Steering slow to engage

[Pipehunter]

2005 282 Sailfish
it takes about half a turn of the wheel for the steering to engage. It worsens over time. System was bled at least once last summer. Yard plans to bleed again and the drop it in the water and run it to see if that does it. No visible signs of leakage. Thoughts?

 

[Hookup1]

When you pull the fill cap at the helm what level do you have?

I keep a small bottle of steering fluid next to the helm. Every couple of days I top mine off. I have a tiny leak somewhere but I can't find it. If it gets too low I get slow to engage and the internal valves get "bumpy".

 

[Pipehunter]

When you pull the fill cap at the helm what level do you have?

I keep a small bottle of steering fluid next to the helm. Every couple of days I top mine off. I have a tiny leak somewhere but I can't find it. If it gets too low I get slow to engage and the internal valves get "bumpy".

Thanks. I will do that although I hope we can resolve the issue.

 

[Hookup1]

The other trick I use is to wipe all connections down, wrap with a paper towel and ty-wrap. After a few days take the paper towels off and check.

Typically what happens is you loose a little fluid, the air accumulates in the steering assembly and the reversing valves get confused (clunk) and hard steering. It doesn't take much - maybe a tablespoon.

 

[seasick]

If i top off the steering reservoir on my other boat, if the helms warms up as it can on a sunny day and with the helm cover on, it will leak fluid out of the vented fill cap. Read your manual, mine says to leave a quarter inch of space in the reservoir

 

[SkunkBoat]

I started having a similar issue the end of last season. Of course, I did nothing over the winter...
So anyways...maybe this will help you...or maybe you will help me....

I do not have any leak. If anything, it is overfilled from me thinking it must need fluid. When I remove the cap it leaks out.
Helm is only a couple years old. Fluid was replaced last year when I repaired the AP.

It is a very specific problem.
SOMETIMES, not always- When the motors are at Zero, dead ahead, if I SLOWLY turn the wheel it does not move the cylinder. I can very SLOWLY turn the wheel in one direction and the boat will not steer.
If I quickly move the wheel it works perfectly.
Often this can be made to happen by coming from hard over back to center and stopping there. If I turn back from center, never a problem. But if from stopped at center, slowly continuing the turn, it doesn' t move. Again, a little acceleration of the wheel and it works.

The problem only happens at center. Sometimes but not always.
It can happen coming from either direction.
If I pass thru center without stopping, it doesn't happen.

While I'm turning the wheel, there are never any noises associated with air in the system.
When the problem occurs it definitely feels like there is no pressure pumping to the cylinder.
When I turn it faster I feel the helm pump fluid.

I suspect it is the shuttle valve in the helm. or a spring/ball valve. maybe a speck of something in there
Just letting very low pressure fluid past a valve when at center..

I suppose it could be the cylinder letting some fluid pass at dead center due to a flat spot inside...maybe?
Maybe the AP? I suppose I could bypass that and test.

Of course the problem is that to do anything requires draining and removing the helm. To clean out the shuttle valve you need to replace the o-rings you destroy getting to it.
So at that point might as well have it serviced with all new o-rings.
I should have done that over the winter.


Seasick, I suspected the vented cap at one point. It never "vents" that I can tell. I was sure that was it. I put a fill nozzle hose rig in the filler and tested (so there was no cap on it). It seemed to fix it...
Then even with the cap back on it seemed fixed
..but later it was disproven. The problem had just gone away for a while because I was testing it...
I was going to buy a new vented cap just for shitzengiggles but they are sold in packs of 5 for $45.

 

[Halfhitch]

Skunk,
I had that same problem of the motor not moving when centered and steering slowly. It turned out to be corrosion/pitting in the steering cylinder barrel. When the piston O-ring was sitting on the pitted area, the fluid would bypass the piston when the flow was low. I took it down to Boat Steering here in Nokomis Florida and they gave me $100 for my old unit and I bought a reconditioned one. Problem disappeared. They told me it is one of the most common problems. Sorry for the 'off topic".

 

[SkunkBoat]

Skunk,
I had that same problem of the motor not moving when centered and steering slowly. It turned out to be corrosion/pitting in the steering cylinder barrel. When the piston O-ring was sitting on the pitted area, the fluid would bypass the piston when the flow was low. I took it down to Boat Steering here in Nokomis Florida and they gave me $100 for my old unit and I bought a reconditioned one. Problem disappeared. They told me it is one of the most common problems. Sorry for the 'off topic".

NOT OF TOPIC AT ALL!.....THANKS!.
interesting...that was one of the things I thought it could be. The cylinder is the oldest part of the system. Probably original. But doesn't leak and has no pitting on rods.
That be about right cuz I just ordered a seal kit for it just for shitzngiggles since I might be draining the system. That of course would be useless to fix the problem. That is always how it works...I spend money and time fixing something and then buy a new one.... cancelling seal kit looking into new/refurb cylinder.....

 

[Fishermanbb]

This may not apply, but one thing that is critical when you bleed your system is to also bleed your AP if you have one. You must bleed the system normally and then immediately use the AP to turn the motors full over several times. Otherwise you can get air trapped in the AP lines and you’ll end up back at square one.

 

[Halfhitch]

This may not apply, but one thing that is critical when you bleed your system is to also bleed your AP if you have one. You must bleed the system normally and then immediately use the AP to turn the motors full over several times. Otherwise you can get air trapped in the AP lines and you’ll end up back at square one.

Good point.

Another thing I learned about the problem of the vent cap on the helm pump weeping fluid on a hot day is that, that is a symptom of air in the system. The tiny air bubbles in the lines will migrate and accumulate at the high points in the line. Then, when the fluid warms up, the air in the lines expand much more than the fluid, which builds pressure and forces fluid out the vent. This same thing happens to air trapped in the helm.

I read a bulletin in some SeaStar maintenance tips that while bleeding the system manually, you must turn the wheel at the rate of, "no slower than two seconds per revolution," in order to make sure the air bubbles are carried through the lines faster than they can migrate up toward the high spots.

 

[Fishtales]

I found that you have to work the wheel back and forth to the stops to get all the air out. Do this while unpowered. If you drive into the stops while the hydraulic power assist is engaged, you can blow a fuse from time to time. It's a raised helm so you should be able to bleed at the steering wheel fill.

 

[SkunkBoat]

I hope Pipehunter the OP made some progress.

I got a new HC5345-3 cylinder from the West Marine on Sunday for 5x points back.
Installed today and working great. Thank you Halfhitch for giving me the push toward the cylinder.
I was about to replace the end seals which would have been a colossal waste of time and money.