comments or email me directly with facts.
Safe seas and dry decks!
Why would you purchase a boat of compromise....especially with your sea experience?
This is very interesting. The last post being about warship hulls.
It's not the first time someone who bought a Grady reported dissatisfaction with ride.
It's also not the first time such sensitivity is expressed by Grady owners here and at THT over anything stated not positive.
It's not the first time someone reported sea conditions in the same way that is essentially useless to compare against by anyone else but same person in different boats in same seas.
The Sailfish planes at about 18 mph minimum and off plane is reasonable/typical at 13 mph to keep the bow up, in both cases full tabs. So you either can plane it or not, in borderlne seas. Your back is good or not, etc. Head seas or following seas, at what angle approach etc, etc.
Albes and Carolina Classics are very heavy boats and with their massive motors. So make your Grady heavier and you are more likely to keep from flying in the air while seated or standing in beyond-boderline seas at speed, and breaking your back! Invite the local HS football team out and see for yourself, and all with the same exact hull.
As usual, no one should ever buy a boat w/o sea trial, Gradys too, but since people buy cars on the internet w/o ever test driving them, I guess it's all the same. People must have the money to burn on the huge loss on trade-in, that's why used but same year manufactured Gradys are for sale ?
I wonder, can I buy a Grady off the internet?
It's not the first time someone who bought a Grady reported dissatisfaction with ride.
It's also not the first time such sensitivity is expressed by Grady owners here and at THT over anything stated not positive.
It's not the first time someone reported sea conditions in the same way that is essentially useless to compare against by anyone else but same person in different boats in same seas.
The Sailfish planes at about 18 mph minimum and off plane is reasonable/typical at 13 mph to keep the bow up, in both cases full tabs. So you either can plane it or not, in borderlne seas. Your back is good or not, etc. Head seas or following seas, at what angle approach etc, etc.
Albes and Carolina Classics are very heavy boats and with their massive motors. So make your Grady heavier and you are more likely to keep from flying in the air while seated or standing in beyond-boderline seas at speed, and breaking your back! Invite the local HS football team out and see for yourself, and all with the same exact hull.
As usual, no one should ever buy a boat w/o sea trial, Gradys too, but since people buy cars on the internet w/o ever test driving them, I guess it's all the same. People must have the money to burn on the huge loss on trade-in, that's why used but same year manufactured Gradys are for sale ?
I wonder, can I buy a Grady off the internet?
Last weekend, the last for snapper in the gulf, we had a period of 3 to 5s. Our 228G handled them well. It took us about one hour to reach 20 miles offshore and about three hours to return. Not only is the boat hull important in the ride, but also the direction of the wind. I think that Grady makes the best boat for the size that I have ever been on. And that includes 67 years of living and owning boats plus 4 years active duty in the USCG. You can't please everyone, heck some people are not happy. . .eating ice cream.
They are a variable dead rise, this doesn't mean they are not blue water. They certainly are, period, end of argument. Everything in life is a compromise: a steeper, deeper V will cut better and roll more this doesn't mean it is more bluewater, as stated earlier downeasters are as bluewater as any boat made without nearly the V of other hull designs. Can't make everyone happy, but Grady has made me happy 3 times over now.
Frank has it right.
As to the fellow who is disappointed, sorry to hear that but you presented you opinions well without some of the clueless BS often seen on that other forum (who I have all but abandoned). It may be that a GW is not the boat for you. I beg to differ on not being a bluewater however. I fished mine 60 nm in the stream many days. I also wound in in an honest 5-6 on a day which was forecast to be half that. Sure I came in from 30nm slow but the boat handled it.
Deep Vs do indeed take a headsea well but they can be downright squirrelly in a following sea and corkscrew like crazy in beam sea.
I prefer the stability and being able to cruise without my wife getting sick. To each his own but no one should be foolish enough to believe that a deeper V is always better. Just ain't so. :doh
As to the fellow who is disappointed, sorry to hear that but you presented you opinions well without some of the clueless BS often seen on that other forum (who I have all but abandoned). It may be that a GW is not the boat for you. I beg to differ on not being a bluewater however. I fished mine 60 nm in the stream many days. I also wound in in an honest 5-6 on a day which was forecast to be half that. Sure I came in from 30nm slow but the boat handled it.
Deep Vs do indeed take a headsea well but they can be downright squirrelly in a following sea and corkscrew like crazy in beam sea.
I prefer the stability and being able to cruise without my wife getting sick. To each his own but no one should be foolish enough to believe that a deeper V is always better. Just ain't so. :doh