shake down cruise gone bad, water in the fuel question

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Hi Guys:
Took the boat to the lake today, Lake Fontana in the Smokies and did not have a great day. Fontana is a dammed lake for those that do not know and it is fed by the Little Tennessee, the Nantahala, Tuckasegee Rivers plus numerous mountain streams. Anyway, during the spring rains the lake levels rise and dead wood floats. Long story short upon our return trip home we hit a submerged log and I immediately put the motor in neutral before the log reached the stern. I turned off the motor, raised it out of the water and inspected the prop and lower unit for any visible damage. none was found.

I lowered the motor back into the water and went to restart it. Nada, nothing. At first the motor turned over about 3 or 4 times, meaning I cranked it 3 or 4 times with no luck and then that was it. The starter would engage, but not turn the motor over.

3 weeks ago we installed two new AGM batteries, voltage on both batteries is 12.5 volts.

I took the cowling off and noticed some water in the engine mounted fuel filter, perhaps 25% off the filter is filled with water. I never noticed any water in the fuel warnings on the command link guages. not saying it did not turn on, just did not see it.

There was one time where I had the engine tilted completely up and the starter did engage, but would not do so when the motor is trimmed down.

So, after storing the boat for 3-4 months with a nearly full tank and using stabil, could I have a bunch of water in the fuel? I read the manual and noticed there is a water in the fuel warning section and sensor, which my motor has equipped, but if the water sensor detects water or significant amount of water does it prevent the motor from starting?

The last time I changed the main (racor)fuel filter was 50 hours ago as the motor only has 150 hours on it.

I did top of the fuel today with about 30 gallons out of 125 and added some star tron additive too. I noticed no gel in the filter. Upon getting towed back to the boat ramp by a friendly boater, I recovered the boat and inspected the hull bottom and motor more thoroughly. Not a scratch ding or dent from hitting the log on the hull nor any sign of impact to the motor, prop spins freely in neutral and no wobble to it at all.

My gut says water in the fuel is the problem.

Any and all ideas here are quite welcome. Thanks

 

[lgusto]

First of all, I'm not a mechanic.....

To me it sounds like multiple problems.

1. The log doesn't seem to be an issue.
2. The batteries may be low if they haven't been used for three weeks. How long was the shakedown cruise before problems arose? Batteries are a mystery to me but I don't think volts equals starting power under load.
3. There may be an electrical connection issue or short if the starter engages in the up position but not down position. This includes the throttle switch that prevents starting in gear. Did you work the throttle between attempts?
4. Water in the fuel seems very likely. I have never seen water in my engine separator but must change my main filters about every 50 hours since ethanol became a problem.

Any or all of these possibilities may have colluded to spoil your day.

Please let us know what you find.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Larry:
We ran the boat for perhaps 3 hours tops between putt'n along exploring and being on plane.
I am trickle charging the batteries to elimenate this variable.

You could be onto something as the shift control was sticky going between neutral and forward, but not neutral to reverse. But it was also not consistantly sticking either.

Thanks for the input.

 

[finnaddict]

check your cables from the battery.I had a similar problem years ago where some days it would start right away and others you could hear the starter engage but not crank.After charging and changing the batteries I finally noticed a bad terminal connection.Just crimped on a new connector and was good to go.

 

[grady23]

MOST electrical problems on boats can be traced to a poor ground. Start at the battery and check the connections. Be sure they are clean and in good condition. Also inspect the cable ends for corrosion, the green stuff, and repair or replace as needed. Don't forget to check the safety lanyard. Somtiems in all the excitement it gets pulled.

 

[Tashmoo]

Not sure that this applies but it’s worth a look.

Grady has a practice of jumping the grounds from one battery to the other and then to the ground verses both to ground. Last year I wound up looping the battery two ground back to itself by accident. The result was that battery two would never charge, had erratic voltage and would turn over the engine but would not start it.

Check your ground cross over between the batteries.

 

[Strikezone]

I'm guessing that its an electrical connection problem also. Not sure how hitting the log figures into the equation.

Did your Racor have water in the bowl? If not I would check the engine filter to make sure it is tight and doesn't have a leak.

Sorry to hear about your problems Bob. Hope you get it solved quickly and inexpensively.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Guys, last night I put battery 1 on 2 amp trickle charge and it was full this afternoon. I checked the leads and yes Grady did wire the neutrals in parrallel and all the nuts are tight and I did not notice the ground being loose or wired back on itself. The motor started fine at the ramp before we headed out.

I have Yammaha's 10 micron filter and there is no glass on the bottom, but the engine one is clear and the water indicator is not as high I thought.

I think this is electrical. I put a multimeter on the batteries and they are fine. But I heard a buzzing sound coming from the front of the motor near the top what looks to be the fuel pump or injector pump? Either way, I was rechecking all the fuses on the motor and pulled the last 10 amp fuse and the buzzing stopped. the fuse was/is good and I put it back in the motor's fuse block and the buzzing did not return. The starter engaged, I heard it pop up to meet the flywheel, but the motor did not turn over. I am not a mechanic by any means and beyond simple things like changing oil or spark plugs or simple electrical fixes, I am out of the game.

I am taking her tomorrow to the nearby Yammaha dealer-service center and I am hoping and betting this is a warranty item. I will post what it is discovered.

 

[BobP]

The two problems are unrelated.

Motor should crank normally irrespective of fuel contamination.

Check battery voltage at starter connections while cranking, that's the voltage that matters while cranking. You can use alligator clip leads to a hand held digital multimeter.

As far as the fuel goes, the gas station now or in the past may have pumped water in to your tank, or you have a leaky (bypassing) O ring at fill cap. Forget about startron recombining separated water. Only Ezorb advertizes it can aborb equal amounts to how much ezorb used. I'm not endorsing Ezorb, just reading labels.

If the fuel is ethanol, takes a lot of water to phase separate. Not so with non-ethanol.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

Bob,
90% of my fuel consumption is e10. It is good to know about the water and phase seperation. She is kept under cover in a big metal pole barn shed and not much rain or snow ever touches the boat. I honestly misread it.

I think it is electrical. Either the cables or perhaps a starter relay are the problem.

 

[BobP]

It's easy for a DIYer or mechanic to diagnose starter circuit problems, not much too it and should find problem readily.

Phase seperated ethanol is a problem, what separates out is the alcohol and water together, not good, very corrosive.