Scuppers and engine in water

[BobP]

Grog, I doubt it occurred from marine growth, probably has nothing to do with marine growth, more likely to be some leaves or rags getting loose in combination with boat being left unattended for long durations during rainy season. I see guys leaving towels, swim suits, etc. and the like out to dry on their boats. They must think it's the backyard cloths line.

That's the only way for water to backflow, cockpit must be below sea level, has nothing to do with where scupper is located, scupper could have been drilled straight down the bottom of the hull.

During the off season on blocks in driveway w/o shrinkwrap, deck drains get clogged from tree leaves and pine needles/cones, if not for me checking up on it periodically, boat would have been totaled under the weight of rain/snow loading.

 

[steve-r]

weight distribution

Was speaking with a GW dealer today about the weight capacity of the 228 out drive and re-powering w. the new 4-strokes. He told me its not an outdrive load issue, rather that the fuel tanks need to be moved forward, and that the 'scupper submerged' issue is made worse if you dont have options such as a bow pulpit or a factory hardtop to add weight up front.
He told me apparently GW have started in 2008 by changing the fuel tank capacity, and moving it forward. That said, his caution was that adding a 130lb kicker to a 608lb F250 is still creates the problem even on a 2007.
Maybe he was trying to tell me issues with used 228's cuz I wasn't buying a new 2009 from him, so take it with a grain of salt.
I just can't imagine hanging a $25K motor 3 inches in the salt when at idle ....is Yamaha going to honor their warranty if its installed that way and it corrodes?

ed: just checked the 2008 specs and the fuel tank is now 125gal, and the Aux tank is no longer an option.

Steve

 

[Brad1]

Re: weight distribution

Was speaking with a GW dealer today about the weight capacity of the 228 out drive and re-powering w. the new 4-strokes. He told me its not an outdrive load issue, rather that the fuel tanks need to be moved forward, and that the 'scupper submerged' issue is made worse if you dont have options such as a bow pulpit or a factory hardtop to add weight up front.
He told me apparently GW have started in 2008 by changing the fuel tank capacity, and moving it forward. That said, his caution was that adding a 130lb kicker to a 608lb F250 is still creates the problem even on a 2007.
Maybe he was trying to tell me issues with used 228's cuz I wasn't buying a new 2009 from him, so take it with a grain of salt.
I just can't imagine hanging a $25K motor 3 inches in the salt when at idle ....is Yamaha going to honor their warranty if its installed that way and it corrodes?

ed: just checked the 2008 specs and the fuel tank is now 125gal, and the Aux tank is no longer an option.

Steve

Now I'm not one to say I told you so, but . . . .

 

[Curmudgeon]

Does it really make a big difference, or is it just semantics?

Well, if they "recommend" then Grady is not deceptively advertising. If it's a "standard", then Grady may be.

 

[choogenboom]

same problem on 1994 228G and 2004 330 Express

I had the same problem on both my Gradys - can't get the foot of the lower unit out of the water when the engine is fully tilted up. I think the right design solution is to use a 30" shaft and move the engine up 5". If you work the math of the angles that results in about a 3.5" improvement at the foot of the engine. Less of the mounting bracket would be in teh water, also a plus. Seems like a simple solution, not sure why Grady wont do it other than the 30" shafts cost more? But considering the problem has existed for many years you would think GW has had enough time to work up a solution.

On my 1994 228G w/ Yamaha 250 it seemed like the problem was getting worse when one day I pulled the boat for service and I heard water sloshing around in the gil marine bracket. I discovered water had been entering through the inspection plate and the water level was above the waterline of the boat - the bracket was literally full to the brim with seawater. I had never removed the inspection plate but when I did I discovered many of the screw holes in the nylon backing plate were stripped out, hence the leak. I blame some prior boatyard technician. In any event, I measured the water I removed just to know how many extra pounds I was carrying - it was 25 gallons of salt water or about 200+ pounds. Once I drained that and replaced the inspection plate backing ring (you can get them direct from Gil Marine) the boat sat up much higher in the water. The foot of the engine and the scuppers were still below the waterline but what an improvement! So moral of the story for you owner of GW's with engine brackets - check for water!

With regard to the scuppers on my 228G they quickly filled up with barnacles and I am sure that had I done nothing they would eventually have clogged and caused my boat to sink at the dock. So I replaced the scupper flaps and while I had them off I took a 4" wide foam "weenie roller" and coated the inside of the scupper tube with Pettit Trinidad SP bottom paint. I also painted the outside of the new scupper flaps. No more barnacles inside or outside the scupper! I used to get water in the cockpit coming in through the scuppers when stepped on the boat (I am only 170 lbs) in the transom, but after replacing the scupper flaps that problem stopped as well.

The 330 Express fortunately does have its scupper drains above the water line - hooray - but does have the same issue with the foot of engines being in the water when engines are tilted up.

 

[choogenboom]

seacocks on scuppers

In my humble opinion the balance of the risks is strongly in favor of no seacocks on the scuppers. I stored an inboard ski boat one winter and forgot to pull the drain plug. Boat filled with water resulting in a rebuild of the top end of the engine. Conversely, I have never had a boat sink due to a failed scupper hose. I can easily see a boat sinking because the scupper seacocks were inadvertently left closed.

 

[Grog]

There is no pressure on the scupper drains, it's hard for a hose to fail when there isn't pressure on it. Sure if you ignore them for years and years there might be a problem but I'd be more worried about the plastic scupper thru-hulls than the hose itself. Putting a valve there is just bad news. If you forget to open them when you leave the boat and it rains you're probably going to have a submarine. A valve for the fish boxes is a good idea but not the scuppers.


If Yamaha has a problem with the nose cones sitting in the water, then maybe they can design them to tilt more so they stay above the water. Aparently Evinrude, Mercury and maybe Zuke (can't personally verify) don't have a problem tilting more so they stay dry. Looking back I should have had my bracket made with a degree or two more so the engines are definitely out of the water. Right now they in by about an inch or two with the secondary tank full.

 

[Lucky Strike MBM]

just read this entire thread and excuse my ignorance but I just have one question for my own reference. The scuppers on the euro transom design seem to sit higher above the water line, is this a non issue on that design or does it still exist. Thanks

 

[MFP]

Grady White sent me some information from Yamaha about how to protect the motor when it sits in the water and it is tilted all the way back.. here is a link to the Yamaha web page that has new information. Enjoy.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/fa ... /home.aspx

 

[striped bass]

The transom scuppers on my T225 are also partly in the water. Last season the cockpit was draining slower than normal. The scupper outlets had a barnacle build up inhibiting the rubber flaps from opening fully to let the water exit. It took only five minutes to clear the barnacles and everything was back to normal. The bottom third of the scuppers are still in the water but the the cockpit drains fine as long as as I do a scupper check once or twice a season on the external scuppers. The torpedo also sits in the water but I am able to scrub off the scum very easily. Tashmoo is correct. This is a design flaw on GW's part and it should be corrected ASAP. The Yamaha engine torpedo issue also needs Yamaha input to make it right and I got the impression when talking with Greenville staff that Yamaha is not making any effort on their end to resolve this issue. The 4 stroke engine can tilt so far otherwise the crankcase oil in the four stroke creates issues. I would assume that during this economic downturn that not much weill be done by either party. Stay tuned.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes.

 

[striped bass]

NA2P:
Grady White upper management admits the scuppers are an issue. On the torpedo issue GW says they are working with Yamaha to resolve the problem. Don't expect any solution any time soon, however.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes.

 

[Grog]

NA2P:
Grady White upper management admits the scuppers are an issue. On the torpedo issue GW says they are working with Yamaha to resolve the problem. Don't expect any solution any time soon, however.

So is the Yamaha going to add more tilt? On most boats, if Yamahas had more tilt, they would be dry when tilted up. For the V8's, most boats don't have enough room for the motor to tilt up far enough to keep the cone out of the water.

 

[plymouthgrady]

The scuppers are supposed to be right at water level. The boat has an elevated cockpit above the waterline. Thats why the scup drains go straight down to a 90 degree then out. Gravity at its best. Hence, a self-draining cockpit.
I have the same problem with barnicles building up in my scup tubes so I plunge them from the outside with a brush handle and blast them from the inside w/ the raw water wash down (has more pressure than the fresh!). Cleans them right out.
The barnicles are a regional or an ecological issue, not a design issue, IMHO.

 

[White Horses (Mike)]

Since starting this thread a while back, I have been reading and appreciating everyone's perspective on this issue. I HOPE someone at GW monitors this site and has been reading also. I can't say if Grady is aware of the issue or not, but they clearly should be. It is CLEAR to me, that minor design revisions could get the scuppers and deck up another inch and the result would be a much safer condition and alot less maintenance and scum on the boat. As for the torpedo, that probably will require some development from Yamaha and I wouldn't hold my breath there.... (I do see Yamahas in the water on all kinds of other boats...)

The bottom line: Regardless of how "ok" this situation is, it is a disappointing to scrub barnacles out of the scuppers and watch the rubber flaps get abused after paying the cost of such an otherwise fine boat. There can be no question, that if I fail to keep up with the barnacles some summer, it will affect drainage from the cockpit, and that is a serious problem.

I will be taking notes on this condition on every other boat I see this summer and I will report back! I hope everyone has a great 2009 (Somehow!) and your boats bring you alot of joy!!!!!!!