I absolutely concur with those who believe, as I do, that the Sailfish is a bluewater boat. We've run our '97 out 30 miles and through nasty inlets with wicked cross currents in all manner of wind and tide conditions, and with judicious use of trim throttles and smart steering, never felt uncomfortable. OK, so we kicked up a little spray. No big deal.
Sailfish in tight 3 to 5 foot seas
- Thread starter Grady282owner
- Start date
If a boat, Grady or otherwise, gets you out and back safely in 3-5's,4-7's; close packed or residual groundswell-- whatever; then to me it qualifies as a bluewater boat.
I can't imagine any boat being pass-the-pretzels comfortable in seas of that size. If the boat is seaworthy and safe, as Gradys certainly are, then why is it not a bluewater rig?
I can't imagine any boat being pass-the-pretzels comfortable in seas of that size. If the boat is seaworthy and safe, as Gradys certainly are, then why is it not a bluewater rig?
282 Sailfish said:* Regarding my skill as a "blue water Captain", let's not speak from emotion but from facts. I am not...do you have the credentials to cast stones? Do you have a license from the USCG? I have a few however I don't consider myself a Captain...I am blue water from living with a US Navy family from Key West to Norfolk and born in the Sub fleet in New London and living over the northern hemisphere for over 20 years on active duty. Until I was injured from an Airborne Operation you could drop me in any sea/ocean in the water and I was confident of my ability to read the seas and survive....even in the canals of Holland. Conversely, my colleague on this vessels is a Blue Water Captain (USMC Force Recon fully qualified) licensed by the Federal Government and been in the Marine business for over 24 years....I can assure you he knew what he was doing.
I would counter with this...
I have been a licensed 100 Ton Master Captain for more than 20 years. My original sea time was 100% generated in the NW Pacific Ocean off of Oregon where I was raised working on commercial and charter fishing vessels. Further sea time and running of charter vessels was in Alaska. The NW Pacific faces near constant swell and wind chop during the effective summer fishing season which is May through September. Average swell heights of 4-6 foot at 8-10 seconds, with afternoon winds and chop of 2-4 foot very common. Our bar crossings are the only place in the USA that are regulated and closed with regular frequency by the USCG. The Columbia River Bar, which is recognized as one of the most dangerous and challenging navigated stretches of water in the world is home to the USCG Motor Lifeboat School where all USCG Surf boatmen train.
For the past 7 years I have been operating a small, high end charter out of Depoe Bay, OR- The "hole in the wall". I also cross the Columbia River Bar, the Newport Bar, and TIllamook Bar pursuing offshore tuna throughout the summer. My choice of vessel that provides true off shore "blue water" capability, safety, decent speed, a versatile fishing platform, and still trailerable was for the previous 6 years, a 1992 GW 252 Sailfish. After 6 years operating that boat in all manners of different rough sea conditions, regularly taking customers 40-50 miles offshore, I opted to sell that vessel and purchased a 2005 GW 282 Sailfish. I have operated on many GW Marlins, other 282's, Bertrams, Ocean Sport Roamers, 43' and 50' Deltas, Hoquiums, Tollys, and yes, even a friend of mine has a 33' Hydrasport.
While there are compromises in all boats, I have found the GW 282 to be a capable offshore "blue water" vessel for operating 40-60 miles offshore. I very nearly purchased an Albemarle 32 for the head sea ride, but decided that the trade-off of a full water kept non-trailerable boat was not worth it. I have no problem running the 282 for long distances in moderate chop. I have on occasion had to run for several hours in 25-30 knot winds into quartering seas with solid 6 foot chop. This is certainly not pleasant, but the boat is still capable.
So, there is my professional background operating a GW 252 and GW 282 in the NW Pacific with the safety of passengers being of utmost concern. I would suggest that the 282 is very much a blue water boat, and that anyone that disagrees either has too much big boat time to understand what is a pocket sportfish boat is all about, or just likes to complain. You have to be in the boat in the conditions long enough to learn how to run it. One day in a particular boat, no matter how experienced with other vessels, will not give you the ability to operate the boat effectively.
Mike Jespersen
Nalu Charters
282 Welcome to the great grady forum. Without knowing your background on your offshore experience, perhaps some of us did assume some things on your skill set we should not have.
With that said, I have been aboard a few boat myself and while not USCG master license holder, I can say I bought my two Grady's because they are well built and well designed to do what they do. My family and crew safety is paramount to me and likely many here too. I was in the Keys this summer when that darn SE high kicked up 20-25 knot east winds and it basically shuts down fishing and snorkeling down there when this happens. We found a quite spot inside of Big Pine Key where the kids could play in calm water, but the rub was we had to run in Hawk Chanel for a few miles from Bahia Honda to Big Pine Key Newfound Harbor. It was snotty 3 and 4 foot choppy water to get there. My 228 handled it quite well coming and going. There was a guy in a Sailfish/Scout or similar walkaround about the same size as the 228 and he was getting the snot beat out of him and he eventually turned around and went back in. We were side by side maybe 200 feet apart and the Grady was clearly riding better than his boat. I caught the guy as I was behind him for a while, so not only was the Grady riding better, it was doing it faster too. My wife told me when we got back to port how much she appreciated buying a quality boat like we bought. She never felt in danger.
Is my boat a Regulator or speed demon Contender? No, but she is sea worthy and getting back to port safely when caught in bad weather is what counts to me and my crew. Are those other brands sea worthy and blue water boats...sure are and if I was in a center console guy I would look at them too. i am not sure there is a perfect boat out there, but I am sure Grady makes a solid sea worthy boat.
With that said, I have been aboard a few boat myself and while not USCG master license holder, I can say I bought my two Grady's because they are well built and well designed to do what they do. My family and crew safety is paramount to me and likely many here too. I was in the Keys this summer when that darn SE high kicked up 20-25 knot east winds and it basically shuts down fishing and snorkeling down there when this happens. We found a quite spot inside of Big Pine Key where the kids could play in calm water, but the rub was we had to run in Hawk Chanel for a few miles from Bahia Honda to Big Pine Key Newfound Harbor. It was snotty 3 and 4 foot choppy water to get there. My 228 handled it quite well coming and going. There was a guy in a Sailfish/Scout or similar walkaround about the same size as the 228 and he was getting the snot beat out of him and he eventually turned around and went back in. We were side by side maybe 200 feet apart and the Grady was clearly riding better than his boat. I caught the guy as I was behind him for a while, so not only was the Grady riding better, it was doing it faster too. My wife told me when we got back to port how much she appreciated buying a quality boat like we bought. She never felt in danger.
Is my boat a Regulator or speed demon Contender? No, but she is sea worthy and getting back to port safely when caught in bad weather is what counts to me and my crew. Are those other brands sea worthy and blue water boats...sure are and if I was in a center console guy I would look at them too. i am not sure there is a perfect boat out there, but I am sure Grady makes a solid sea worthy boat.
Like rcrudder, I pushed the snapper season a little last month and got caught in 3 to 5 ft seas about 60 miles offshore in the Gulf. My 283 got us back at about 20-22 mph and we never felt unsafe. I think the 283 and the 282 are the same hull and for my use, I wouldn't trade my 283 for anything.
I'm sure that the Gulf of Mexico does not have weather as bad as some of you get in the Pacific N/W or the Atlantic N/E but it sure can kick your ass if you are not careful.
I'm sure that the Gulf of Mexico does not have weather as bad as some of you get in the Pacific N/W or the Atlantic N/E but it sure can kick your ass if you are not careful.
282 -
How did you come to acquire the Sailfish when you already know of the Bertram 31? Was it before or after you found out?
Just seeing a 31 Bertram hull blocked up on the marina drydock says it all, but you thought the outboard powered any brand boat will do the same ?
It's a shame if a Grady dealer salesman did a number on you, I thought Grady dealers would not make a sale new or brokered w/o sea trail. In your case, it would have to be flags flying stiff that day, which always can be arranged. As would be my case by demand.
But that's the buyer's responsibility to see to it.
In this sale both you and Grady didn't benefit, some salesman benefitted if there was one.
Lesson learned.
Both the Sailfish and Bertram 31 and a few others are legends that created entire industries and replicas looking to get a piece of the new action, the Sailfish for different reasons entirely, as the twin powered wide beam outboards became known as pocket rockets for tuna and shark fishermen, ie , offshore, for the first time considered ok to do so in such boats.
So less well heeled can run out to the Mud Hole and other places like it. Although MAKO had Grady beat bad in the 70s and well into the 80s with more deadrise and was part of pocket rocket creation, they fell by the wayside. Grady sustained it, that's fact.
Before you go for the regulator or contender or any other similar size and beam outboard powered boat of any deadrise, variable or not, be sure to sea trail as they too have nothing on the Bertram 31.
At speeds water is more solid than cakelike, so no cutting with knives unless loaded up with concrete ballast.
If you still want outboards, I hear the cats are for those who don't want sea conditions to cancel their day, and for getting out and back as fast as possible. The very reason Grady themselves designed and sold two different cat models.
As far as Grady goes, only two boats are legends, the 20 ft Overnighter and Sailfish, owned both, nothing sold with outboards provides more boat in 20 ft or 25 foot respectevely, IMHO. Sold the 20 footer after 5 yrs for almost what I paid for it.
That's why so many are seen in fishing oriented marinas anywhere fishermen are found (ie where no bayliners are found), I can speak for Long Island.
To say the least, Montauk is Grady heaven, as well as Yamaha heaven. And yes, Bertram 31s too, we all fish side by side out here.
How did you come to acquire the Sailfish when you already know of the Bertram 31? Was it before or after you found out?
Just seeing a 31 Bertram hull blocked up on the marina drydock says it all, but you thought the outboard powered any brand boat will do the same ?
It's a shame if a Grady dealer salesman did a number on you, I thought Grady dealers would not make a sale new or brokered w/o sea trail. In your case, it would have to be flags flying stiff that day, which always can be arranged. As would be my case by demand.
But that's the buyer's responsibility to see to it.
In this sale both you and Grady didn't benefit, some salesman benefitted if there was one.
Lesson learned.
Both the Sailfish and Bertram 31 and a few others are legends that created entire industries and replicas looking to get a piece of the new action, the Sailfish for different reasons entirely, as the twin powered wide beam outboards became known as pocket rockets for tuna and shark fishermen, ie , offshore, for the first time considered ok to do so in such boats.
So less well heeled can run out to the Mud Hole and other places like it. Although MAKO had Grady beat bad in the 70s and well into the 80s with more deadrise and was part of pocket rocket creation, they fell by the wayside. Grady sustained it, that's fact.
Before you go for the regulator or contender or any other similar size and beam outboard powered boat of any deadrise, variable or not, be sure to sea trail as they too have nothing on the Bertram 31.
At speeds water is more solid than cakelike, so no cutting with knives unless loaded up with concrete ballast.
If you still want outboards, I hear the cats are for those who don't want sea conditions to cancel their day, and for getting out and back as fast as possible. The very reason Grady themselves designed and sold two different cat models.
As far as Grady goes, only two boats are legends, the 20 ft Overnighter and Sailfish, owned both, nothing sold with outboards provides more boat in 20 ft or 25 foot respectevely, IMHO. Sold the 20 footer after 5 yrs for almost what I paid for it.
That's why so many are seen in fishing oriented marinas anywhere fishermen are found (ie where no bayliners are found), I can speak for Long Island.
To say the least, Montauk is Grady heaven, as well as Yamaha heaven. And yes, Bertram 31s too, we all fish side by side out here.
Sorry if I'm late jumping in on this thread but I haven't been here in a while.
I think the recent comment about guys who have too much "big boat time" complaining about Grady's is spot on. Until I bought my 248 voyager all my boating was on my grandfathers 44' Striker and then his 32' Blackfin. The first time I ran my Grady in heavy waves I was surprised at how the boat "pounded". As soon as I figured out how to run her correctly I was MUCH happier! I will tell you one thing; my Grady was absolutely trouble free. Can't say that about grandpas boats...
Recently sold my Grady and bought an inboard 34' express for more room in the cabin. I would have loved a 33 grady but found a great freshwater boat for what I think was a killer deal. As soon as the GW 36' has a few more years under her and the used prices come down some I will be looking forward to Grady shopping again!!
I think the recent comment about guys who have too much "big boat time" complaining about Grady's is spot on. Until I bought my 248 voyager all my boating was on my grandfathers 44' Striker and then his 32' Blackfin. The first time I ran my Grady in heavy waves I was surprised at how the boat "pounded". As soon as I figured out how to run her correctly I was MUCH happier! I will tell you one thing; my Grady was absolutely trouble free. Can't say that about grandpas boats...
Recently sold my Grady and bought an inboard 34' express for more room in the cabin. I would have loved a 33 grady but found a great freshwater boat for what I think was a killer deal. As soon as the GW 36' has a few more years under her and the used prices come down some I will be looking forward to Grady shopping again!!
I have read both threads and I am still not sure if the OP said it was Tight 3 to 5 ft Chop Or if it was spread. I have had my 100 ton masters for over 30 years and have run in all types of seas. I have own a few Gradys in my day, if you ran in a 3 to 5 ft chop with 10 to 15 wind speed and had that bad of a ride on a 282, you must have not had the engines trimmed right or the trim tabs right. Or maybe you were in a bigger seas and wind chop then you are reporting? I will say the Oregon Inlet is one nasty place at times. I think its really hard to compare seas and conditions when everyone is from different places with different boats. I have been on 300 Marlins, 265 express, 25ft Sailfish, 242 OffShore and 228 and 208 Gradys and would have no problem riding offshore in all of these Gradys except the Grady 242. The Grady 242 was good in a following seas or even a beamed sea, it sucked on a head sea as it pounded very bad. I have never heard of anyone talking about a bad ride in the 282 tho. I have never been on a 282 tho so I can't really say how the 282 rides. I would like to hear from more owners of the 282. :welcome282 Sailfish said:Ladies and Gentlemen,
* It is I, the originator of the article from the Hull Truth....I just stumbled onto this site because I use to be a GW fan. I stand by my point, the Sailfish is not a Blue water boat...this vessel is a compromise..."a modified deep V hull"...not a Deep V hull. Please read the literature on the Sea V 2 hull and let's talk. While the ride that day was safe and dry, at no time did this boat perform well on the way back to the "grave yard" to Oregon Inlet. Frankly I have had 200 ton licensed Captain's teach me few boats under 40' will perform as I expected in those seas...it is all expctation managment.
* What I have learned is my boat is a compromise....what I have learned is I need a hull like a Contender or Regulator....yes these vessels are not fuel efficient like my GW...like one of our colleagues said...this is a trade off....but these boats will SLICE through 3-5 chop. On this day the wind was 10-15 on the port bow with a port bow quartering sea...it was rough for anyone....we had no business in this stuff and we were on our way home.
* Regarding my skill as a "blue water Captain", let's not speak from emotion but from facts. I am not...do you have the credentials to cast stones? Do you have a license from the USCG? I have a few however I don't consider myself a Captain...I am blue water from living with a US Navy family from Key West to Norfolk and born in the Sub fleet in New London and living over the northern hemisphere for over 20 years on active duty. Until I was injured from an Airborne Operation you could drop me in any sea/ocean in the water and I was confident of my ability to read the seas and survive....even in the canals of Holland
* Now, don't argue from emotion about GW vessels, the vessel is acceptable hoever the keel is not Blue Water....the staff at GW is awesome...I will carry Danny's ruck sack at GW in NC for as far as I can.
* FYI, many sport fishers have slick keels...great bows, strakes and chines like our GW....but slick keels like our GWs..I was just on a 52 custom sport fisher and I bounced way too much. I can now probably discuss with you more about hull engineering and stuffing bows then I care to....maybe I can learn from you? Let's talk about our GWs....I have done my homework and can speak from the bow to the stern and along the free walls. How are your thru hulls...are you current or do you still have the old through hulls GW told us to change out or face a potential salvage operation? I will match my marine maintenance to almost anyone.
* FYI, on that particular day at the dock at Oregon Inlet my GW received compliments regarding how clean this soon to be ten year old boat is.
* The premium hull I have found is the 31 Bertram...what a vessel but I cannot trailer this vessel like I can pull my GW.
* Regarding the seas...we did not go in the 3-5s...we don't go if the first number is 3...it so happens this day went South and we came home...for me, I was disappointed.
* The GW is a awesome bay boat and will do OK in calm seas in the Atlantic, but I can assure you, I will not buy another modified GW.
* As the Frigate class keel is to the Destroyer class keel; the GW modified hull is to the Contender/Regulator/Yellowfin hull.
* Thank you for your time and energy you put into this question...I enjoy learning from you all. Hope to see you on the water and learn from your knowledge and experience.
* Please send constructive comments or email me directly with facts.
Safe seas and dry decks!
Jellyfish,
I wrote tight 3 to 5's for the simple fact that it stated a 3 to 5 chop. It didnt state 3 to 5 foot swells. I dont think too many boats would have any problems in swells. A chop with the frequency I think would be a problem for many. Not for the 282 sailfish but many other boats I think it may cause a problem. I have been in 3 to 5 foot chop with my 282 and I had no problem or felt unsafe at any time. I also traveled between 17 and 21 mph during those conditions and was more than comfortable. Sorry if I was mistaken on the post I read but I interpret as I believe most will that a chop is tight and closely spaced waves.
I wrote tight 3 to 5's for the simple fact that it stated a 3 to 5 chop. It didnt state 3 to 5 foot swells. I dont think too many boats would have any problems in swells. A chop with the frequency I think would be a problem for many. Not for the 282 sailfish but many other boats I think it may cause a problem. I have been in 3 to 5 foot chop with my 282 and I had no problem or felt unsafe at any time. I also traveled between 17 and 21 mph during those conditions and was more than comfortable. Sorry if I was mistaken on the post I read but I interpret as I believe most will that a chop is tight and closely spaced waves.
no problem, I agree when you think of 3ft to 5ft chop you think tight, anyway, its really hard to understand everything if you were not on the boat at the time, so we just have to go by what he posted. I think he needs to take the boat out a few more times and run her. I would love to hear from more 282 owners as this boat is on my list as one I would like to own down the line. I love the 300 Marlin. Thats on my short list as well. :dance
I've had both. Bigger boat = better ride = more money. It's a simple equation. :doh
Seriously, I estimate my current Marlin could take the same conditions with the same comfort level 3-5 kts faster. For my it's all about comfort. I am not going to get beat to death unless there is a critical reason to get back quickly. The main factor that keeps me away from a deep V is that I can slow down to quit pounding but a deep V CANNOT stop rocking and rolling.
Oddly, only once have I been in anything as large as I did several times in my 272. The worst was a solid 15 kts of NE wind building a solid capping 3-5 with several 6+ as measured by a 6' friend in the cockpit. The crest was taller than he and his feet were not at sea level. Downright scary looking but in a beam sea it just splashed us a bit.
Perhaps I am older and wiser. :<><
Seriously, I estimate my current Marlin could take the same conditions with the same comfort level 3-5 kts faster. For my it's all about comfort. I am not going to get beat to death unless there is a critical reason to get back quickly. The main factor that keeps me away from a deep V is that I can slow down to quit pounding but a deep V CANNOT stop rocking and rolling.
Oddly, only once have I been in anything as large as I did several times in my 272. The worst was a solid 15 kts of NE wind building a solid capping 3-5 with several 6+ as measured by a 6' friend in the cockpit. The crest was taller than he and his feet were not at sea level. Downright scary looking but in a beam sea it just splashed us a bit.
Perhaps I am older and wiser. :<><
MegaB, time for a new marina and a 33X !
Then you can take a nap on autopilot coming home! (Just kidding).
Back in my day (and maybe yours too) I'd go well out there in a 17ft Boston Whaler with the other guys and not think anything about it.
Anyway, hate to see anyone dissapointed with such a major expenditure. Easy enough to avoid it.
It's a shame.
Then you can take a nap on autopilot coming home! (Just kidding).
Back in my day (and maybe yours too) I'd go well out there in a 17ft Boston Whaler with the other guys and not think anything about it.
Anyway, hate to see anyone dissapointed with such a major expenditure. Easy enough to avoid it.
It's a shame.
OMG Bob, i had a 17 Montauk my self few years back(many few) and did my stupid things too with that boat(what a boat though) and if it wasn't stolen from my driveway i might of not be here today. Like Mega said, it's the hand behind the wheel first and then the size of the boat.
Oh, the sailfish IS a blue water boat.
If this was/is a blue water boat, the sailfish is not ???????????????????
BTW, the above boat is same age as me, a 60's girl, that gave me many, many days of pleasure, fun, agony(couldn't get the diesel started) and laughter than any of my other boats, I was fishing Adriatic sea with this 4.25 meter wood boat with a 5 HP Leaman(spell??) diesel/gas combo engine.
She still floats today.
Oh, the sailfish IS a blue water boat.
If this was/is a blue water boat, the sailfish is not ???????????????????
BTW, the above boat is same age as me, a 60's girl, that gave me many, many days of pleasure, fun, agony(couldn't get the diesel started) and laughter than any of my other boats, I was fishing Adriatic sea with this 4.25 meter wood boat with a 5 HP Leaman(spell??) diesel/gas combo engine.
She still floats today.
NEM, I knew you had lot more boats than the ones listed in your signature !
Looks like a sailboat mast to me, though!
For years when we were kids, my Dad's 9.9 Evinrude pushed a rental wooden monster rowboat out of Skidmores in your neck of the woods.
Still have that motor, a 1968, pickled in storage for nearly 40 yrs.
Mint condition.
I bet if I gassed it up would start in two pulls. Owners manual stated ethanol was OK to 10%, even then that stuff was around.
Anyway, much more recently, seen four adults in a 17 foot Boston Whaler tuna fishing about 20 miles southeast of the Point, and it was a bit breezy. Didn't see much boat above the waterline. After a few more beers they probably proceeded further out.
I give them credit !
I guess Whaler calls it a "Montauk" for a reason. Is it a blue water boat? That boat has probably crossed the ocean more than once.
I did similar things in my 20 ft Mako CC. Breaking waves in Jones inlet couldn't roll over that thing, as many times as I tried it seems, drifting into them on the outgoing chasing bass.
Looks like a sailboat mast to me, though!
For years when we were kids, my Dad's 9.9 Evinrude pushed a rental wooden monster rowboat out of Skidmores in your neck of the woods.
Still have that motor, a 1968, pickled in storage for nearly 40 yrs.
Mint condition.
I bet if I gassed it up would start in two pulls. Owners manual stated ethanol was OK to 10%, even then that stuff was around.
Anyway, much more recently, seen four adults in a 17 foot Boston Whaler tuna fishing about 20 miles southeast of the Point, and it was a bit breezy. Didn't see much boat above the waterline. After a few more beers they probably proceeded further out.
I give them credit !
I guess Whaler calls it a "Montauk" for a reason. Is it a blue water boat? That boat has probably crossed the ocean more than once.
I did similar things in my 20 ft Mako CC. Breaking waves in Jones inlet couldn't roll over that thing, as many times as I tried it seems, drifting into them on the outgoing chasing bass.
Bob, you are correct. That boat was made in Greece using plans from a small sailboat. The only thing it didn't have was the ballast keel. She is very good in any kind of seas under power or under sail. My father gave it to his brother when we decide to come back to the U.S for good. Every time i go to Greece(not as much as i want to) the first thing i do is go to see her and take her out , great memories, wish i was 16 again.
OP, sorry for the derail.
OP, sorry for the derail.
Legend
GreatGrady Captain
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Guys the whaler stories brought back memories - We had a 1967 13 footer with a 50 mercury (I know it was overpowered but I was 18). We took it from Green Harbor across the bay to Ptown more than once - We had a handheld compass and no electornics - I see the vintage 13 foot whalers around today with the blue interiotr and I wonder how we made it - Talk about a hard riding boat - swear my back was permanently damaged - but we had a boat load of fun
BobP said:
You got that right :bang :bang :bang
Oh, well, March 15 is around the corner :mrgreen: