The Tournament 307 is up on the GW web site. Looks great from the perspective of a DC owner. I can't wait to hear what people have to say pro and con. Let it fly guys :lol:
Tournament 307
- Thread starter Tashmoo
- Start date
It looks great, but I still don't get the point of big bow riders. I would think they (the 275 and 307) would appeal more to families looking to do day trips (which I assume is the target market) if it had a cuddy cabin instead of the forward seating.
Looks great. Like the sink/fridge/grill area. Bet that baby is going to push 200K with twin F350's. :shock:
GW204, the attraction for me and my wife (we have a 275) is the ability to remove the Bimini and have a fishing machine. You can walk a fish bow to stern with nothing to interfere with you. You and a passenger can run for miles in comfort as you are seated and not dealing with a leaning post and trying to hide behind the center console in crappy weather. Next I am 6'3 and 225 lbs and getting between the gunwale and the center console in rough water is certainly doable but walking up the center of the boat through a 24" opening is much easier on the aging bones. When you're done fishing and it is family time the boat in my opinion performs much better than a center console for that purpose. It is much more comfortable, has more seating and cockpit space.
Do not get me wrong I am not knocking a center console here if my wife did not want to be part of boating then I would probably own a Regulator or Pursuit 26 but the point is that she does want to go out on the boat and the DC concept makes the experience much more pleasant for her. As for going out overnight we have absolutely no interest in overnighting in a boat. We live on the ocean and can walk to our boat so day trips are our thing. If I lived away from the water then staying on the boat would be more interesting and hence a walk around or express would be as well.
For the same reasons as a manufacturer produces large CC's for the market the same applies to DC's. I had a Pursuit 20' DC and did not like going off shore in it unless the day was perfect, with the 275 DC I have far less worry about going 30 mile out and having the weather kick up.
That's all folks!
Do not get me wrong I am not knocking a center console here if my wife did not want to be part of boating then I would probably own a Regulator or Pursuit 26 but the point is that she does want to go out on the boat and the DC concept makes the experience much more pleasant for her. As for going out overnight we have absolutely no interest in overnighting in a boat. We live on the ocean and can walk to our boat so day trips are our thing. If I lived away from the water then staying on the boat would be more interesting and hence a walk around or express would be as well.
For the same reasons as a manufacturer produces large CC's for the market the same applies to DC's. I had a Pursuit 20' DC and did not like going off shore in it unless the day was perfect, with the 275 DC I have far less worry about going 30 mile out and having the weather kick up.
That's all folks!
Tashmoo:
Thanks for the heads up on the Tournament 30. Great fun seeing this model right out of the starting gate. This version will have appeal to families as well as fishermen just like the 275. Grady has been trying to capture a wider segment of the market with these larger and well appointed Tournament DC models. Can you imagine two F350s on this 30 foot model? I must wonder, however, if the F350s raise all the way out of the water on this 30 foot model. And has Grady added sufficient rod holders and a tackle drawer? Nice vessel nonetheless.
GW204:
Tashmoo has hit the important points for DC appeal to some boaters. Our summer home is on the water with our GW Tournament 225 in front on a mooring. Consequently, we only day trip and fish with our GW Tournament. We don't need a cabin or cuddy which we find too cramped and is used mostly for storage on small boats anyway. If we venture to Montauk, the Block, Newport, Fisher's Island etc etc we're only one half hour away at the most and can be back at home port in a shake. To us, the CCs are not as comfortable and the leaning posts are darn unconfortable after a short while. My wife definitely likes sitting in a real captain's helm chair down in the boat as opposed to the elevated position of leaning posts on CCs. We like the convenience of the DC to get to and from the bow and stern quickly for a variety of reasons not the least of which is to easily access the mooring line when casting off or tying up which we do frequently. We are interested in a sporty looking vessel but, yet rugged and heavy enough to do some real fising in surly waters. Interestingly enough, in most weather conditions except the roughest, our guests always gravitate to the bow section. I agree with Tashmoo that if we lived away from the water and at some distance, we would probably look at a cabin model. Also we are in our mid-60s and tall so we don't find overnighting on a small cabin boat as entertaining as we did when younger.
Thanks for the heads up on the Tournament 30. Great fun seeing this model right out of the starting gate. This version will have appeal to families as well as fishermen just like the 275. Grady has been trying to capture a wider segment of the market with these larger and well appointed Tournament DC models. Can you imagine two F350s on this 30 foot model? I must wonder, however, if the F350s raise all the way out of the water on this 30 foot model. And has Grady added sufficient rod holders and a tackle drawer? Nice vessel nonetheless.
GW204:
Tashmoo has hit the important points for DC appeal to some boaters. Our summer home is on the water with our GW Tournament 225 in front on a mooring. Consequently, we only day trip and fish with our GW Tournament. We don't need a cabin or cuddy which we find too cramped and is used mostly for storage on small boats anyway. If we venture to Montauk, the Block, Newport, Fisher's Island etc etc we're only one half hour away at the most and can be back at home port in a shake. To us, the CCs are not as comfortable and the leaning posts are darn unconfortable after a short while. My wife definitely likes sitting in a real captain's helm chair down in the boat as opposed to the elevated position of leaning posts on CCs. We like the convenience of the DC to get to and from the bow and stern quickly for a variety of reasons not the least of which is to easily access the mooring line when casting off or tying up which we do frequently. We are interested in a sporty looking vessel but, yet rugged and heavy enough to do some real fising in surly waters. Interestingly enough, in most weather conditions except the roughest, our guests always gravitate to the bow section. I agree with Tashmoo that if we lived away from the water and at some distance, we would probably look at a cabin model. Also we are in our mid-60s and tall so we don't find overnighting on a small cabin boat as entertaining as we did when younger.
Well for us West Coast guys, specifically Northern California, there is not really the culture of overnighting on boats. The cuddy becomes a storage area or a place for the kids to rest. The express style of boat tends to waste a lot of space from a usability standpoint.
The center console, although it allows for more usable space, is not common in that the water temps of 50-56 degrees mean getting wet is a not prefered
We also rarely get outside temps about the 70s, so staying warm is important with some sort of enclosure.
So the DC model is sort of the best of both worlds: lots or usable space and protection when running for the crew.
The other issue is that fishing in northern California is pretty limited now that the Salmon season is gone (we'll see in the future) and Tuna make an appearance only a few times a year, that means that in choosing a boat, family fun and social cruising are a big percentage of boat usage in addition to fishability. I am not in the market yet, but when I am I will be looking at both the 275, 307, and the new Edgewater 245cx.
One concern is that the 307 only has 206 gallons of fuel...all of the 30' GW hulls have 290+ and the 275 is 200 as well. I am new to Grady White, does the factory ever install larger fuel tanks per request?
The center console, although it allows for more usable space, is not common in that the water temps of 50-56 degrees mean getting wet is a not prefered
We also rarely get outside temps about the 70s, so staying warm is important with some sort of enclosure.So the DC model is sort of the best of both worlds: lots or usable space and protection when running for the crew.
The other issue is that fishing in northern California is pretty limited now that the Salmon season is gone (we'll see in the future) and Tuna make an appearance only a few times a year, that means that in choosing a boat, family fun and social cruising are a big percentage of boat usage in addition to fishability. I am not in the market yet, but when I am I will be looking at both the 275, 307, and the new Edgewater 245cx.
One concern is that the 307 only has 206 gallons of fuel...all of the 30' GW hulls have 290+ and the 275 is 200 as well. I am new to Grady White, does the factory ever install larger fuel tanks per request?
gigi_three:
Grady does not list an optional auxillary fuel tank for the 275 or the 307, but you should ask GW anyway. Tashmoo is the go to authority on this issue since he just acquired a new 275.
The Edgewater 245cx looks to be a very nice vessel. You may find that the GW 275 and 307 have more cockpit sq footage. A good configuration for the 275 is two delux captain's chairs and omit the optional slide out sleeper seat. Bring aboard a fold up capatin's chair (with optional rod holder for fishing) if you need an extra seat.
Greatly appreciated reading your comments about boating preferences for Pacific Northwest boaters.
Grady does not list an optional auxillary fuel tank for the 275 or the 307, but you should ask GW anyway. Tashmoo is the go to authority on this issue since he just acquired a new 275.
The Edgewater 245cx looks to be a very nice vessel. You may find that the GW 275 and 307 have more cockpit sq footage. A good configuration for the 275 is two delux captain's chairs and omit the optional slide out sleeper seat. Bring aboard a fold up capatin's chair (with optional rod holder for fishing) if you need an extra seat.
Greatly appreciated reading your comments about boating preferences for Pacific Northwest boaters.
I can see how the 275 may be flexable for more than 1 role but I don't see the 307 being as flexable. GW may be venturing in a different market an may get suprised of the outcome. I'm still shaking my head over the last two boats (290 and 307).
Most have not noticed since it has been slowly developing, Grady market target group has shifted considerably over the years.
The 307 is an SUB (sport utility boat) vs. true fishing machine, a center console.
The 307 is an SUB (sport utility boat) vs. true fishing machine, a center console.
It is inevitable for the market to shift over time. If this was not the case the majority of larger boats would still be powered with I/O's, 20 something women would still be driving Camaros in mass and someone, some place, would still be dancing to disco in a leisure suit. The only constant is change and for the most part change is good. If GW does not move with the market it will face the same fate that befell the likes of American Motors. A reasonably built 1970’s car that no one wanted to own.
As for DC's growing popularity from my own personal observations after being in the marina that I am in for the past 14 seasons the shift in boat design is clearly on. Five years ago I was the only "SUB" in a marina of 350 boats many of which were walk arounds and center consoles, today the walk arounds are all but gone and I am now one of 12 DC’s of which most are less than 3 years old. So while some may consider a DC or "SUB" less of a fishing boat (which I don't understand but we can save that for later) the design is clearly scratching the itch of a growing segment of the market. If it were not, GW would not be building more models nor would Edge Water and Pursuit would not have one on the drawing board. I asked the question for years why is no one building a larger DC to service the market for the guy that has a CC but his family won’t go out with him because there is nowhere to sit or get out of the elements or to hang out once you get to the beach. I know of several guys that would love to have their families want to boat with them but won’t. In closing this semi-rant, if all I did on a boat was fish I might own a CC but I do a lot more than just fish and this boat makes it very enjoyable for not only me but for my family as well. To those who don’t like the direction GW is going in, try going out on a DC you probably will not agree with me but you might understand what it is that I am say and maybe even like it.
As for DC's growing popularity from my own personal observations after being in the marina that I am in for the past 14 seasons the shift in boat design is clearly on. Five years ago I was the only "SUB" in a marina of 350 boats many of which were walk arounds and center consoles, today the walk arounds are all but gone and I am now one of 12 DC’s of which most are less than 3 years old. So while some may consider a DC or "SUB" less of a fishing boat (which I don't understand but we can save that for later) the design is clearly scratching the itch of a growing segment of the market. If it were not, GW would not be building more models nor would Edge Water and Pursuit would not have one on the drawing board. I asked the question for years why is no one building a larger DC to service the market for the guy that has a CC but his family won’t go out with him because there is nowhere to sit or get out of the elements or to hang out once you get to the beach. I know of several guys that would love to have their families want to boat with them but won’t. In closing this semi-rant, if all I did on a boat was fish I might own a CC but I do a lot more than just fish and this boat makes it very enjoyable for not only me but for my family as well. To those who don’t like the direction GW is going in, try going out on a DC you probably will not agree with me but you might understand what it is that I am say and maybe even like it.
BobP I think you are partly right on the Grady market shift. When we were in the market last year for a larger Grady White, the Grady dealer stated outright that Grady was trying to broaden its customer base to the family market place with the T275 while still keeping a fishing configuration option. David Neese, Grady-White Vice-President Engineering, states in the Grady web site that the 275 and 307 are open family boats, hybrid "SUBs" if you will. That being said, we were able to configure a T275 with the dealership more as a fishing vessel by eliminating options such as the port side chair/sleeper seat and the "cocktail" stand behind the helmsman's chair. They were replaced with two delux (as mentioned in an earlier post) captian's chairs which made possible substantially more cockpit space for fishing.
My wife (who loves to fish) and many other families we have discussed the Grady DC design with stated emphatically that the Grady DC is much preferred along with its beefy, rugged construction. I think Grady will have an even more flexible vessel (family vs. fishing) with a few more changes/options in the Tournament 275/307 line:
1. Transom fold down seat as an option (replaced with rod holders)
2. Removable seat cushions and bolsters in the bow section for easier movement when fishing
3. Full elevation of the F350 torpedo out of the water (engineering change, not a SUB issue).
I am interested to see what the sales data looks like for the T307 for the upcoming year.
My wife (who loves to fish) and many other families we have discussed the Grady DC design with stated emphatically that the Grady DC is much preferred along with its beefy, rugged construction. I think Grady will have an even more flexible vessel (family vs. fishing) with a few more changes/options in the Tournament 275/307 line:
1. Transom fold down seat as an option (replaced with rod holders)
2. Removable seat cushions and bolsters in the bow section for easier movement when fishing
3. Full elevation of the F350 torpedo out of the water (engineering change, not a SUB issue).
I am interested to see what the sales data looks like for the T307 for the upcoming year.
wahoo33417
GreatGrady Captain
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Striped Bass: Can you post some photos of the interior of your boat. I don't think any Grady photos show the more simple/open configuation.
Tx, Rob
Tx, Rob
While it is obvious GW (and any other wise builder) is trying to expand their reach, I don't believe they are shifting too far away from fishing and toward family/cruising. It seems to me they are responding to what the majority of their customers want which is smart business.
The 275 and 307 are in response to demand for larger DCs while the new 336 Canyon is one SERIOUS fishing machine. GW offers more choices in outboard boats that almost any other builder including, Pursuit and BW.
One would be hard pressed to name a feature or design change which was contrary to their customer feedback. I certainly don't agree with every feature of every boat but I also cannot name another brand which meets the customer needs better.
The only general area where I would like to see GW improve is attention to details and finish in some hidden areas. Do that and folks would quite comparing GW to Pursuit.
The 275 and 307 are in response to demand for larger DCs while the new 336 Canyon is one SERIOUS fishing machine. GW offers more choices in outboard boats that almost any other builder including, Pursuit and BW.
One would be hard pressed to name a feature or design change which was contrary to their customer feedback. I certainly don't agree with every feature of every boat but I also cannot name another brand which meets the customer needs better.
The only general area where I would like to see GW improve is attention to details and finish in some hidden areas. Do that and folks would quite comparing GW to Pursuit.
The great hoax being perpetrated by grady sales speak is that at some time in history, recreational fishing was not a family activity, but then it became a family activity and Grady is now marketing to it (?) Absurd.
Recreational fishing has always been an all age, all gender, all race, all affordable level activity, something for every generation, be it via surf, pier, or boat. And don't let anyone get away with saying anything else.
Dual console boats are bow riders, that have to be dual console to allow access to ride the bow, how else can it be done?
Dual consoles provide more seating than a center console does or cabin boat, at an added cost over a cc. They don't provide more fishability unless one wants to sit down while fishing and doesn't believe in deck chair use.
With some simple canvas wings, a CC can do just as good to block wind and wet conditions that don't allow riding the bow in any boat. On a boat this big there is room for a head, same as on a CC. Both DC and CCs are day boats.
The dual console boat of equal hull to a CC is a more expensive boat making it less affordable to the masses.
What Grady new marketing is - is to a focus crowd of higher socioeconomic level (vs. " if you have to ask the price you can't afford it" crowd) who also occassionaly fish vs. hangout/raft up, and want an easier cleanup (say vs. an upscale carpeted Cobalt DC).
Now how can Grady go about saying that in their sales speak directives ?
The first boat I owned was a 17 ft bow rider Cruisers rally, it didn't have electrically operated hide away perimeter lounge seats, we had to manually fold out the back to back seats, to lounge, the old fashion way.
And yes, it had two consoles.
Recreational fishing has always been an all age, all gender, all race, all affordable level activity, something for every generation, be it via surf, pier, or boat. And don't let anyone get away with saying anything else.
Dual console boats are bow riders, that have to be dual console to allow access to ride the bow, how else can it be done?
Dual consoles provide more seating than a center console does or cabin boat, at an added cost over a cc. They don't provide more fishability unless one wants to sit down while fishing and doesn't believe in deck chair use.
With some simple canvas wings, a CC can do just as good to block wind and wet conditions that don't allow riding the bow in any boat. On a boat this big there is room for a head, same as on a CC. Both DC and CCs are day boats.
The dual console boat of equal hull to a CC is a more expensive boat making it less affordable to the masses.
What Grady new marketing is - is to a focus crowd of higher socioeconomic level (vs. " if you have to ask the price you can't afford it" crowd) who also occassionaly fish vs. hangout/raft up, and want an easier cleanup (say vs. an upscale carpeted Cobalt DC).
Now how can Grady go about saying that in their sales speak directives ?
The first boat I owned was a 17 ft bow rider Cruisers rally, it didn't have electrically operated hide away perimeter lounge seats, we had to manually fold out the back to back seats, to lounge, the old fashion way.
And yes, it had two consoles.
DCs are not being cross-shopped with Cobalts in most cases. OB vs I/O and ski/cruise vs fish/cruise are different buyers.
I've had CCs, WAs, and a DC, and the DC is a multi purpose boat. The are cruised/ski part time, fish part time. CCs are not comfortable cruisers. The guys buying DC have probably had a CC or 3 and are tired of having guests hang on to the T top.
My 205 is a tube-pulling, marina hopping, beach going family boat this time of year. In another month the enclosure will go on and it will be fished until 12/31 for Stripers. I don't even want to fish on a CC any more in the winter, because I don't like dressing like the Michelin man.
The high end DCs are being bought by families that want a boat that can do it all. GW has figured it out, so give them credit. This is a GW owner site, correct?
I've had CCs, WAs, and a DC, and the DC is a multi purpose boat. The are cruised/ski part time, fish part time. CCs are not comfortable cruisers. The guys buying DC have probably had a CC or 3 and are tired of having guests hang on to the T top.
My 205 is a tube-pulling, marina hopping, beach going family boat this time of year. In another month the enclosure will go on and it will be fished until 12/31 for Stripers. I don't even want to fish on a CC any more in the winter, because I don't like dressing like the Michelin man.
The high end DCs are being bought by families that want a boat that can do it all. GW has figured it out, so give them credit. This is a GW owner site, correct?
wahoo33417:
Sorry, no pics. We opted to wait another year before moving up from our T225. Grady said they would eventually address those other issues mentioned in the post (save the F350 torpedo) so we are patiently waiting. One item I omitted in the earlier post was the need for a tackle drawer which Grady eliminated to make way for the head compartment. That, to me, is a serious ommission and an issue we are waiting to be rectified. They did agree, however, to the the two captain's helm chairs which was important to us since the port side lounge seat and starboard sink console behind the helm seat were unnecessary for us. Essentially, we wanted the T 275 configured like a larger T225 as posted but with a European transom.
BobP: You are correct that DCs are bow riders. It was assumed in my comments that the GW DC bow rider design is part of the appeal. I agree with your comments about the general appeal of recreational fishing. But, I must state that my family would only venture out in our previous CC when the weather and conditions were perfect. The elevated leaning post above the gunwhale was unsettling to The Admiral especially when we fished The Race in heavy fall weather. Now we venture out in most weather conditions. We were sensitive to the higher priced GW you refer to as the "great hoax" before we bought our GW. So we sea trialed over twenty different boat manufacturers (DC and CC) before we made our decision. Grady won hands down and we felt the higher price was worth the cost. In our opinion Grady "gets it". My guess is that when the other manufacturers (e.g. Edge Water and Pursuit mentioned by Tashmoo) hit the market place with their DCs the playing field may be leveled a bit and give more choice to us boaters assuming the competitors have a lower price.
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Sorry, no pics. We opted to wait another year before moving up from our T225. Grady said they would eventually address those other issues mentioned in the post (save the F350 torpedo) so we are patiently waiting. One item I omitted in the earlier post was the need for a tackle drawer which Grady eliminated to make way for the head compartment. That, to me, is a serious ommission and an issue we are waiting to be rectified. They did agree, however, to the the two captain's helm chairs which was important to us since the port side lounge seat and starboard sink console behind the helm seat were unnecessary for us. Essentially, we wanted the T 275 configured like a larger T225 as posted but with a European transom.
BobP: You are correct that DCs are bow riders. It was assumed in my comments that the GW DC bow rider design is part of the appeal. I agree with your comments about the general appeal of recreational fishing. But, I must state that my family would only venture out in our previous CC when the weather and conditions were perfect. The elevated leaning post above the gunwhale was unsettling to The Admiral especially when we fished The Race in heavy fall weather. Now we venture out in most weather conditions. We were sensitive to the higher priced GW you refer to as the "great hoax" before we bought our GW. So we sea trialed over twenty different boat manufacturers (DC and CC) before we made our decision. Grady won hands down and we felt the higher price was worth the cost. In our opinion Grady "gets it". My guess is that when the other manufacturers (e.g. Edge Water and Pursuit mentioned by Tashmoo) hit the market place with their DCs the playing field may be leveled a bit and give more choice to us boaters assuming the competitors have a lower price.
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Jeez, they make 25 different f'in models. So what if some are more family oriented. They have 5 bow riders out of 25 models. You want to fish, pick one of the other 20 for cripes sake.
If Bob P was running the show, G/W would be out of business because he'd still be building 1992 designs and wondering where all the "classic" buyers went. The graveyard, that's where Bob. Want some cheese with that whine.
If Bob P was running the show, G/W would be out of business because he'd still be building 1992 designs and wondering where all the "classic" buyers went. The graveyard, that's where Bob. Want some cheese with that whine.
I want GW to stay in business..I am all for whatever they have to do to appeal to the ever-changing masses.
I love my Gulfstream..I stay overnite in it every time I take it out..A walkaround is perfect for me..
I can also see how a Tournament wears a lot of different hats..besides, they look absolutely Fab.....
I love my Gulfstream..I stay overnite in it every time I take it out..A walkaround is perfect for me..
I can also see how a Tournament wears a lot of different hats..besides, they look absolutely Fab.....
Just my two cents, but having owned CC boats for 21 years and being 55 YO now I love my DC. There is no comparison to a CC when it comes to getting out of the weather and out of the cold. I look forward to putting a propane heater in a milk crate and being able to get warm late this fall and early next spring. It's true, as I have gotten older I'm not willing to be as uncomfortable as I once was. I have had nothing but compliments and appreciation from all my family and guests this first season with the Tournament 225. Everyone has thanked me for selling the CC and has told me how much more they like the DC. I can finally go out if the skies aren't perfect and not worry about my passengers. We have a cabin on the lake so overnighting isn't one of my priorities either and I sure like the low towing profile of the boat vs my CC w/ T-Top. As folks say, that's why there is chocolate, strawberry, and vanilla and to each his own. The DC just happens to fit me to a "T". Hopefully the best boat is the one you actually bought! As Warren Buffett is fond of saying; "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get."