Tips on how a Grady handles?

[RussGW270]

Well, since I have no pride to bruise.. well, not a lot.. lol.. figured to get some tips. Please remember, while it sounds like I do not know my back end from a hole in the wall..heh.. I do... I have been boating for decades, just not the past few years and never with a boat like a Grady so....I would rather look stupid than to BE stupid...

1 - Docking overnight - I have tied off many times... but never slept on the boat while tied up. I have seen photos of people that "did it wrong" and ended up submerged. What is the secret to typing up smartly?

2 - I generally go forward when typing up... my mind would rather bump the keep than to break an engine, but.. tips? Preference?

3 - Driven many a single engine... some really big ones, like a 40ft inboard Navy boat.. but never a twin. My mind does not work the same right now, but I can learn. Any tips, secrets? I picture in my mind that a quick port forward starboard reverse can turn me faster than trying to do a 3-point both forward and turn the wheel, but can also be a pain to get used to and overdo it. Tips?

I know, a lot of questions....this is why we are going out next weekend, specifically. I need time with this boat under my feet. I wish to hell there was a Grady person going out with me.. heh

Okay, going to do some reading and research and then go wash the boat.

Thanks for everything guys. I will do some live Facebook when we get out there, so you can all laugh.. heh. I will post a link here. May use Youtube, not sure.

I need a GreatGrady flag

R

 

[seasick]

The secret is that you rarely if ever need to do something "quick". Bumping is a critical part of slow speed maneuvering. Boats don't turn like cars of course and
learning how a specific boat will rotate with thrust is important to learn.

A while back, I watched a video of an instructor giving a lesson to a new captain with a fairly big pleasure craft. In the video he instructed only and did touch any controls. The boat was backed out of a slip turned around in the space between two rows of slips, taxied towards the main marina waterway, turned onto that water way and out to eh marine exit. The vessel was then turned around (360) driven back to the row of slips, turned into that waterway, rotated 90 degrees between the slip rows and then steered into the slip and docked. For all these maneuvers, THE WHEEL WAS NEVER TOUCHED! All turns accomplished by use of throttles and gear shifts
It was a beautiful thing to see.

As to docking and tying off, there are tons of articles and videos on that topic. When tying to a fixed dock as opposed to a floating dock, a lot more attention has to be paid to line placement and line length. You need to account for normal and not so normal tidal swings. Too tight lines can result in a gunnel being dragged under water.

 

[SkunkBoat]

so you never had twins before.

Single binnacles usually have a button in the grip to push in while you shift. Older ones did not have a detent at "idle in gear".

Dual binnacles don't have a button in the grip. You push forward you will feel a detent at the idle in F or idle in R. you push again and throttle up.

I had (have ) a hard time remembering that its 2 clicks back to Out of Gear (N). This really comes into play when you are docking with twins in opposite gears.

Now I just got "drive by wire" and shifting is so smooth and motors so quiet that I'm going to really have to pay attention to where the levers are...


Also, I find twin inboards control a boat with just Fwd/Rev gear shifts and zero rudder very well. Twin outboards not so much....

 

[Sparkdog118]

Driving Twins is like driving a zero turn lawn mower with a few differences . One thing to remember is to leave the wheel at midship. Reverse has less torque than forward, so when you are turning in your own length, little bit more reverse is applied than forward. Would be a good idea to practice in an open area to get the feel of your particular boat’s reaction.

 

[drbatts]

Docking overnight is no different if you are on the boat or not, same rules apply. Remember spring lines are your friend. I always back in as it is much easier to load from the stern. When docking with twin engines, don't ever touch he wheel, it will just mess you up. Look a the handles on your binnacle, when using the engines to steer, the boat will go in the direction of the binnacle. i.e. your starboard handle is pointing toward the port direction, when you put that engine in gear the bow will go in that direction. While turning he boat in reverse, you will always need more power/throttle in the reversing engine. Practice, practice practice. The tide, wind and currents will always be different. There will be days when its blowing and you stick the docking perfectly, others when its calm and you have pull out and retry.

 

[seasick]

so you never had twins before.

Single binnacles usually have a button in the grip to push in while you shift. Older ones did not have a detent at "idle in gear".

Dual binnacles don't have a button in the grip. You push forward you will feel a detent at the idle in F or idle in R. you push again and throttle up.

I had (have ) a hard time remembering that its 2 clicks back to Out of Gear (N). This really comes into play when you are docking with twins in opposite gears.

Now I just got "drive by wire" and shifting is so smooth and motors so quiet that I'm going to really have to pay attention to where the levers are...


Also, I find twin inboards control a boat with just Fwd/Rev gear shifts and zero rudder very well. Twin outboards not so much....

By saying twin inboards, are you referring to real inboards or to I/Os. Inboards don't steer very well in reverse.

 

[SkunkBoat]

By saying twin inboards, are you referring to real inboards or to I/Os. Inboards don't steer very well in reverse.

Straight inboard TWINS do the "no hands on the wheel" thing better than outboards (good thing because the wheel does almost nothing in reverse)
props are down deep and spread apart.
Also, "no hands on throttle". they have a separate binnacle just for gears so yuo can bump in and out easily at idle speed.
Honestly I wish the outboards had that.

I find with my 265 where I dock in a crazy current, I often have to use the wheel with both in reverse to pull me around.

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

I don't have twins ,but I have kept my boat in a slip at numerous places with a ride. You need to know how low and high the tide is for your area. I was, for instance , kind of surprised at the tide height in Hilton Head Islands main marina . I did not stay there over night but docked there near low tide.

If the marina only has pilings and no floating dock , you need to account for lowest tide in how much line you let out. The trick is you need enough line for low tide and not too much for high tide. Thats where spring lines come into play. You want the bow and stern lines to give you movement for the vertical motion of the boat with tide changes and the spring lines for the forward and aft drift . I set the spring lines so that it limits the most forward movement of the boat to prevent it from hitting the dock. I don't typically back into a slip. If you do use the spring lines to limit aft movement into the dock/seawall or what ever.

I was in St. Joseph Peninsula State park a few years back and this guy in pontoon boat clearly tide his boat up at high tide. He had that thing tied too short. Tide goes out and the boat wants to move aft but can't . So at one point in the tide cycle the front of the toons get hung up on the dock. Then tide falls and the stern is down and bow is hung up. Then tide changes which will tend to push the boat forward. His boat is stuck and when we roll in to tie up his port side is now submerged at the stern. Water is up to the cowling and the dock is being damaged as the toons are forced up under the planks pushing them up off the joist/stringers. I normally don't touch other people's stuff, but my brother and brother in law and I saw a lot of damage could happen as the tide was just coming in. We untied the guys boat , got it unhung from the dock and got it floating normal. We then tied it back to normal as with the proper amount of line. Later that day I was cleaning my boat and the guy came down to his boat. I told what had happened and how he almost had a serious boat repair as his motor was in a position to be submerged. He was gracious and thanked me. Then he said this was his first time in saltwater. I then asked him if he wanted help in understanding tides and tying up a boat. He said sure. So, I taught him how to do it.

 

[RussGW270]

Who here has a link to some solid spring lines I can get to handle this boat (Islander 270)?

I do not think I have any. I am sure I can find some, but not all things are made equally, so I am sure you all have preferences.

Also, I think having about a 100ft 1/2 3-braid twisted nylon should be fine for spare, no?

I find a LOT of 3/8", but that may be too light. Not looking to fold in a gale force wind heh.. but in for a dime..

Let me rephrase. I understand tying the boat up... but I need/want quality line that has good stretch in it as well as strength. When someone says "spring lines" I am thinking a rope that has more stretch to it.

I was a Machinist Mate in the Navy.. left ropes to the Deckhands albeit, I understand the concept of the cross-ties for drift, it is the tides that worries me

If only you buggers lived in Texas

R

 

[wspitler]

Who here has a link to some solid spring lines I can get to handle this boat (Islander 270)?

I do not think I have any. I am sure I can find some, but not all things are made equally, so I am sure you all have preferences.

Also, I think having about a 100ft 1/2 3-braid twisted nylon should be fine for spare, no?

I find a LOT of 3/8", but that may be too light. Not looking to fold in a gale force wind heh.. but in for a dime..

Let me rephrase. I understand tying the boat up... but I need/want quality line that has good stretch in it as well as strength. When someone says "spring lines" I am thinking a rope that has more stretch to it.

I was a Machinist Mate in the Navy.. left ropes to the Deckhands albeit, I understand the concept of the cross-ties for drift, it is the tides that worries me

If only you buggers lived in Texas

R

A "spring line" has nothing to do with the type of line, but all to do with placement of the line. It typically is longer "scope" allowing more tide range and runs fore and aft keeping the boat from moving fore and aft. For most smaller boats (< 30') 3/8 nylon is fine for temporary mooring.

 

[RussGW270]

Aaahhh okay, so terminology is the key. Got it. I was aware of the process, just never knew it had a name lol. Thanks!

So if I use 3/8, it is not going to snap in normal weather? I have 1/2 onboard, but sure would like a spare 200ft just in case and seems I have to order that but 3/8 is common.

Russ

 

[wspitler]

Aaahhh okay, so terminology is the key. Got it. I was aware of the process, just never knew it had a name lol. Thanks!

So if I use 3/8, it is not going to snap in normal weather? I have 1/2 onboard, but sure would like a spare 200ft just in case and seems I have to order that but 3/8 is common.

Russ

3/8 should be fine a it has over 3,000 lb tensile strength, a little more for double braid I think. You should only need two spring lines say 30' each. I would buy 60-75 feet, cut it in half and end splice one end and eye splice the other. For bow and stern lines you could also use 3/8 for non-permanent mooring. 3/8 fits better on most small boat cleats anyway and with an eye in one end and end splice on the other they can be used in many different situations.

 

[magicalbill]

Russ:

Most of your questions posted on here I have left to the knowledgeable pros.

Your query concerning boat handling is one that I can help with. It's lengthy, I know, but indulge me and read on:

No amount of instructional videos or online advice is going to get you to the finish line on this. The only way you kick the field goal and win this game is experience. There are too many variables that will confound you every time you dock..Wind, current, prop thrust, to name a few. Reading about them and watching YouTube doesn't help.

You MUST get to the point during close-quarter twin engine maneuvering where your actions become intuitive. In other words, you can't be thinking, "wait..which one does which?" Once you cross that threshold, it gets waay easier.

How do you get to that threshold? The steps are outlined below.

1.) Go out alone, or with one other friend. Find an empty dock with no spectators or armchair captains calling out moves as you try to come in. Distraction are bad, and some guy on the finger pier with good intentions instructing you will only raise your blood pressure.

2.) Leave the steering wheel centered and don't touch it no matter how big the temptation; If you factor in turning the wheel along with twin engine throttle application, one action will undo the other and screw it up. If you must turn the wheel, treat it like a single engine boat and don't oppose the throttles. Both in forward, both in reverse.

3.) Pick a calm day and a slack tide, if applicable. You do not want the Forces Of Nature conspiring against you during your early stages of unfamiliarity with the boat. You want to give yourself every chance to win the game and you'll get a lot further learning what the boat does organically with no wind or current. Yes, I know those days are few & far between, but they do happen. A long drive? Look at the forecast a couple days out, wait for light winds, and get a Holiday Inn Express the night before nearby so you can get an early start. It's worth it. If your first day docking is accompanied by 15kt winds, it will NOT be a positive experience for you or your gelcoat.

4) Do it 50 times. When you feel like your starting to have a handle on it, do it another 50. If you only go in-and-out 4 or 5 times, you won't have a real grip on it. Leave the fishing rods at home and dedicate a whole day to working on this. Remember, I said you need to get to a point where you intuitively know how to react and that takes time. It took Eric Clapton years to get where he is on guitar.

5.) Trim your engines up some. Yes, I said UP. You want to direct the prop thrust to shoot below your transom "V" Line where the drain plug is. Otherwise, the prop wash will boil around the transom area, creating unnecessary turbulence and limiting the effectiveness of engine thrust.

6.) I am not going to go into what engine does what here. This is best learned hands-on at the aforementioned EMPTY dock with no people. I will say that once you start learning how to do it, you will encounter a windy situation sooner rather than later. To counteract the wind, rev up your engines while performing the same maneuvers you've already learned. I mean it; rev them to 2-3 grand if you have to; this is a big help compensating for a beam wind that keeps you from getting the boat docked when your shifting in-and-out at regular rev's. Revving the Yamaha's up increases maneuverability in windy situations. This is why outboards have a BIG advantage over inboards in that you control the shifting and RPM's with ONE throttle stick. Again, practice endlessly.

Once you get it, and get over that hill, you'll know it. You'll feel like a Rock Star and not need a hit record.

Good Luck.

 

[glacierbaze]

Russ, you were asking about what size slip to rent a few days ago. Did you get one, what marina? Try to pick one with floating docks, to take the element of tide out of the equation. Pick one with a sheltered basin, not on a tidal canal, or the ICW, to take current out of the equation. Unless the marina has a rule, such as stern in, you can always pull straight in, instead of backing in.
Come to a dead stop, either in front of your slip, or one on the same row, and see which way you drift, either by current or wind. Approach your slip from the direction that your drift has taken you, that is, against the wind or current. That slows everything down. If the drift is too strong to pull/back straight in, you just have to get the bow, or the stern a few feet past that first piling, then use it as a pivot point to power the boat around it and into the slip. Again, always working into the current.
SLOW is the key. And lots of fenders. The first rule of docking any size vessel is, "never approach anything faster than you are willing to hit it".
If you get it trouble, it is usually better to go to neutral, and see what is happening, than to go for power, and compound the damage.
If you want to be a YouTube star, go big or go home, but try not to top these guys.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Aaahhh okay, so terminology is the key. Got it. I was aware of the process, just never knew it had a name lol. Thanks!

Snipes didn't do many Sea & Anchor details

 

[RussGW270]

Snipes didn't do many Sea & Anchor details

Lol! Amen... I did a lot of mess tours... heh.. but mostly just the unreps. Cracks me up when I watch a show loading an unrep and they are doing it wrong.. I am like, "you idiots.. stagger.. you're going to hurt your backs doing it that way! lol

R

 

[magicalbill]

Here it is Russ.

 

[RussGW270]

Excellent. This will be my reading out in the shop after the scout meeting tonight

We may not get to go. Friend 1 will probably drop out since going out past land.

Friend 2 may drop out since the wife refuses to go out more than 10-15 miles.

May just ask someone to help me launch at the ramp. If they drop out, hell...I’ll find a random person on the docks lol. We will see.

R

 

[RussGW270]

Well, a couple things @magicalbill , Thank you for the advice, again

I remember reading it now and read it again, while I wait for this meetingto start.

What you describe is how I do the engines. I keep the engines straight and I adjust throttles. It is pretty instinctive to anyone that has time in a boat or backs a trailer. I just have to deal with a single engine every so often till the idle stops getting warm, not a big deal.

Another thing is, I am not retired yet lol...can’t go out for an entire day doing nothing but touch-n-gos in a slip since I have no slips and have to drive 3-4 hours.

lol

more later, meeting started but Practice is the key, as you said

Russ

 

[magicalbill]

Ah yes, the Real World:

I hadn't factored in your job and responsibilities; I was thinking of the optimum scenario for you to break in to it.

When your idle temp is good and you can utilize both Yams, yes center them and do your maneuvering with the throttle levers. Both handles point inward toward each other. Whichever throttle you put into forward gear, the way the handle is pointing is the way the bow will go on just that one engine. (EX: Starboard engine only in fwd gear, the bow turns to port, or the way the stbd handle is pointing. Same thing in reverse. Stbd handle in reverse, the stern backs to port, the same way the stbd handle is pointing.) Increasing the rpm's while doing this will speed up the process.


Speaking of Real World, what I described above is noticeable in calm water with no current. This, as you know, rarely happens. That's where revving up the engines while carrying out the maneuvers helps to compensate for Mama Nature.

glacierbaze had some good points that I should've mentioned. Heading down the fairway, toward your intended slip, stop momentum when you are abreast of your slip and ascertain the wind and/or current.

Then, let's say the slip is on your port side. Turn around and face aft, and work the throttles with your LEFT hand. Don't look forward again unless it's tight and your bow pulpit could catch on something during your spin. Port engine in fwd, stbd engine in reverse. You will notice your Grady will rotate clockwise. Leave the port engine in gear at 700 RPM or whatever it idles at. Rev up your stbd engine and this will control the speed of your turn. When the boat is in the midst of it's clockwise rotation, put BOTH engines in neutral and let the inertia take over. The boat will continue to rotate for a few more feet. Pop BOTH engines in reverse for a second or two when your aligned with your slip to start your backward run. Then, remember the handle positioning we talked about in the above paragraph and guide the boat alongside the finger pier with that in mind. At this point, your throttle adjustments will be quick because of close quarter maneuvering...in-and-out bursts of throttle..fwd & reverse.

Now it gets hard to call the moves on a keyboard. This is where repeated attempts come into play. You must practice over and over to start to feel how the boat reacts to throttle, inertia and prop thrust. And then there's wind messing with you. The procedure I outlined above is with minimal or no wind. The moves I spoke of have to be exaggerated fighting wind. Also, to quote glacierbaze, don't be afraid to pivot the boat around a piling if that helps the cause.

I find it easier...and this is personal.. to back into the wind or current. When I execute the spin in front of the slip, I want the current/wind to be on my stern so I back into it as I'm spinning. It acts as a natural brake and it makes the maneuvers more predictable to execute. if the wind is on the nose and I start to spin the boat, it can/will push you past your intended target sometimes. Again, be aware of the Forces That Be and make them work for you.