Tips on Using Salt Away

[Jonah]

Hi Everyone,

Just bought some Salt Away, and thought I'd ask for tips before I use it on my outboard cooling system. I'm wondering:

1. The instructions say to 'fill up' the reservoir on the hose attachment, which is about 5oz. But the instructions also say to run salt away through the cooling system for only about 30 seconds. Do I then throw out the remaining solution in the reservoir? Seems quite a waste.

2. The instructions say to leave the solution in the cooling system, but I (think I) read on this forum that I should flush it out with freshwater. Any reason for that?

 

[Doc Stressor]

It contains a corrosion inhibitor so you want to let it dry on the metal surfaces rather than flushing with water.

I generally flush with water for a few minutes to get rid of any mud and crud, let the system drain, and then do the 30 sec Saltaway treatment.

I dump the stuff remaining in the reservoir into a hand sprayer that I use to rinse off my trailer brakes. It needs to be diluted further for that purpose.

 

[Jonah]

Thanks Doc,

Anyone else have this question? Unlike Doc, I don't have a trailer and so can't think of a great way to use the excess/wasted Salt Away each time. Besides, if I'm going to flush my outboard cooling system regularly, I will go through this stuff quickly if I have to use a full 5oz every time, even though only an ounce or so goes to use in the cooling system.

Does anyone use less than the full 5oz?

 

[HMBJack]

My inputs: Flush all you want with water or whatever chemical you like but Yamaha recommends you pull the T-Stats and inspect the T-Stat bores every 100 hours.

This will help prevent corrosion in the bore which is part of the block.
If the bore gets compromised, you lose the block and therefore lose the engine.
I flush all the time but still see accumulated salt (and the beginnings of corrosion) in my T-stat bores.

So, I recommend you get your socket set out, pull your T-stats and see what you have going on in there.
If you're like most, your T-stats haven't been pulled in several hundred hours of use. Just sayin...

Doing this simple procedure is far more beneficial than using any chemical in your flushing.
Note: your T-stats remain closed during any flush procedure - engine on or off. You don't reach 158 degrees at idle with engine on so your T-stats are locked shut.

 

[seasick]

My inputs: Flush all you want with water or whatever chemical you like but Yamaha recommends you pull the T-Stats and inspect the T-Stat bores every 100 hours.

This will help prevent corrosion in the bore which is part of the block.
If the bore gets compromised, you lose the block and therefore lose the engine.
I flush all the time but still see accumulated salt (and the beginnings of corrosion) in my T-stat bores.

So, I recommend you get your socket set out, pull your T-stats and see what you have going on in there.
If you're like most, your T-stats haven't been pulled in several hundred hours of use. Just sayin...

Doing this simple procedure is far more beneficial than using any chemical in your flushing.
Note: your T-stats remain closed during any flush procedure - engine on or off. You don't reach 158 degrees at idle with engine on so your T-stats are locked shut.

It is a misconception that water does not flow through all cooling passages when the t-stat is closed. It does just at a lesser volume. If cooling water were not present the head would overheat in a damaging way.

Whether or not a t-stat will open when flushing is open for debate. My experience on my outboard motor is that they will open based on my measurements with an infrared thermometer. As the motor runs, you can see the head temps rising and then level out. The leveling out is the t-stats opening .Having the temp displayed on the thermometer should jive with the t-stat spec. It is very helpful to measure and note these normal head temps a few times when everything is working well so that when something is out of whack, you will know it. Regardless of the actual operation range for your t-stat, on a V motor, both head temps should be close to each other. If one is far off from the other, without base line measurements for comparison, it may be difficult to tell if a t-stat is stuck, open,closed or in between.
I find that the contactless IR thermometers are very handy tools for lots of boat maintenance tasks

 

[Jonah]

My inputs: Flush all you want with water or whatever chemical you like but Yamaha recommends you pull the T-Stats and inspect the T-Stat bores every 100 hours. [...]

Thanks very much. This is a bit beyond my abilities, so I will add it to my mechanic's list at the next 100-hour service. The engines have only 400 hours on them, so hopefully the T-Stats are in ok shape.

 

[Jonah]

But ... back to using Salt Away. Do all others who use this stuff just use the full 5oz cup each time? Just seems like quite a waste.

Thanks again!

 

[HMBJack]

Seasick,

I don't disagree with you.
I will only add that very little freshwater passes through the closed T-stats.
I too have measured my engine temps while flushing at idle (2 hoses: engine running on muffs + flush attachment).
Highest temp. reading was 109 degrees and that was after 20 minutes idling.
So, with our 158 degree T-stats (on V6 four strokes), those T-stats are closed. One guy took the time to measure how much freshwater passes through the closed T-stat. His findings were only a 1/2 gallon after 10 minutes at idle. To me, that is unimpressive.

My point to all is to pull your T-Stats as per Yamaha's recommendation every 100 hours and clean out the bore with an old toothbrush or pipe brush.
Like me, you might be surprised what you see in your T-stat bores (after regular flushing). I have photos to show BTW (just don't know how to upload them here).

Here is a clip of the freshwater flow using the flush port and the engine OFF
Note how little water passes with the T-stat held in place... This is what your engine does when flushing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acC0QP5 ... e=youtu.be

And here is a clip of the freshwater flow using muffs with engine running.
Note how much water passes WITHOUT the T-stat. This is what your engine does not do when flushing (due to the closed t-stat).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya1hfSA ... e=youtu.be

Point is - with the T-stat closed, no matter how you flush, there ain't much flushing going on at the T-stat bores (which are prone to salt build up and corossion).
That is why Yamaha says to pull your T-stats every 100 hours.
Go ahead and use Salt Away if that makes you feel better.

 

[Jonah]

Thanks again. I'll certainly make sure it happens at my next 100-hour service.

 

[HMBJack]

Sure thing Jonah. These engines are pretty easy to work on. You could do this yourself. Just remember not to overtighten the bolts on the T-stats. A 10mm socket is all you need. Good luck!

 

[Halfhitch]

I have always wished the manufacturers would design into their engines a diverter valve. It could be a manual valve that lifts the T-stat off its' seat so while flushing there would be full flow from the water pump past the T-stat and through the water jacket. This would help keep the corrosion down on the T-stat itself and the bore its' mounted in. Of course there would have to be a facility that would prevent one from trying to operate the boat with the lever in the wrong position, such as the cowling not being able to be mounted or rpms limited to idle or some such. What would really be the surest way to get the operators attention to this is if the lever was in the "flush" position, the lid to the beer cooler would be positively locked. That would get that lever back where it belonged in short order. :lol:

 

[HMBJack]

Halfhitch -

Yes! I totally agree 100 percent. But all of the manufacturers fail to design such a feature into their products.

In most cases, outboards are used in saltwater. If you could REALLY flush the block the way you describe, these things could last for 20,000 hours.

 

[Doc Stressor]

A lot of people misunderstand how the thermostats work on outboards. They are at the very end of the system, not at the beginning. They, along with the pressure relief (poppet) valves, increase the rate of water flow out of the system. Whether or not the thermostat is open or not, it doesn't affect the flow of water into and through the cooling system. When the thermostats are closed, the cooling water flows out around the exhaust midsection (the part that rots out on many Yamahas) to cool the exhaust. When the cylinder heads heat up and the thermostats open, the flow of water through the thermostat is just added to the same exhaust pathway as removes additional heat. At higher rpm, the pressure relief valves a the bottom of the block also open up to keep the water pressure from getting too high.

Here are a couple of diagrams:

The point is that it doesn't really matter much if the thermostat opens or not during a flush. If it doesn't open the only part of the system that isn't getting flushed is the top of the thermostat and the final water passage. That's why they want you to remove the thermostats periodically and clean them out manually. You can get a good bit of salt build up on top the thermostat if it doesn't open during the flush or if you use the hose attachment.

You can use the Saltaway reservoir many times. As long as the solution is blue and suds are visible during the flush you will be fine. It is very effective even when well diluted.

 

[HMBJack]

Thanks for taking the time to post this Doc.

Perhaps it is because the T-stats are at the END of the cooling system that salt crystals and bore corrosion develop.

Like you - I flush all the time. But I pulled my T-stats twice in the last 3 years on my twin F250's.
In each case, the starboard side T-stats were LOADED with salt crystals. Port side not so bad.
On the 3.3L V6's, the starboard side T-stat is located an inch or two HIGHER than the port side T-stat.
This may be why more salt accumulates there. Not sure.

Anyway, flushing is always a good thing. Just don't be fooled that your Salt Away and endless flushing is all you need to do. Flushing does not eliminate the possibility of corrosion in the T-stat bores. A year ago, I cleaned the heck out of my T-stat bores and now, 1 year and 270 hours later - here's what they look like (see photos).

To be safe, you need to pull and inspect your T-stats annually or every 100 hours as Yamaha recommends.
You may be surprised what you see in there...

 

[Halfhitch]

I found that whether I used Salt Away or not, the T-stats get corrosion build up. What I have started doing is making it part of my ritual when I change water pump impellers. I remove stats and clean everything I can reach. This is one place where the old adage "leave a sleeping dog lie" or "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is not advisable. If you wait till you see symptoms like overheating you may have a big repair bill.

 

[seasick]

Seasick,

I don't disagree with you.
I will only add that very little freshwater passes through the closed T-stats.
I too have measured my engine temps while flushing at idle (2 hoses: engine running on muffs + flush attachment).
Highest temp. reading was 109 degrees and that was after 20 minutes idling.
So, with our 158 degree T-stats (on V6 four strokes), those T-stats are closed. One guy took the time to measure how much freshwater passes through the closed T-stat. His findings were only a 1/2 gallon after 10 minutes at idle. To me, that is unimpressive.

My point to all is to pull your T-Stats as per Yamaha's recommendation every 100 hours and clean out the bore with an old toothbrush or pipe brush.
Like me, you might be surprised what you see in your T-stat bores (after regular flushing). I have photos to show BTW (just don't know how to upload them here).

Here is a clip of the freshwater flow using the flush port and the engine OFF
Note how little water passes with the T-stat held in place... This is what your engine does when flushing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acC0QP5 ... e=youtu.be

And here is a clip of the freshwater flow using muffs with engine running.
Note how much water passes WITHOUT the T-stat. This is what your engine does not do when flushing (due to the closed t-stat).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya1hfSA ... e=youtu.be

Point is - with the T-stat closed, no matter how you flush, there ain't much flushing going on at the T-stat bores (which are prone to salt build up and corossion).
That is why Yamaha says to pull your T-stats every 100 hours.
Go ahead and use Salt Away if that makes you feel better.

Interesting info. I am surprised at your temp readings though. In my case if temps were that low, I would assume that the stats were stuck open or partially open. I have tested two SX motors, a 150 and a 200 to see how much water flows to the stat on the flush port and to my surprise, the water never gets there. With muffs the flow isn't much better. Of course with the motor running, you would get a bath Flushing with Saltaway should be done with the motor running IMO.

Regarding the 100 hour service for t-stats. I may be lucky but I don't change my stats regularly. If there is a temp issue that I measure I will pull the stats and take a look. The last time I checked, my stats chambers were clean, no buildup. I do not use saltaway regularly during the season, just at seasons end. I do however flush with fresh water after EVERY outing. I often wonder what the impact would be of skipping just one flush.
If my motors were new and under warranty, I would probably pay more attention to the manufacturer's service intervals but my motor is 17 years old.
There are things I do regularly like change separator filters, grease fittings, check (not necessarily replace) fuel filters and plugs. Some of the other things like water pump, VST screen, O2 sensor, I don't follow the recommendations. If you go by Yamaha's instructions, you have are not supposed to reuse gaskets. Granted t-stat gaskets are not super expensive but that darn VST o-ring is a $35 part. The O2 gaskets are a rip too.
I use my boat in relatively deep salt water and don't suck a lot of sand or dirt. I find that my water pumps lasts 5 years easily.
Some of my maintenance decisions are based on actual experience and other owners feedback. On my other boat that has Optimax motors, t-stats are known to go bad regularly and in that case, proactive replacement is probably warranted.

 

[HMBJack]

Seasick,

Again - good points and I agree with you. I do my boating in deep cold salt water off San Francisco. No sand ever goes into my water pumps and I go 400+ hours with no problems. I used to change them every year or two and found it a waste of time and parts. Now it's 3 seasons minimum for me between WP impellor changes.

One thing I will do differently this year is to flush with muffs + the flush fitting with engine on.
I previously only flushed with the power head flush fitting and that may not have been enough water flow in the 3.3L V6. The water pump will for sure flood the block better whether a T-stat is opened or not.

As to lower temps at idle - I too was surprised to see only a 100 degrees or so. One answer to this is the block of the 3.3L V6 weighs 200 pounds and at 6oo rpm's, in our 50 degree water here, 200# of metal simply does not heat up nearly enough to budge the 158 degree T-stats.

Just remember, with respect to corrosion, the mid sections of the at least the 3.3L V6's are prone to dry exhaust corrosion. I know a dock neighbor who experienced this on his 2006 F150. However, the 2nd known corrosion area to closely monitor are the T-stat bores for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. Knowing that your bores are clean and clear is much better than assuming. I have "been there and done that" and sharing my own experience in an effort to help others reading this.

 

[G243]

A lot of people misunderstand how the thermostats work on outboards. They are at the very end of the system, not at the beginning. They, along with the pressure relief (poppet) valves, increase the rate of water flow out of the system. Whether or not the thermostat is open or not, it doesn't affect the flow of water into and through the cooling system. When the thermostats are closed, the cooling water flows out around the exhaust midsection (the part that rots out on many Yamahas) to cool the exhaust. When the cylinder heads heat up and the thermostats open, the flow of water through the thermostat is just added to the same exhaust pathway as removes additional heat. At higher rpm, the pressure relief valves a the bottom of the block also open up to keep the water pressure from getting too high.

Here are a couple of diagrams:

The point is that it doesn't really matter much if the thermostat opens or not during a flush. If it doesn't open the only part of the system that isn't getting flushed is the top of the thermostat and the final water passage. That's why they want you to remove the thermostats periodically and clean them out manually. You can get a good bit of salt build up on top the thermostat if it doesn't open during the flush or if you use the hose attachment.

You can use the Saltaway reservoir many times. As long as the solution is blue and suds are visible during the flush you will be fine. It is very effective even when well diluted.

I cannot thank you enough for the details. The water path is what I was looking for.

 

[seasick]

Seasick,

Again - good points and I agree with you. I do my boating in deep cold salt water off San Francisco. No sand ever goes into my water pumps and I go 400+ hours with no problems. I used to change them every year or two and found it a waste of time and parts. Now it's 3 seasons minimum for me between WP impellor changes.

One thing I will do differently this year is to flush with muffs + the flush fitting with engine on.
I previously only flushed with the power head flush fitting and that may not have been enough water flow in the 3.3L V6. The water pump will for sure flood the block better whether a T-stat is opened or not.

As to lower temps at idle - I too was surprised to see only a 100 degrees or so. One answer to this is the block of the 3.3L V6 weighs 200 pounds and at 6oo rpm's, in our 50 degree water here, 200# of metal simply does not heat up nearly enough to budge the 158 degree T-stats.

Just remember, with respect to corrosion, the mid sections of the at least the 3.3L V6's are prone to dry exhaust corrosion. I know a dock neighbor who experienced this on his 2006 F150. However, the 2nd known corrosion area to closely monitor are the T-stat bores for all the reasons mentioned in this thread. Knowing that your bores are clean and clear is much better than assuming. I have "been there and done that" and sharing my own experience in an effort to help others reading this.

Although Yamaha says not to run the motor on the flush port, a few mechanics I know do it all the time and insist it isn't a problem. Of course you have to watch the revs and temps. I have tried that method a few times and it flushed with no problems or overheating but I did feel a bit nervous. I think that the supply water pressure and volume plays a part in this as does the supply water temperature.My motor has a overheat alarm only and not a temp gauge, so If I flush with the motor running, I need to stand by to make sure it doesn't overheat. Normally I am doing some other post trip maintenance while the motor flushes while not running.
I also think that if one boats in shallow or dirtied waters where the motor may pick up debris or sand, flushing with the muffs has an advantage to the flush port in that the water pump gets a good rinsing. I flush at my slip so using muffs is a pain and a bit risky of taking a dunk so I will stick with the flush port.

 

[Fishtales]

I don't use. I do flush at the dock after each use. So far, so good.