Took Factory Tour last Friday - WOW! - Incredible!

[SoutheastFL]

I guarantee you they know the "issues", as you call it, with all their boats. They change and adapt to improve the product all the time. Companies don't stay in business for 40 plus years by not improving their product.

Yeah - thats why Megabytes said ( on p.1 of this thread ) "After ( his ) tour the management team, including Kris and VP of Engineering David Neese, took us to a conference room for snacks, sodas, and Q&A. They wanted to hear likes, dislikes, and suggestions for future features.

 

[megabytes]

Simple really.

By the boat that best meets YOUR needs.

For me that has been a GW 3 of 3 times. There is nothing wrong with *constructive* criticism and opinions. I have provided both positive and negative feedback here, to dealers, and to the GW management team including the president and head of engineering. Believe me - they really want to know how their customers feel about their products.

If you don't know the difference between bashing and constructive criticism then you probably should't be posting here. :evil:

 

[Bama96]

I guarantee you they know the "issues", as you call it, with all their boats. They change and adapt to improve the product all the time. Companies don't stay in business for 40 plus years by not improving their product.

Yeah - thats why Megabytes said ( on p.1 of this thread ) "After ( his ) tour the management team, including Kris and VP of Engineering David Neese, took us to a conference room for snacks, sodas, and Q&A. They wanted to hear likes, dislikes, and suggestions for future features.

I don't understand why you are so fired up about this. You are in the minority here. Sorry. Guess everyone has cabin fever.

Here is a link for you.

http://www.pursuitowners.com/phpBB2/index.php

 

[SoutheastFL]

I guarantee you they know the "issues", as you call it, with all their boats. They change and adapt to improve the product all the time. Companies don't stay in business for 40 plus years by not improving their product.

Yeah - thats why Megabytes said ( on p.1 of this thread ) "After ( his ) tour the management team, including Kris and VP of Engineering David Neese, took us to a conference room for snacks, sodas, and Q&A. They wanted to hear likes, dislikes, and suggestions for future features.

I don't understand why you have such a hard on about this. You are in the minority here. Sorry. Guess everyone has cabin fever.

Here is a link for you.

http://www.pursuitowners.com/phpBB2/index.php

So I show you where another member has proven your comments wrong and that offends you ? On the first page I simply listed several features which can be improved upon. Obviously you're not even objective enough to acknowledge these facts nor big enough to respect someone else's opinion just because they disagree with you.

The forum would be all the better off if you stuck to the topic at hand and didn't make personal attacks with your digusting "hard on about this" comments.

 

[Anonymous]

SE, we talked about this before. I am with you ! I find here that most really do not know. Why do you think they ask 100's of questions? If they knew, well they would not ask !

I find I do better talking to my dogs as I polish or repair.

So this is your reaction after making some negative general statements about Grady's that are not entirely true? As soon as someone calls you on it we're all ignorant?

I came here about 3 years ago in good faith. I see where that got me quickly. Most souls lost out with me these days. But like they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks unless they want to learn them. Seems guys here have some type of Grady mentality that nothing can be better than a Grady. I am not sure what untrue general statements I have ever made. I don't hit the enter button unless I can back it up.

Trust me, once the market picks up and I can sell my boat without taking too much of a beating, the next one is not going to be a Grady. I will leave it at that.

What I should also state is in years that have past Grady was the cream of the crop. It isn't so anymore. Pursuit,Robalo and even Parker have passed them by quick. Contender and Regulator pretty much blow off any Grady CC once you see and know what you are looking at. It's rough primitive construction in the modern age I refer to.

 

[journeyman]

I can say this because I know she'd also find it funny...

My relationship with my Grady ----------. I found her, fell in love with her and made her my own. After I had her, there were a few things about her that I wish were different and once in a while there might even be something about her that drives me crazy! Some time has gone by and we certainly have become very comforable together but there are so many new models around to look at. Some faster, sleeker and some with very nice gadgets. I just can't help myself, I have to look, I even imagine myself with a new one. But then I remember why I fell in love in the first place and would never, ever marry (oops) buy anything else! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[richie rich]

SFL, your comment about being objective of other opinions is interesting.....especially when you tell someone that they are not even objective enough to acknowledge these facts.

Who's facts? Yours?

If you go on a boat and you like or dislike something its an opinion...the other guy can go on the same boat and have a completely different opinion.....but only facts are absolute, the sky is either blue or it isn't....opinions, are just that, opinions, and can be argued till the end of time....but when you dismiss someone's opinion because they "don't know the facts" you are basically saying you're right and they're wrong and they're too stupid or in kahoots with the manufacturer to see what's so obvious to an expert on boatbuilding and design as yourself.

If it were so obvious that the likes of Pursuit are head and shoulders above GW, (especially in the wiring department) why aren't more people buying them? They would be the steal of a lifetime, no? In boats 24 feet and larger, they were ranked 7th in total market share.....6 spots below the number one market share owner. Grady-White......In fact, all the misguided, uninformed, koolaid drinking opinionated subjective boaters put boats like Intrepid, Regulator, Seafox, Contender, and Boston Whaler all in front of your keen eye for quality. Why is that?

I have to give you credit, your comment on the forum being better if you stuck to the topic at hand and didn't make personal attacks with your disgusting "hard on about this"commnets...is right on......to bad you don't practice what you preach.

 

[Bama96]

I guarantee you they know the "issues", as you call it, with all their boats. They change and adapt to improve the product all the time. Companies don't stay in business for 40 plus years by not improving their product.

Yeah - thats why Megabytes said ( on p.1 of this thread ) "After ( his ) tour the management team, including Kris and VP of Engineering David Neese, took us to a conference room for snacks, sodas, and Q&A. They wanted to hear likes, dislikes, and suggestions for future features.

I don't understand why you have such a hard on about this. You are in the minority here. Sorry. Guess everyone has cabin fever.

Here is a link for you.

http://www.pursuitowners.com/phpBB2/index.php

So I show you where another member has proven your comments wrong and that offends you ? On the first page I simply listed several features which can be improved upon. Obviously you're not even objective enough to acknowledge these facts nor big enough to respect someone else's opinion just because they disagree with you.

The forum would be all the better off if you stuck to the topic at hand and didn't make personal attacks with your digusting "hard on about this" comments.

Fixed it for you. Sorry. Glad Grady does factory tours and visits with customers otherwise they would know nothing about their boats. :roll:

I think they know what kind of wiring they install, where they seal screw holes, and that they use wood in their hulls. You have brought nothing unique to their attention.

 

[CJBROWN]

i got wood in my hull??? WTF???

Gosh, I had a boat back when I lived in the NW that was built in 1958, and it was ALL WOOD! Can you believe it? It didn't have a stitch of fiberglass in it!!

24,000 pounds of wood and ballast, with 2 masts, a mercedes 180D diesel, and a diesel fired cookstove with a cast iron top. You should have seen the wiring in that thing! Had a 8D house battery, and two G27 starter batteries for the aux, and engine-driven refergeration. A power windless with 275' of 5/16" chain and a 50# anchor. She was 42' overall with a 12' beam, planked in vertical-grain douglas fir with galvanized screw fastenings. The decks were canvas set in paint over wood planks. They hadn't invented GPS yet, everybody had a loran beacon locator (I didn't) and a compass. We used charts, dead reckoning, and current tables.

You have to love your boat or you should sell it. (get divorced??!!)

Having been around boats for almost 50 years, when I wanted a runabout for the bay, the 208 was heads above its peers. Spendy, but better than all of them. For me it's like a ferrari for the water. 8)

 

[NOTHING ELSE MATTERS]

And this was built in 1964 and still floats. No battery, a 5 HP hand crank diesel/gas engine(yes, starts with gas then turn the valve to diesel and runs all day on a gallon of diesel), top speed 9 MPH, total length 4.25 meters and 750 kilos(1650 lbs) and is all wood, oh my god, it may rot one day. :mrgreen:

 

[SoutheastFL]

SFL, your comment about being objective of other opinions is interesting.....especially when you tell someone that they are not even objective enough to acknowledge these facts.

Who's facts? Yours?

If you go on a boat and you like or dislike something its an opinion...the other guy can go on the same boat and have a completely different opinion.....but only facts are absolute, the sky is either blue or it isn't....opinions, are just that, opinions, and can be argued till the end of time....but when you dismiss someone's opinion because they "don't know the facts" you are basically saying you're right and they're wrong and they're too stupid or in kahoots with the manufacturer to see what's so obvious to an expert on boatbuilding and design as yourself.

If it were so obvious that the likes of Pursuit are head and shoulders above GW, (especially in the wiring department) why aren't more people buying them? They would be the steal of a lifetime, no? In boats 24 feet and larger, they were ranked 7th in total market share.....6 spots below the number one market share owner. Grady-White......In fact, all the misguided, uninformed, koolaid drinking opinionated subjective boaters put boats like Intrepid, Regulator, Seafox, Contender, and Boston Whaler all in front of your keen eye for quality. Why is that?

I have to give you credit, your comment on the forum being better if you stuck to the topic at hand and didn't make personal attacks with your disgusting "hard on about this"commnets...is right on......to bad you don't practice what you preach.

The "facts" come from GW themselves - they went with fiberglass stringers in their bigger boats and tell us they're superior than wood, yet still use wood in their smaller boats, what double talk.

And if you can't tell the difference in quality between a sprayed on countertop finish and a solid core one then you'll buy anything as long as it has GW stamped on the side. Fortunately most buyers are much more open minded and objective that they can tell the difference. Same goes for GW's cheaply built aluminum framed windshields vs Pursuit's fiberglass ones, their bolt on bow pulpits vs ones molded into the hull - the list goes on and on.

How do you know people aren't buying Pursuits or any other boat vs GW ? Where ever you came up with your bogus marketing stats I don't believe them, and thats my right according to your thinking. You just can't stand to hear anyone say something the slightest bit critical of your sacred GWs, even when it'll improve the product and you'll benefit the next time you buy one of these "perfect" boats.

 

[ksgoldman]

SE, we talked about this before. I am with you ! I find here that most really do not know. Why do you think they ask 100's of questions? If they knew, well they would not ask !

I find I do better talking to my dogs as I polish or repair.

So this is your reaction after making some negative general statements about Grady's that are not entirely true? As soon as someone calls you on it we're all ignorant?

I came here about 3 years ago in good faith. I see where that got me quickly. Most souls lost out with me these days. But like they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks unless they want to learn them. Seems guys here have some type of Grady mentality that nothing can be better than a Grady. I am not sure what untrue general statements I have ever made. I don't hit the enter button unless I can back it up.

Trust me, once the market picks up and I can sell my boat without taking too much of a beating, the next one is not going to be a Grady. I will leave it at that.

What I should also state is in years that have past Grady was the cream of the crop. It isn't so anymore. Pursuit,Robalo and even Parker have passed them by quick. Contender and Regulator pretty much blow off any Grady CC once you see and know what you are looking at. It's rough primitive construction in the modern age I refer to.

As the original poster for this thread, all I was trying to do was to say that I had a great tour; was really impressed with how they build the boats; was appreciative of Eddie's time and getting to meet Kris and the management team; and am so glad that I bought my Grady White.

Interestingly on the subject of wood construction, a few people posting have talked about other boat brands that they think are as good if not better than GW, including the reference in this quote to Parker. I was just on the Parker website and pulled the following from their FAQ section:

Is there wood in Parker transoms?

Definitely. There is no better material available to provide the stiffness, strength and durability required than premium grade laminated boat ply. This high-grade, 14-ply marine-grade fir plywood completely encased in fiberglass exceeds Parker's requirements for long-term durability and satisfaction. A total laminate combination of fiberglass mat, woven roven, polyester, bonding putty and marine grade plywood exceeds 22 plys. Parker's approach of constant product improvement ensures that when something truly superior comes along which will add value and longer life, it will certainly be considered. The current method of transom installation is one that has been perfected over 20 years of constant product improvement. For those companies who have had intermittent problems with transom failures, it is understandable that they would pursue another alternative. Bottom line on Parker's approach is, if we can't improve it or it ain't broke... don't fix it!

Why does Parker choose a wood stringer system over a fiberglass stringer system?

With constant use over time, the low shear strength of foam core fiberglass stringers becomes evident. The foam begins to split and break down, allowing the glass skin to flex independently. The eventual result is hull failure. A wood stringer system maintains its strength without flexing. In order to achieve adequate strength in a fiberglass stringer system without injecting a core, it would be too heavy and expensive to produce. Mass (thickness) is the only way to provide strength in fiberglass stringers and unless a core (foam) is injected into the glass stringer system, there simply is not adequate strength. All the best manufacturers of small fiberglass boats agree that properly constructed boats begin with marine grade plywood stringers which are encapsulated and hand rolled in fiberglass and resin. Parker's solid fir plywood stringer system continues to give customers the strongest, toughest and safest fiberglass boats built. When boats are built properly, there is no need for gimmicks.


I agree that Parker builds great boats. I'm also pleased to learn that they use a similar method of construction to GW. I think that Parker did a good job in their FAQ section of their website answering the wood question. That said, if someone wants to avoid wood, they should buy from another manufacturer.

I really never intended to create such a firestorm in my "drink the Kool Aid" comments. If I choose to be a raving fan of Grady White, that's my prerogative. In any case, this has been an interesting post to watch.

 

[ElyseM]

The "facts" come from GW themselves - they went with fiberglass stringers in their bigger boats and tell us they're superior than wood, yet still use wood in their smaller boats, what double talk.

i'm only going to chime in on this one. gw did not tell me that they thought the composite stringers were better than wood. contrary, they said they could not use wood in the larger boats because it would add too much weight. i was specifically concerned with composite stringers and asked how the composites were holding up. they said that they had no reports of any failures and felt confident that they would hold up well in the larger craft. at no time did they even come close to suggesting that composite was better than wood. ron

ps, i was typing when ken posted, but that's where i was coming from vis a vis the wood concern. ron

 

[Strikezone]

Thanks for the factory tour photos. I enjoyed looking at them. I hope to go on a tour myself some day.

 

[BobP]

I don't understand all the defending going on here and at THT when someone dumps on Grady, for any reason.
Grady people are the easiet to bait, why I don't know. Embarrassing every time I see it.
When someone wants to have fun, they just drop the bait.
Suck it up next time, you are too sensitive.

If someone doesn't want to buy a Grady because they don't like the gelcoat color, so what ?
Wood stringers, so what?
price too high? so what?
etc

You are howling at the moon, might as well howl at the real moon, probably be better for your health.

As far as wood being no good and the curse of modern boat construction in so called "gold standard" terms, you can lead a horse to water, but how the heck can you make it drink it?
And you keep trying here and at THT, it's a horse for Pete's sake!

 

[ksgoldman]

Thanks for the factory tour photos. I enjoyed looking at them. I hope to go on a tour myself some day.

Happy to do so (I felt it was my obligation to the forum). I did feel a little geekish taking so many pictures but they said that they understood. I also thought that both GW owners and future buyers would appreciate the pix. I really had fun taking the tour - it's really awe inspiring.

 

[SoutheastFL]

As the original poster for this thread, all I was trying to do was to say that I had a great tour; was really impressed with how they build the boats; was appreciative of Eddie's time and getting to meet Kris and the management team; and am so glad that I bought my Grady White.

Interestingly on the subject of wood construction, a few people posting have talked about other boat brands that they think are as good if not better than GW, including the reference in this quote to Parker. I was just on the Parker website and pulled the following from their FAQ section:

Is there wood in Parker transoms?

Definitely. There is no better material available to provide the stiffness, strength and durability required than premium grade laminated boat ply. This high-grade, 14-ply marine-grade fir plywood completely encased in fiberglass exceeds Parker's requirements for long-term durability and satisfaction. A total laminate combination of fiberglass mat, woven roven, polyester, bonding putty and marine grade plywood exceeds 22 plys. Parker's approach of constant product improvement ensures that when something truly superior comes along which will add value and longer life, it will certainly be considered. The current method of transom installation is one that has been perfected over 20 years of constant product improvement. For those companies who have had intermittent problems with transom failures, it is understandable that they would pursue another alternative. Bottom line on Parker's approach is, if we can't improve it or it ain't broke... don't fix it!

Why does Parker choose a wood stringer system over a fiberglass stringer system?

With constant use over time, the low shear strength of foam core fiberglass stringers becomes evident. The foam begins to split and break down, allowing the glass skin to flex independently. The eventual result is hull failure. A wood stringer system maintains its strength without flexing. In order to achieve adequate strength in a fiberglass stringer system without injecting a core, it would be too heavy and expensive to produce. Mass (thickness) is the only way to provide strength in fiberglass stringers and unless a core (foam) is injected into the glass stringer system, there simply is not adequate strength. All the best manufacturers of small fiberglass boats agree that properly constructed boats begin with marine grade plywood stringers which are encapsulated and hand rolled in fiberglass and resin. Parker's solid fir plywood stringer system continues to give customers the strongest, toughest and safest fiberglass boats built. When boats are built properly, there is no need for gimmicks.

I think Parker is an inferior builder to GW, they aren't even in the same league. So you trying to say because GWs use the same materials in their stringers that an inferior company like Parker does somehow confirms they build a superior product than other top quality builders ? - try again. And once again every one of your statements gets refuted by GW themselves when they chose to put composite stringers in their bigger boats - its all about them being able to put more money in their pockets with wood and they'll use it in every boat they can get away with. Your points are once again just another attempt at double talk.

The same goes for the cheaply sprayed on finish in their countertops, bolt on bow pulpits vs molded in fiberglass, cheaply built aluminum framed windshields vs monocoque fiberglass, wood transoms that rot etc - its simply to make more profit for the owner.

 

[megabytes]

Registered users on Pursuit owners board: 305
Registered users on GW owners board: 4597

Perhaps Pursuit should start serving koolaid to their customers. :lol:

Ok, so GW has a bolted pulpit, aluminum frame windshield, and uses wood.

Compare the GW transom door to a Pursuit, Robolo, etc.
Check out macerators on below deck fishboxes on several boats.
How about potentially deadly gas gensets? Diesel? First on an outboard boat?
Albemarle uses wood. So does Hatteras.
Foam flotation?
Gunnel height?
Toe rails?
SS handholds?
Storage?
Cockpit size?
Amenities?

You can find any set of features or attributes of a boat, car, etc. that may be superior on one model over another. To argue quality and design over any small set of these is pointless.

 

[CJBROWN]

SoutheastFL likes to argue, and he's super critical, just look at his history.
He's probably just a super-smart cranky old fart like me. :wink:

I think he understands boats and design, he doesn't like to see corners cut, and doesn't mind pointing out the shortcomings. Rather than turn all of our threads into an argument, we should probably just let him vent, and move on. I got so sick and tired of all the bickering on THT that I just never login there anymore. I would sure hate to see this forum go that way.

Unfortunately, like most forums, people post things and act rudely where they wouldn't if they were in person. And you can't read any emotion into text so it's easy to misunderstand where someone is coming from. What looks harsh to a reader may not have been intended from the sender, and it can just be the way they are, their personality. Some people are easy going, some are hyper critical and have a need to always be right. Men tend to do this, it's like chest puffing, one-upmanship, comes from the ancient time of our evolution when we had to fight for the attention of our mate.

I also think a builder has to draw the line somewhere when 'it's good enough' and 'let's run with it'. Like the window frames. Yeah, they could opt for something more up to date, but Taylor-Made has been building product for them for probably 50 years so they stay with them. Relationships get built like that when you're a factory. Otherwise costs just completely run away and your product gets so over priced it puts you out of the market. And if something is 'working' they tend not to mess with it, the alternatives could be worse once you spend the time and money to make the change.

All JMHO, no offense meant to anyone, including our resident critic. :wink:

BTW, the write-up and photos from the OP were fantastic. Thanks for posting!

 

[richie rich]

The information I provided was not an opinion...it is statistical information from Boating Industry Trade Magazine, 2009 Market Data Book, August 2009 Issue, Page 28.

Everglades, Hydra-Sport and Century round out the top 10 which make up 42% of that market share.