Towing Capacity

[Capt Tom]

This is a topic discussed quite frequently on RV and P/U truck forums and is widely misunderstood. For example: someone has a truck with a 10K towing capacity and thinks they can tow a 9K boat with room to spare because the salesman told him so.

 

[family affair]

Sometimes that is true. Sometimes it isn't. What would you like to know?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I've been argued with multiple times on here about this very topic but I always like to leave a little bit of "wiggle room" so to speak with regard to towing capacities and so forth...

 

[Halfhitch]

This guy didn't leave enough "wiggle room".....

 

[Mustang65fbk]

This guy didn't leave enough "wiggle room".....

Lol I saw that the other day on The Qualified Captain. Absolutely insane what some people think they can do...

 

[Capt Tom]

Back to my example. No you can't tow a 9K boat with a half ton truck rated at 10K without exceeding your hitch capacity. The hitch is most likely only rated for 500 lbs without a WDH and the trailer tongue weight of a 9K boat is probably around 800 to 900 lbs. Not to mention you will most likely exceed your vehicle payload, rear axle rating, and total combined weight before your towing capacity.

 

[family affair]

I honestly don't mean to rain on your message, but your statements are not correct.
From Ford's towing guide:

Yes, I know it's only an image. I just want to set the record straight for others.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

There's a big difference between whether something can be done vs whether something should be done. Can a pickup truck with a 10k lb tow rating likely pull over 15k lbs of total weight? It depends, but yeah probably, especially if it's a newer vehicle with fewer miles on it, and you're driving a limited distance on flat, dry roads. Should a pickup with a 10k lb tow rating pull over 15k lbs of total weight? Imo... hell no, or at least not for any long distances. If you're going less than a couple of miles from point A to point B, with minimal stops and it's all flat, dry pavement then sure, that can probably be done somewhat safely as long as you're taking it slow, allowing extra room for stopping and so forth. That being said, I sure as hell wouldn't drive something like that for 100-200+ miles or more on highways, up mountain passes or roads with steep hills or inclines/declines. Like the SUV towing the boat/trailer in the above picture shows, it can be done as it obviously got to the boat ramp. That being said, should they have done what they did? Not at all.

 

[Capt Tom]

I honestly don't mean to rain on your message, but your statements are not correct.
From Ford's towing guide:
View attachment 32775
Yes, I know it's only an image. I just want to set the record straight for others.

For discussion sake, maybe you can explain more. This is a pic I took of my truck hitch. Without a WDH it is only rated for 5K with a tongue weight of 500 lbs.

 

[Wild blue]

This guy didn't leave enough "wiggle room".....

I’m surprised that isn’t a Subaru, I guess I’ll stop towing my 272 with my wife’s edge

 

[family affair]

It's tough to explain without writing a book, but those numbers are derived off of the SAE J684 towing standards and are most applicable to travel trailers (TT). They are generally conservative. Your hitch won't fail at 501 lbs or 700 lbs for that matter. They are guidelines that Ford came up with that take into consideration many factors for different truck configurations. You will see the same tag on a single cab short bed truck or a crew cab long bed, 4x4, 4x2, etc.
I tow our 10k lbs Islander with an 2018 f150 max tow. It's rated for 12800 lbs. My payload is 1640. It pulls and handles beautifully, but took some work to get the right balance of tongue weight, axle position, trailer angle, etc.
If I were hauling a TT I would follow the standards closely, but would make changes suitable for my application.
Boat trailers (especially with torsion axles) don't handle well with high tongue weights. Mine is only around 5%. The manufacturer says 7% max. At 7% it swayed like a SOB! The truck road terribly because the leaf spring was excessively deflected allowing axle wrap to make the spring assembly shudder. No bueno! At least that's my best guess. Now, aside from my rapidly moving gas gauge, I can sometimes forget the boat is behind me.
Short of the long, Ford really covers their rear with their ratings. You can safely do more, but you need to understand limitating factors. I don't exceed my payload, I actually know my tongue weight, my tires are correctly inflated and my engine and transmission have plenty of cooling capacity.
How many pages am I up to?

 

[Capt Tom]

It's tough to explain without writing a book, but those numbers are derived off of the SAE J684 towing standards and are most applicable to travel trailers (TT). They are generally conservative. Your hitch won't fail at 501 lbs or 700 lbs for that matter. They are guidelines that Ford came up with that take into consideration many factors for different truck configurations. You will see the same tag on a single cab short bed truck or a crew cab long bed, 4x4, 4x2, etc.
I tow our 10k lbs Islander with an 2018 f150 max tow. It's rated for 12800 lbs. My payload is 1640. It pulls and handles beautifully, but took some work to get the right balance of tongue weight, axle position, trailer angle, etc.
If I were hauling a TT I would follow the standards closely, but would make changes suitable for my application.
Boat trailers (especially with torsion axles) don't handle well with high tongue weights. Mine is only around 5%. The manufacturer says 7% max. At 7% it swayed like a SOB! The truck road terribly because the leaf spring was excessively deflected allowing axle wrap to make the spring assembly shudder. No bueno! At least that's my best guess. Now, aside from my rapidly moving gas gauge, I can sometimes forget the boat is behind me.
Short of the long, Ford really covers their rear with their ratings. You can safely do more, but you need to understand limitating factors. I don't exceed my payload, I actually know my tongue weight, my tires are correctly inflated and my engine and transmission have plenty of cooling capacity.
How many pages am I up to?

Thanks, that is a lot of boat there. Make sure your trailer brakes are working properly every time you get on the road.

 

[family affair]

Thanks, that is a lot of boat there. Make sure your trailer brakes are working properly every time you get on the road.

If you buy a newer Loadrite they have a built-in trailer brake notification feature. Every time you step on the brakes you can hear them squeal even with the windows up and AC on!

 

[DennisG01]

Family, I agree with you. One can follow the specs blindly and, of course, there's nothing wrong with that. But on the flip side, I know what is safe from not only personal experience but from working in the marine industry for nearly 35 years. I've owned many different vehicles and the business has owned many different 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. ALL of them, especially the business trucks, have been put to hard work their entire life. That's what they do - they pull boats around. NONE of them have had an upgraded hitch and NONE of them use a WD system as it's too hard to get it to work properly with surge brakes. NONE of them have EVER had a hitch failure. There's no question that a WD system is ideal - but it's just not practical and, not necessary for safe operation with a COMPETENT driver when trailering at/near max weight (and sometimes a bit more!). A WDS would make a competent driver even more competent, though, of course - or at least it would give that person have a more comfortable ride.

Now, some may say that these hitches have never been tested. Nope, they had their fair share of testing from hard use including hard braking or swerving to avoid a problem. In fact, I ALWAYS put a new-to-me trailering vehicle through some extreme emergency swerve maneuvers (in a safe area). I want to know how the vehicle feels under extreme conditions BEFORE I get in a situation that warrants the extreme swerving. And when I say extreme - I mean it. I swerve progressively harder and harder and eventually end up at a level where most people would ask me to stop and let them out. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn in any way... just to try and explain as best as I can. No hitch failures.

Oh... and the many, many, MANY customers of the shop... I've only ever seen one person using a WDS. No hitch failures. So, yes, one can follow the specs - but if you remove the blinders and look to real life experience... there's a whole 'nother world out there

 

[DennisG01]

If you buy a newer Loadrite they have a built-in trailer brake notification feature. Every time you step on the brakes you can hear them squeal even with the windows up and AC on!

I bet there's something going on with one of your brake pads. That shouldn't happen.

 

[grunt]

I've towed trailers all of my life...dump trucks with floats...pickups with boats and enclosed trailers...best all around pickup nowadays is a 3/4 or 1 ton 4wd pickup with a diesel engine...duallys tow better than single rear wheeled trucks...1/2 ton pickups with gas engines are just for small boats and trailers no matter what they claim

 

[family affair]

I bet there's something going on with one of your brake pads. That shouldn't happen.

After replacing nearly the entire brake system they aren't as bad, but I don't know if it is because the parts are better, the brakes aren't broken in, or the anti squeal I put on the back side of the pads. Time will tell.