Towing 30'+ & CDL, Non-Commerce

[Andrew93]

Looking for actual first hand experience here

Wondering if anyone has been cited for not having a CDL towing their 26,001+ combined weight truck/trailer. Everything I read in regulations and publications say I DO NOT need a CDL where I am not towing for commerce, if I chartered different story, but I do not. Every CDL driver I know and even a few state cops I talked to say I do, local police said no.

There is a similar debate on THT, but curious if anyone has actually been called to the carpet and the outcome if they fought it. Everything else seems like a lot of hearsay. I say my boat trailer is no different than a giant 5th wheel camper, but if that same camper was king used in commerce then that driver absolutely needs a CDL, which some CDL drivers I know say thats not true.

My conclusion so far is no-one knows, and curious to any actual case law.

Do you need a CDL for your new HD truck or RV? The truth - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

New trucks claiming maximum towing numbers with BIG, BOLD NUMBERS causing a lot of concern about needing a CDL license. Here’s the truth.

pickuptrucktalk.com

 

[JJF]

Suggestion: call your local Grady dealer and ask if their drivers have a CDL.

I had a friend that had a limo company and his drivers only needed a CDL when having more than eight passengers (IIRC). Yes, it's a different situation, but I am sure you see my point.

 

[Andrew93]

I just realized I accidentally posted this in tne photo section, if a admin can move it that would be great

Any drivers at the dealer would need a CDL, they are for commerce. It’s the private owner moving their own boat which is in question.

 

[Hookup1]

I tow a 9,000 lbs load (boat/trailer). My F-150 is arguably 5,000 lbs. To Florida and back every winter for 15 years now. I have never been questioned.

You also have to consider wide-load laws by State. I'm 8'6" and can tow in any State.

How far are you towing? Local roads? Interstate? In-State or across State lines?
Is your vehicle registered commercial?
I'm assuming it is your personal tow - not for hire.
What does your boat/trailer weigh?
What are you towing with?

I would call your State Police. If you are doing this for your own boat with a personally owned truck (non-commercial) you are probably alright.

 

[Andrew93]

Truck and trailer combo is fine. 2022 2500HD Duramax GVW 11,350, 2018 Load Rite trailer 17,500, total of 28,850 gvwr. Your F150 gvwr is around 7k and prolly a 10k trailer, so you are nowhere near 26,000.

I know I will need an overwidth permit, thats not the end of the world. Looking to see if anyone has actually been questioned being over 26,000 when towing for personal use. There is so much hear-say out there I would be curious if anyone has ever been questioned.

 

[Hookup1]

If you need an oversize permit why not ask them?

 

[family affair]

According to the article you provided, as long as you are doing this for recreational purposes you are exempt. Get paid $1 and you will need a CDL if your truck's GCWR exceeds 26k for your trailer weight. According to the article, no 3/4 ton trucks have a GCWR over 26k.

 

[magicalbill]

When I tow my marlin with my Dodge Cummins Dually, I'm 24K truck, boat & trailer.

When I lived in Fla, my license said 26K/max. A Deputy told me anything over that, a CDL is needed, whether you tow for hire or recreationally.

I don't know, it may vary from state-to-state.

 

[Andrew93]

When I tow my marlin with my Dodge Cummins Dually, I'm 24K truck, boat & trailer.

When I lived in Fla, my license said 26K/max. A Deputy told me anything over that, a CDL is needed, whether you tow for hire or recreationally.

I don't know, it may vary from state-to-state.

States can adopt stricter standards than the feds, from what I found Mass has not which is surprising. I will weigh in around 22,000 I am figuring on a scale, but that doesn't matter as much. In the end I think I am going to print this article and leave in my glovebox. There are a lot of Marlins on trailer out there and I cannot imagine most have a CDL. Even if I opted for the 15,000 gvw trailer I would still be barely over and the boat would be maxing the trailer.

This seems like with a lot of law out there, its muddy at best

 

[DennisG01]

I don't have the exact answer, but I've towed (or a co-worker) heavier boats than yours (and look larger, too) and have never been stopped - this goes back probably over the last 20 years or so. But, again, have never been stopped... which means have never been questioned

EDIT... And, just to clarify - that was probably around 23K to 24K lbs - so still not OVER the 26K lb limit you're asking about... but was never stopped by police to have a conversation about it, either. So, like I said, still not a direct answer - but the boats I/we were carrying were obviously bigger looking (and bigger in reality) than yours and we were never even stopped. Granted... all that still leaves you with your question!

But... how does the law work? Is it according the VIN plate of the trailer and the tag on the door of the truck? Or is it ACTUAL weight? If it's actual weight, well, the Marlin really isn't all that heavy - even accounting for engines and full fuel it's still only up to about 11K lbs. Obviously there's more gear to add and the weight of the trailer (maybe 2,500lbs?).

But even at that, it's not all that much and nowhere near the 26K lbs. But back to the question (I'm curious)... what is the law based around? Actual weight or "possible" weight?

 

[Hookup1]

I checked with a friend who tows from Cape May to Marathon every year. I-95.

From Jim:
I have a 2019 F250 diesel curb weight 7264# gross 9900# there is a 51gal auxiliary fuel tank in the bed. I think the boat is 8260# dry. I see heavier weights listed, but I don’t have a cc tackle Center. Usually leave 40 to 50 gal of fuel on. The trailer is triple axle and actually for a bigger boat. not sure what it weighs, but I’m thinking at least 2-2.5K. With tackle tools, coolers, luggage, etc. it’s heavy. Weight has never come up just width.

Truck 9,000 boat 8,000 trailer 2,500 plus a few thousand in gear. Only time he had an issue was Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel - wide load - got a ticket. Otherwise never been questioned. 35' with twin 300's. Personally registered truck and trailer. Big enough to draw questions from the State Police.

Let's simplify this. Go weigh your rig. I think we're counting angels on a pin head.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I think you're very much overthinking this and the article that you linked actually says in it that "The first place to start with answering the CDL question, is the type of towing you are doing. Let’s say you are towing an RV camper to a lake. Are you doing this to get paid? Then, no, no matter what weight, what state or what truck you are using, you don’t need a CDL. Let’s go over that again and this is a key question: Are you towing for compensation, as part of a job, to get paid? If the answer is no, then stop reading, tell your friends they are wrong and move along. The FMCSA specifically addresses this in its FAQ with question #3."

Finally, at the end of the article it says that "Don’t get caught up in what someone said “that one time” or that you heard someone say a trailer or a truck that can tow 35,000 pounds MUST have a CDL. Remember the main question is recreation vs. commercial. Answering this question first can reduce a lot of the confusion right off the bat." I don't see anywhere in the article where it talks specifically about a boat/trailer, so I'd have to assume that the same thing is true between the RV campers mentioned above compared to towing a boat/trailer as well. It sounds like as long as you're not doing this for any sort of financial compensation or monetary gain then you'll be just fine.

 

[Andrew93]

I don't have the exact answer, but I've towed (or a co-worker) heavier boats than yours (and look larger, too) and have never been stopped - this goes back probably over the last 20 years or so. But, again, have never been stopped... which means have never been questioned

EDIT... And, just to clarify - that was probably around 23K to 24K lbs - so still not OVER the 26K lb limit you're asking about... but was never stopped by police to have a conversation about it, either. So, like I said, still not a direct answer - but the boats I/we were carrying were obviously bigger looking (and bigger in reality) than yours and we were never even stopped. Granted... all that still leaves you with your question!

But... how does the law work? Is it according the VIN plate of the trailer and the tag on the door of the truck? Or is it ACTUAL weight? If it's actual weight, well, the Marlin really isn't all that heavy - even accounting for engines and full fuel it's still only up to about 11K lbs. Obviously there's more gear to add and the weight of the trailer (maybe 2,500lbs?).

But even at that, it's not all that much and nowhere near the 26K lbs. But back to the question (I'm curious)... what is the law based around? Actual weight or "possible" weight?

The way the law works is the total potential weight, so the combined GVWR of truck and trailer. My truck is 11,350 and trailer 17,500. Similar to you I figured on a scale I would be around 22-23,000lbs. I was told the boat at the potential of weighing just over 12,000 with all tanks full, it will probably never weigh that over the road, but several trailer manufactures recommended the 15k capacity model.

 

[DennisG01]

The way the law works is the total potential weight, so the combined GVWR of truck and trailer. My truck is 11,350 and trailer 17,500. Similar to you I figured on a scale I would be around 22-23,000lbs. I was told the boat at the potential of weighing just over 12,000 with all tanks full, it will probably never weigh that over the road, but several trailer manufactures recommended the 15k capacity model.

OK, so it is, indeed, GCVWR. Thanks for that info.

I guess you'd have to check the available trailer models from a specific manufacturer. They won't have a model available for "every" weight - so it could be that (for that particular manufacturer, anyways) the next lower weight-rating is not enough so you have to jump up to the bigger one. Generally I don't like to go too much bigger - a certain percentage bigger is fine, but going too much bigger just provides a harsher ride for the boat. If it was me, I would do my own math on the weights and allow some extra for gear/ice and then see what's available and try to get a model that keeps your GCVWR in check.

You may be able to ask your trailer dealer to get the trailer manufacturer to de-rate the VIN placard, as well. Meaning, get the 17,500K GVWR trailer but de-rate the VIN enough to keep you legal.

 

[Andrew93]

OK, so it is, indeed, GCVWR. Thanks for that info.

I guess you'd have to check the available trailer models from a specific manufacturer. They won't have a model available for "every" weight - so it could be that (for that particular manufacturer, anyways) the next lower weight-rating is not enough so you have to jump up to the bigger one. Generally I don't like to go too much bigger - a certain percentage bigger is fine, but going too much bigger just provides a harsher ride for the boat. If it was me, I would do my own math on the weights and allow some extra for gear/ice and then see what's available and try to get a model that keeps your GCVWR in check.

You may be able to ask your trailer dealer to get the trailer manufacturer to de-rate the VIN placard, as well. Meaning, get the 17,500K GVWR trailer but de-rate the VIN enough to keep you legal.

I had a dump trailer derated when it was new and the manufacturer made it sound like they do it all the time. The trailer is a Load Rite, I would have to have it rated at 14,500, which on paper would give be 12,000 legal capacity, which should be ok. I figure I'll do a little more soul searching and decide on that if Load Rite will even do it.

I am glad to hear people here have not had many questions. I was not really worried until I asked the Truck Team Trooper and they were leaning CDL. I think they were now well read on the subject for commerce vs not, and I would hate to e the one one attempting to educate one on the side of the highway!

 

[Hookup1]

I had a dump trailer derated when it was new and the manufacturer made it sound like they do it all the time. The trailer is a Load Rite, I would have to have it rated at 14,500, which on paper would give be 12,000 legal capacity, which should be ok. I figure I'll do a little more soul searching and decide on that if Load Rite will even do it.

I am glad to hear people here have not had many questions. I was not really worried until I asked the Truck Team Trooper and they were leaning CDL. I think they were now well read on the subject for commerce vs not, and I would hate to e the one one attempting to educate one on the side of the highway!

That makes more sense. Getting the weight capacity off the truck/trailer vin or plate to determine total weight. Only way a State Trooper can determine on the side of the road if a CDL is required. You may be under on the scales that but I'm not sure it matters.

Is your truck registered personally or to your business? I don't think it actually matter if you are over 26,000. The Federal regs are there to protect the public from untrained drivers operating heavy vehicles/loads. Just to add to the confusion I found this from a NJ lawyer (but nowhere in the regs I saw). You need it but not for privately owned recreational vehicles. Does that only apply to motorhomes? What about boats?

When You Need a Commercial Driver’s Licenses (CDLs) in New Jersey

New Jersey requires a commercial driver's license to operate certain vehicles. Find out when you need one & when you don't from traffic lawyer Steve Richardson.

www.richardsonlawoffices.com

New Jersey created the commercial driver's license (CDL) under the NJ Commercial Driver License Act in 1990. The purpose of this act was to reduce or prevent commercial motor vehicle accidents, fatalities, and injuries by strengthening licensing and testing standards. You would need to obtain one if you want to be able to drive any of the following vehicles:

• A vehicle that has (or displays) a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of over 26,000 pounds (13 tons)
• A vehicle that has a gross combination weight rating over 26,000 pounds (13 tons), including a towed unit with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pound (5 tons).

However, there are some exceptions to this. They include:

• Privately owned recreational vehicles

 

[BobH1]

Andrew. At least you have the truck for the job. My main concern would be tires. I always upgrade my tow vehicle rims and tires. Wider, more plys, and stiffer sidewalls. Check the code on the sidewall.

 

[DennisG01]

I had a dump trailer derated when it was new and the manufacturer made it sound like they do it all the time. The trailer is a Load Rite, I would have to have it rated at 14,500, which on paper would give be 12,000 legal capacity, which should be ok. I figure I'll do a little more soul searching and decide on that if Load Rite will even do it.

I am glad to hear people here have not had many questions. I was not really worried until I asked the Truck Team Trooper and they were leaning CDL. I think they were now well read on the subject for commerce vs not, and I would hate to e the one one attempting to educate one on the side of the highway!

Load Rite has done it in the past - that I know for a fact. Can't say if they would still do it, of course. I don't see how that could come and back them, though?

Regarding the part about people here not beiing questioned - I know I've expressed my experience towing something that may "appear" to be overweight, but keep in mind that since I have never been (or coworkers) pulled over and questioned that, well, my experience really doesn't count for the purpose of your question!

 

[Done-it-again]

In California some people get a “non commercial” class A license, and its a very low percentage. Half the time the DMV has no clue what your are asking.

Never had an issue towing our 20k travel trailer or the 282 sailfish (when we had it).

I’m debating a 30’ Marlin with a 10’-7” beam towing vs weight.