Survey for 2003 330 Express

[dgjones]

Hello all, I put a deposit on a 2003 330 Express with 2008 250 HP Yamahas (1750 hrs) and am scheduling a mechanical inspection by local Yamaha dealer and a separate survey of the hull. The surveyor has prepared me for bad news based on previous experience, including wet transom, water damage around stress cracks, and corrosion of the exhaust ports on the Yamahas. The surveyor is not bullish on the GW manufacturing process.

A local mariner told me the previous owner -- for 7 years -- performed no preventive maintenance on the engines and said the starboard engine has transmission (lower unit) issues. The local mariner said the boat is slow and reportedly cruises at 22 knots.

The engines are one issue that hopefully can be repaired, but I'm concerned more with a compromised hull based on previous comments in related posts. Naturally, I'm concerned with the warnings from surveyor and flags from neighboring slip holder, but the issues appear to be consistent with many GW owners based on the many posts on this site.

Please let me know what a 330 Express with 250 Yamahas should cruise at, also WOT speed, and whether or not a 330 is a good choice of boat, notwithstanding owner negligence. All feedback and opinions are appreciated.

Thank you, Dennis

 

[kirk a]

The boat model is fantastic. at close to 20 years old it does not matter how great the boat was when new as owner maintenance plays a huge role.
The fact they still make the model 20 years later speaks volumes.

I don’t have 250’s on mine but from memory the numbers are similar to mine with 225’s. Cruise 4800 at 22-24 mph burning 1 to 1.1 per mile.

 

[usmm1234]

Hello all, I put a deposit on a 2003 330 Express with 2008 250 HP Yamahas (1750 hrs) and am scheduling a mechanical inspection by local Yamaha dealer and a separate survey of the hull. The surveyor has prepared me for bad news based on previous experience, including wet transom, water damage around stress cracks, and corrosion of the exhaust ports on the Yamahas. The surveyor is not bullish on the GW manufacturing process.

A local mariner told me the previous owner -- for 7 years -- performed no preventive maintenance on the engines and said the starboard engine has transmission (lower unit) issues. The local mariner said the boat is slow and reportedly cruises at 22 knots.

The engines are one issue that hopefully can be repaired, but I'm concerned more with a compromised hull based on previous comments in related posts. Naturally, I'm concerned with the warnings from surveyor and flags from neighboring slip holder, but the issues appear to be consistent with many GW owners based on the many posts on this site.

Please let me know what a 330 Express with 250 Yamahas should cruise at, also WOT speed, and whether or not a 330 is a good choice of boat, notwithstanding owner negligence. All feedback and opinions are appreciated.

Thank you, Dennis

I own a 2002 Grady 330 Express. Ive owned it for 3 years. Everyone goes crazy over moisture readings. I’m a past surveyor. Every older boat has moisture. The question is. Can this moisture create a problem for me. It’s around 97 or 98 that Grady switched to Greenwood Plywood. This stuff is fantastic. Fountain uses it in their fastest offshore boats. It’s pretty impervious to rot. My transom is like a rock. My boat stays in the water year round.
the balsa core hull side were very susceptible to water intrusion. My boats original owner pulled the hull side vent and loaded caulking in there. I have a small area around those vents that show moisture. My boat is fine structurally. We have been in some real blows and 6 ft seas . No flexing, crazing or cracks.
Grady is a 30 year customer of mine. The6 have told me many time. They only dropped Greenwood for Marketing reasons. They have not had a catastrophic failure with Greenwood.

 

[Fishtales]

The problem with the greenwood is that the glass delaminates when the wood gets wet. Then a jelly like substance forms due to the water, wood and glass. The wood may be solid, but there may not be adhesion. It really comes down to how the boat was maintained and addressed if issues were detected. The aluminum strip and glass area below can tell a lot. Look for bulging, cap corrosion, water intrusion, caulking fails etc. F250s are ok on the boat. Sure 300s and 350s may be better, but the 350s have their own history of issues. A good surveyor should provide you a lot of info to help in the decision making process. Use the data provided to negotiate. If you need transom work expect 5-10K depending upon what is found.

 

[loubeer]

I have a 2003 330 and recently repowered (90 hours) with 4.2L Yamaha 250's - 15 3/4 - 15 Props. 4500 RPM - 31 MPH - 1.1 MPG. Top speed - 5500 RPM - 37 MPH - 0.7 MPG. This with 2 people, 95 gallons of fuel, full water tank. Not a speed demon by today's standards but meets my needs for overnighters at the west coast Islands and coastal/offshore fishing.

This boat meets my needs and has been a dream for me; however, I agree with above - maintenance is key. Ask for maintenance records and take a quick look at bang plate and drain tubes on the transom - they should have been replaced long ago. A conscientious and responsible owner will have maintenance records.

 

[dgjones]

I own a 2002 Grady 330 Express. Ive owned it for 3 years. Everyone goes crazy over moisture readings. I’m a past surveyor. Every older boat has moisture. The question is. Can this moisture create a problem for me. It’s around 97 or 98 that Grady switched to Greenwood Plywood. This stuff is fantastic. Fountain uses it in their fastest offshore boats. It’s pretty impervious to rot. My transom is like a rock. My boat stays in the water year round.
the balsa core hull side were very susceptible to water intrusion. My boats original owner pulled the hull side vent and loaded caulking in there. I have a small area around those vents that show moisture. My boat is fine structurally. We have been in some real blows and 6 ft seas . No flexing, crazing or cracks.
Grady is a 30 year customer of mine. The6 have told me many time. They only dropped Greenwood for Marketing reasons. They have not had a catastrophic failure with Greenwood.

Thank you for your perspective and reply. So in your opinion, a wet transom -- possibly due to water intrusion at the engine mounts -- is not a key issue with Greenwood Plywood? And if Greenwood Plywood is strong and resistant to rot, why are some readers so devastated when moisture is found near the vent openings in the aft sections of the boat?

 

[dgjones]

I have a 2003 330 and recently repowered (90 hours) with 4.2L Yamaha 250's - 15 3/4 - 15 Props. 4500 RPM - 31 MPH - 1.1 MPG. Top speed - 5500 RPM - 37 MPH - 0.7 MPG. This with 2 people, 95 gallons of fuel, full water tank. Not a speed demon by today's standards but meets my needs for overnighters at the west coast Islands and coastal/offshore fishing.

This boat meets my needs and has been a dream for me; however, I agree with above - maintenance is key. Ask for maintenance records and take a quick look at bang plate and drain tubes on the transom - they should have been replaced long ago. A conscientious and responsible owner will have maintenance records.

Thank you for your reply. This 330 Express has 4-blade props on the Yamaha 250's. Is that the norm or should the boat have 3-blade props?

 

[dgjones]

I have a 2003 330 and recently repowered (90 hours) with 4.2L Yamaha 250's - 15 3/4 - 15 Props. 4500 RPM - 31 MPH - 1.1 MPG. Top speed - 5500 RPM - 37 MPH - 0.7 MPG. This with 2 people, 95 gallons of fuel, full water tank. Not a speed demon by today's standards but meets my needs for overnighters at the west coast Islands and coastal/offshore fishing.

This boat meets my needs and has been a dream for me; however, I agree with above - maintenance is key. Ask for maintenance records and take a quick look at bang plate and drain tubes on the transom - they should have been replaced long ago. A conscientious and responsible owner will have maintenance records.

Thank you for your reply. Can you explain the bang plate? I never heard that term before.

 

[Fishermanbb]

The bang plate is the aluminum cap on the top of the transom between the engines and the fiberglass. That boat will cruise at 30 MPH at 4500 RPM all day long in real world conditions. Expect 1.1-1.2 MPG. That is a properly running boat with a clean bottom and the correct (stock)
props.

 

[SkunkBoat]

20 year old boat will have moisture. It will have gelcoat cracks.
The boat is nowhere near the end of its life. Will someone catch the hot potato and have to do transom work? Maybe its you ,maybe its the next owner.
That risk is in the price

Assuming you are going to use a 330 for offshore, the motors are due to be replaced.
Thats in the price.

This is a great opportunity to repower with 300s( Yamaha or Suzuki) You will get better fuel economy and cruise speed and peace of mind 100 miles offshore.
With new motors and electronics and canvas that boat will be just as nice as a new one for A LOT LESS MONEY.(hundreds of thousand$ less)
If you are going to lolligag around the bay, they have life and value and are worth repairing (especially now because its hard to get motors).

Are the fuel tanks original? put that in the price....
Generator? just about done? put that in the price.

 

[loubeer]

Thank you for your reply. This 330 Express has 4-blade props on the Yamaha 250's. Is that the norm or should the boat have 3-blade props?

I never looked into the 4 blades - I really can't answer if they're a better choice.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Thank you for your perspective and reply. So in your opinion, a wet transom -- possibly due to water intrusion at the engine mounts -- is not a key issue with Greenwood Plywood? And if Greenwood Plywood is strong and resistant to rot, why are some readers so devastated when moisture is found near the vent openings in the aft sections of the boat?

Transom and stringers are greenwood.
the hull sides above the waterline are cored with balsa
The hull below waterline is solid glass

 

[seasick]

Hello all, I put a deposit on a 2003 330 Express with 2008 250 HP Yamahas (1750 hrs) and am scheduling a mechanical inspection by local Yamaha dealer and a separate survey of the hull. The surveyor has prepared me for bad news based on previous experience, including wet transom, water damage around stress cracks, and corrosion of the exhaust ports on the Yamahas. The surveyor is not bullish on the GW manufacturing process.

A local mariner told me the previous owner -- for 7 years -- performed no preventive maintenance on the engines and said the starboard engine has transmission (lower unit) issues. The local mariner said the boat is slow and reportedly cruises at 22 knots.

The engines are one issue that hopefully can be repaired, but I'm concerned more with a compromised hull based on previous comments in related posts. Naturally, I'm concerned with the warnings from surveyor and flags from neighboring slip holder, but the issues appear to be consistent with many GW owners based on the many posts on this site.

Please let me know what a 330 Express with 250 Yamahas should cruise at, also WOT speed, and whether or not a 330 is a good choice of boat, notwithstanding owner negligence. All feedback and opinions are appreciated.

Thank you, Dennis

If the previous owner had no maintenance done for 7 years ( and I doubt that since at this point the batteries would be crap and the oil would look like liquid tar) that would be a very bad piece of info. I have always said that if a boat looks like it wasn't maintained. the mechanicals probably weren't maintained either. If the reverse is true then a boat that didn't have engine maintenance done should also look pretty bad ( mold, dirt, heavy oxidation, hull growth, foggy.
vinyl and on and on). You can judge the overall appearance.
With respect to the surveyor, tell him what you were told and that you don't know if the stories are true and let the surveyor do his or her job. I have no doubt that a survey will find issues. Ask the surveyor what an estimate might be to fix each issue. If boating is new, keep in mind that marine material and parts as well as labor is much more expensive than you might think
Remember that a surveyor probably will not do a detailed motor inspection and you need to have one done. If the boat is at a marina, a surveyor can work with a shop mechanic to do engine tests at your expense of course.
Also note that many parts are in short supply these days and items like a replacement lower unit, especially counter rotating may be a challenge to find.

Good luck with your survey

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Imo the biggest thing depends on the purchase price and whether you’re up for a challenge or not in that it sounds like a bit of maintenance will be needed as the boat currently sits. If the engines have 1,750 hours on them and have truly not had any maintenance for 7 years then that’s a pretty big roll of the dice, on top of that if they potentially have the dry exhaust corrosion issue then it could make for an even bigger roll of the dice or make it even more of a challenge. Fixing the dry exhaust corrosion issue is around a minimum typically of $2k per engine and it only goes up from there. If there’s more serious issues or the corrosion has spread to the power head or other parts of the motor then you could be looking at potentially having to replace both outboards. If you get the boat for a decent price with those considerations in mind, then its a bit of a softer blow. But if you’re paying top dollar for something and then immediately after purchasing you have to drop $50k on two new motors then I wouldn‘t envy your bank account afterward. Almost 2k hours on outboards, especially ones that haven’t been taken care of or have possibly been neglected, is a fair amount and you could be looking at replacement of those as well in the near future. If you’re getting a killer deal but have to put some time and money into it and are up for a project then have at it. If you’re going to sink more money into the boat then what it’s worth and take all summer to do so… well then I’d personally look elsewhere.

 

[usmm1234]

Transom and stringers are greenwood.
the hull sides above the waterline are cored with balsa
The hull below waterline is solid glass

Dampness is going to be somewhat presenot in a 20 year old boat. My 1979 33 Bertram showed water everywherre in it’s solid glass hull. I sand blasted it and ran heat lamps on it for years. I put 7 coats of Interprotect on it. It still showed dampness! I ran the hell out of it. And sold it for top dollar. It’s still running strong!
th balsa cored sides can be serious if is really spread throughout the side panels. You can vacuume them and pump them with resin, or peel them and refoam and glass them. I know of two boat to do that. Then you need to paint the hull.

 

[everwhom]

When I bought my 2003 330 hull 7 years ago, I had a SAMS certified surveyor tap every inch of the hull. Fortunately it was all great, and the boat has performed flawlessly since I've owned it. I regularly take it 100 miles from shore. My understanding is that moisture meters are pretty inconclusive, but tapping will reveal delamination. My hull has no stress cracks and if any ever appeared, I'd be concerned.

I repowered the boat with Yamaha 4.2L F250's with Mercury Mirage 15" props. My best cruise is 29mph at 4300 RPM, 1.1mpg and top speed is 39mph at 5400 RPM. I usually run pretty heavy.

In addition to repowering, I replaced all the electronics and fuel lines, but did not replace the tanks (yet). The original FP genset finally bit the dust last year and I replaced with a small inverter system as I never used the genny much anyways.

Remaining original items include: windlass, microwave, induction cooktop (never actually tried it tho), and air conditioning (rarely used).

 

[seasick]

When I bought my 2003 330 hull 7 years ago, I had a SAMS certified surveyor tap every inch of the hull. Fortunately it was all great, and the boat has performed flawlessly since I've owned it. I regularly take it 100 miles from shore. My understanding is that moisture meters are pretty inconclusive, but tapping will reveal delamination. My hull has no stress cracks and if any ever appeared, I'd be concerned.

I repowered the boat with Yamaha 4.2L F250's with Mercury Mirage 15" props. My best cruise is 29mph at 4300 RPM, 1.1mpg and top speed is 39mph at 5400 RPM. I usually run pretty heavy.

In addition to repowering, I replaced all the electronics and fuel lines, but did not replace the tanks (yet). The original FP genset finally bit the dust last year and I replaced with a small inverter system as I never used the genny much anyways.

Remaining original items include: windlass, microwave, induction cooktop (never actually tried it tho), and air conditioning (rarely used).

Moisture readings are only as good as the surveyor's skills. In addition, by themselves they don't give the whole story. Ad you mentioned, delamination depending on where it is will read fine on a moisture meter. So will a hollow core.
Tapping is best for detecting voids like delams but is not intended to detect moisture.

 

[Fishtales]

Agree with all here. The boat will have some issues, all 20 year old boats will have some things to address. The surveyors job is to identify any big cost sinks - wear, structural and near term things to consider and watch. Once you get the survey, you will have more info to make your decision.

 

[Fishtales]

The biggest concern I have is "no maintenance". I'd run. If people don't take care of boats, they can be ticking timebombs. Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere.

 

[NassauGW]

Transom and stringers are greenwood.
the hull sides above the waterline are cored with balsa
The hull below waterline is solid glass

Is this really true? Hull sides below the waterline (chine area) are solid glass not balsa?