Towing Grady with Jeep

[Mustang65fbk]

Mustang - I stopped reading your response when I saw you misunderstood and/or misquoted me. I used the term "near gross" and you decided I meant "at or over it's maximum tow rating"

That's not what I meant or said, you are wrong.

I didn’t misquote anyone, I’m just copying and pasting your previous comments. You’re saying one thing, then saying another and then you’re trying to change up your stance on the matter. In post #17 you said that “If the rig weighed 7199 I wouldn't worry. The 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in.” Then, with your comments in post #27 which I again copied and pasted “I didn't advocate to exceed the rating, only that being at the rating has never been an issue for me.” So which is it? You said before that you wouldn’t worry about 7199 and that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in. Then you said you didn’t advocate to exceed the rating.

You’re going back on what you said previously, or are trying to, and you’re giving people incorrect as well as unsafe information and/or opinions in that they can safely tow a vehicle that’s 1lb under the maximum tow rating and that somehow the “7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in.” Really? I’d love to hear more about this and where you obtained these facts.

The bottom line is that you’re telling people it’s safe to tow a boat/trailer or whatever at or above the tow vehicle’s maximum tow rating. Which if the OP or someone else took what you said with absolute certainty without doing anymore research they could very much be putting themselves and others in danger. There’s a reason why manufacturers have specific numbers for maximum tow ratings and that’s for keeping their customers safe as well as to avoid any potential legal issues or lawsuits.

 

[TopsulTime]

I didn’t misquote anyone, I’m just copying and pasting your previous comments. You’re saying one thing, then saying another and then you’re trying to change up your stance on the matter. In post #17 you said that “If the rig weighed 7199 I wouldn't worry. The 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in.” Then, with your comments in post #27 which I again copied and pasted “I didn't advocate to exceed the rating, only that being at the rating has never been an issue for me.” So which is it? You said before that you wouldn’t worry about 7199 and that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in. Then you said you didn’t advocate to exceed the rating.

You’re going back on what you said previously, or are trying to, and you’re giving people incorrect as well as unsafe information and/or opinions in that they can safely tow a vehicle that’s 1lb under the maximum tow rating and that somehow the “7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in.” Really? I’d love to hear more about this and where you obtained these facts.

The bottom line is that you’re telling people it’s safe to tow a boat/trailer or whatever at or above the tow vehicle’s maximum tow rating. Which if the OP or someone else took what you said with absolute certainty without doing anymore research they could very much be putting themselves and others in danger. There’s a reason why manufacturers have specific numbers for maximum tow ratings and that’s for keeping their customers safe as well as to avoid any potential legal issues or lawsuits.

Completely wrong again. Surely you know simple numbers and that 7199 is less than 7200. You are quoting me, reading me, then using your own thoughts/words.

Read what I wrote again and again til you can see nowhere did I say exceeding the limit was ok. I said, and still maintain 1 lb. under gross is fine.

I do wonder one thing about your comments. Where did you pull 80% from? Why do you think 80% of gross is ok? How do you know that number is not 65%? It seems you make up stuff just like you say I do.


No matter how many times you say it, if it's something I didn't post, it just isn't true. Sorry but that's just how it is.



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This is a figment of your imagination :

The bottom line is that you’re telling people it’s safe to tow a boat/trailer or whatever at or above the tow vehicle’s maximum tow rating.

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You can't find that I wrote that. What you can find is I said 1 lb. under gross is fine and I never said over is fine. You have confused me with someone else.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Completely wrong again. Surely you know simple numbers and that 7199 is less than 7200. You are quoting me, reading me, then using your own thoughts/words.

Read what I wrote again and again til you can see nowhere did I say exceeding the limit was ok. I said, and still maintain 1 lb. under gross is fine.

I do wonder one thing about your comments. Where did you pull 80% from? Why do you think 80% of gross is ok? How do you know that number is not 65%? It seems you make up stuff just like you say I do.


No matter how many times you say it, if it's something I didn't post, it just isn't true. Sorry but that's just how it is.



////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This is a figment of your imagination :

The bottom line is that you’re telling people it’s safe to tow a boat/trailer or whatever at or above the tow vehicle’s maximum tow rating.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

You can't find that I wrote that. What you can find is I said 1 lb. under gross is fine and I never said over is fine. You have confused me with someone else.

You never said anything about gross numbers in your first comment, go back and read what you actually posted lol. It’s post #17 if you need some help finding it. So you’re saying that 1lb under your maximum towing capacity you’ll be fine but adding one extra pound more is going to tip the scales or what actually are you saying? Do you even know what you’re trying to say at this point. You said before that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in, which implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to go over those numbers. And then you mention later that being at the numbers has ever been an issue for you, but that you don’t condone exceeding them, which again implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to meet the maximum tow rating.

To answer your question about the 80% figure, it’s a well known general rule of thumb, ever thought of doing a quick 5 second Google search? How about you answer my question now… how did your answers change from the 7200 having a lot of safety built into it to then claiming that you never suggested that people exceed the limits? If you were a firm believer of not exceeding the limits, you wouldn’t do so yourself nor tell others essentially that the numbers aren’t accurate. You also admitted you wouldn’t worry if the rig weighed 7199lbs, so does that mean you would worry if it weighed 7200lbs, or 7201lbs? When would you start to worry… in your expert opinion of course

 

[blindmullet]

I worry most about wheelbase and brakes when it comes to a tow vehicle. The tow numbers are for commercials--lol. The scariest tow vehicle I have ever used was actually a Jeep--but it was a Wrangler. Those belong to the 40 year old women going through a life crisis or moving to Florida. lol

 

[TopsulTime]

You never said anything about gross numbers in your first comment, go back and read what you actually posted lol. It’s post #17 if you need some help finding it. So you’re saying that 1lb under your maximum towing capacity you’ll be fine but adding one extra pound more is going to tip the scales or what actually are you saying? Do you even know what you’re trying to say at this point. You said before that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in, which implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to go over those numbers. And then you mention later that being at the numbers has ever been an issue for you, but that you don’t condone exceeding them, which again implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to meet the maximum tow rating.

To answer your question about the 80% figure, it’s a well known general rule of thumb, ever thought of doing a quick 5 second Google search? How about you answer my question now… how did your answers change from the 7200 having a lot of safety built into it to then claiming that you never suggested that people exceed the limits? If you were a firm believer of not exceeding the limits, you wouldn’t do so yourself nor tell others essentially that the numbers aren’t accurate. You also admitted you wouldn’t worry if the rig weighed 7199lbs, so does that mean you would worry if it weighed 7200lbs, or 7201lbs? When would you start to worry… in your expert opinion of course

I'm starting to think you are on drugs.

"You never said anything about gross numbers in your first comment"

In my 1st reply to this thread on the 1st line I mentioned 7200lbs.


Ratings are there for a reason. My position is there's safety built into that number therefore it's safe to tow not only at 7199 but right at 7200 as well. If you don't agree then tow a 21'er with a F350, I don't care.


"You said before that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in, which implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to go over those numbers."

It does not imply that at all. AGAIN!!!!! I never said it's ok to go over the max rating.

I'M OF THE OPINION IT IS OK TO GO RIGHT UP TO THE MAX RATING BECAUSE i HAVE REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE (SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN) THAT HAS TOLD ME SO OVER AND OVER



EVERYONE: DO NOT EXCEED YOUR MAX TOW RATING!!!


I know we don't agree but is the above clear enough for you?

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I'm starting to think you are on drugs.

"You never said anything about gross numbers in your first comment"

In my 1st reply to this thread on the 1st line I mentioned 7200lbs.

But we don't know what the final weight of the trailer and boat will be, we're just speculating here and have to go off what the GW website tells us. You're suggested earlier that if it's 1lb under the 7200lbs that you "wouldn't worry about it" and that there's "safety built into that number" but what, now there's not "enough safety built into that number" to be fine at 7201lbs? That's not very much safety built into it if you can't go 1lb over the max tow rating lol.

Ratings are there for a reason. My position is there's safety built into that number therefore it's safe to tow not only at 7199 but right at 7200 as well. If you don't agree then tow a 21'er with a F350, I don't care.

Again, I'd love to see your proof or evidence for there being "safety built into that number"... I'm not saying that you need an F-350 to tow a 21'-22' boat but if there's "safety built into that number" that makes me think that there's some "wiggle room" to to speak or cushion to give you say a couple hundred pounds over the max rating. Which I don't agree with at all

"You said before that the 7200 lb rating has a lot of safety built in, which implies you’re of the opinion that it’s ok for yourself or others to go over those numbers."

It does not imply that at all. AGAIN!!!!! I never said it's ok to go over the max rating.

I'd argue that is very much what it says... that's basically like saying "well the max is 7200 but there's a lot of safety built in" which if the manufacturer said that, then that would make me think that it's ok to go slightly above the max ratings. Hearing it from a consumer though makes me think they don't know what they're talking about.

I'M OF THE OPINION IT IS OK TO GO RIGHT UP TO THE MAX RATING BECAUSE i HAVE REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE (SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN) THAT HAS TOLD ME SO OVER AND OVER

Good for you... I've done 3 cross country road trips and have well over 20k miles of towing boats on trailers, so I'd say that what I lack in years of towing, I've more than made up for with distance and mileage with towing.

EVERYONE: DO NOT EXCEED YOUR MAX TOW RATING!!!

There we go. Ding, ding, ding.

I know we don't agree but is the above clear enough for you?

Eh I think it's more just the fact that you don't want to be wrong or lose an argument to someone that's probably half your age.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I worry most about wheelbase and brakes when it comes to a tow vehicle. The tow numbers are for commercials--lol. The scariest tow vehicle I have ever used was actually a Jeep--but it was a Wrangler. Those belong to the 40 year old women going through a life crisis or moving to Florida. lol

Haha! Around here it seems like there's one of three different groups of people that have Jeeps. There's definitely a lot of women that own them and are going through a midlife crisis. There's the younger crowd in their late teens to 20's who go out and get their first job and blow it on a $30k+ rig that they can't afford. And then there are the ones that think it'll make them a redneck or an expert at rock climbing/crawling. Yet then they go out and flip it over because it's top heavy and not meant for the extreme conditions you think it's meant for.

 

[TopsulTime]

But we don't know what the final weight of the trailer and boat will be, we're just speculating here and have to go off what the GW website tells us. You're suggested earlier that if it's 1lb under the 7200lbs that you "wouldn't worry about it" and that there's "safety built into that number" but what, now there's not "enough safety built into that number" to be fine at 7201lbs? That's not very much safety built into it if you can't go 1lb over the max tow rating lol.

Again, I'd love to see your proof or evidence for there being "safety built into that number"... I'm not saying that you need an F-350 to tow a 21'-22' boat but if there's "safety built into that number" that makes me think that there's some "wiggle room" to to speak or cushion to give you say a couple hundred pounds over the max rating. Which I don't agree with at all

I'd argue that is very much what it says... that's basically like saying "well the max is 7200 but there's a lot of safety built in" which if the manufacturer said that, then that would make me think that it's ok to go slightly above the max ratings. Hearing it from a consumer though makes me think they don't know what they're talking about.

Good for you... I've done 3 cross country road trips and have well over 20k miles of towing boats on trailers, so I'd say that what I lack in years of towing, I've more than made up for with distance and mileage with towing.

There we go. Ding, ding, ding.

Eh I think it's more just the fact that you don't want to be wrong or lose an argument to someone that's probably half your age.

Obtuse


I'll let you get the last word, everyone knows you will.

 

[nuclear]

Obtuse


I'll let you get the last word, everyone knows you will.

You do realize you are doing the same thing right?

How about both of you just stop, you said your points, move on.

 

[Lt.Mike]

Yup, this thread turned into sad pissing match. Enough to make Facebook proud .

 

[SmokyMtnGrady]

I am a long haul trailerer or is it trailer tower ? Either way on average I make 2 trips to Florida a year towing from NC. It's close to a thousand miles to my favorite local boat ramp in Key Largo . Dennis hit the nail on the head. Towing is easy. Stopping is the hard part.

I think your Jeep can handle it towing it. The transmission life may be shortened but it will pull that boat. Maybe you should invest in some electric over hydraulic braking systems on the trailer and put brakes on all 4 axles . In fact I would just order an Owens and Sons trailer in St. Pete and have them put 4 stainless Kodiak brakes on that trailer and maybe even consider upgrading the wheels to 15 inch load range E Good.Year Endurance tires . Do NOT skimp on the brakes , do not put anything but Kodiak Deesmsx stainless calipers on any trailer you buy . Crappy brakes ,sticky and frozen calipers and pistons on brakes cause blow outs due to over heating .

Trust me I have been stranded on 95 with cheap running gear on trailers especially stuff from Tie Down. Buying the most expensive trailer you can afford like Owens Load Master, Ameritrail will be worth every penny you pay especially going long distances .

I trailer with as little fuel as I can. I trailer with my water tank empty.

Again trailering is easy . Stopping is the hard part. The right trailer with the best brakes is the way you want to go.

 

[TopsulTime]

It did turn into a pissing match but I'll defend myself when someone is putting words in my mouth or misunderstanding my meaning. I never said anything except you are ok "UP TO THE LIMIT".


Here is an expert response from the website E-Trailer, it backs up my position and while he mentions it's not ideal to be at max it's due to wear and tear on the vehicle...NOT SAFETY:


Question:

I have a 2009 yukon xl denali rated for 7900 lbs. The flagstaff travel trailer Im looking at weighs in at right around 7060 lbs, leaving me 840 lbs of gear and bodies if i understand correctly. Do i need to look for something smaller? 2 adults, 4 kids and a dog will eat up most of that 900 lbs. Answers seem to be all over the place, everyone is an expert. The general watercooler consensus is yeah you can pull it, but it might struggle up hill. So in short, do i need to allot myself 1300, 1500, 1800 lbs? for family camping? Or will the denali prob be ok?
asked by: Eric
Expert Reply:
The answer to your question is yes, As long as you are under the specified weight limit of your vehicle's maximum towing capacity and maximum tongue weight rating, then you can physically tow the trailer. The max tongue weight for your 2009 GMC Yukon Denali is 600 lbs. without a weight distribution system and 1,100 lbs. with a weight distribution system.

To be sure you are not exceeding the weight capacity of the vehicle with your loaded ready to tow trailer with all additions included, you can take this setup to a nearby weight station for an exact calculation.

However, as a general rule of thumb, it is not ideal to be at the very top end of your vehicle's weight capacity as this will further strain the vehicle's suspension and components wear life.

If you do decide to tow the trailer with your Denali, I strongly recommend the use of a larger transmission cooler in addition to a weight distribution system or rear suspension enhancements such as the Equal-i-zer weight distribution system, Firestone airbags or upgraded Timbren bump stops. Suspension kits may help level the vehicle however will not add towing capacity.

I have included a review video of the Equal-i-zer weight distribution system, Timbren stops and Firestone air bags for you.
expert reply by: Conner L


From 5th Wheel ST.com: It seems the 80% mentioned above just doesn't hold water.

Other Simple Rule Versions​

• Another RVer provided this version of an 80% rule. They suggested "80% of the GCWR". Sorry, this version will fail too because there is no difference in the results between the two rules.
• Some RVers have also suggested to never exceed 80% of the tow vehicle's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The testing standard imposed by NHTSA for brakes already includes the capacity to stop at the GVWR and considers emergency stopping conditions.
• Occasionally, a 70% rule is used. While the 70% rule may work most of the time, this rule may overly limit a trailer too much. Therefore, the trailer buyer could lose an opportunity to buy a trailer that would not exceed the vehicle's realistic vehicle towing capacity (RVTC).

Most of the major truck manufacturers are now using SAE J2807 as the standard for calculating GCWR and TWR, I don't think having a buffer is any longer necessary. With today's modern standards, I don't see any reason not to tow up to the calculated max allowable for a tow-ready vehicle. To learn more about SAE J2807, click here.

Friends, anytime someone suggests simple rules like these, take it with a big grain of salt. If a simple rule is not correct 100% of the time, it is worthless and may place you in a situation you may regret or prevent you from getting the dream trailer safe for you to tow.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

However, as a general rule of thumb, it is not ideal to be at the very top end of your vehicle's weight capacity as this will further strain the vehicle's suspension and components wear life.

^^^^ All that needs to be said right there. Thanks for proving my point!

 

[TopsulTime]

^^^^ All that needs to be said right there. Thanks for proving my point!

Well, hell, this is the first time I knew your point. All along I thought you were saying it's dangerous. So, you don't think it's dangerous to tow at or below max just that it's hard on the vehicle. We agree then.

I've never experienced any suspension damage or wear when I'm towing more often, the only thing I do more often is engine and transmission oil changes.


I'm glad we both know it's not dangerous to tow right up to max. As that standard I quoted previously, max load braking IS taken into account. I'm glad you learned something.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Well, hell, this is the first time I knew your point. All along I thought you were saying it's dangerous. So, you don't think it's dangerous to tow at or below max just that it's hard on the vehicle. We agree then.

I've never experienced any suspension damage or wear when I'm towing more often, the only thing I do more often is engine and transmission oil changes.


I'm glad we both know it's not dangerous to tow right up to max. As that standard I quoted previously, max load braking IS taken into account. I'm glad you learned something.

I'm shocked that for a guy with 36 years of towing experience that you need to be taught something new, but I guess I'll try and explain it in an easy enough way from a guy that just turned 36 last week. You quoted I'm assuming an employee from the E Trailer website that talked about how "it is not ideal to be at the very top end of your vehicle's weight capacity as this will further strain the vehicle's suspension and components wear life." When you do that, you wear down the suspension and steering components for things that can break or fail prematurely like your axles, bearings, tires and so forth. Most importantly of the things that you'll wear down or that will fade prematurely would be the brakes since, go figure, they are what make you actually stop. Especially if you're like the OP where you're at or even above the max tow rating and you're traveling almost 250 miles round trip and are doing so multiple times a year. That can definitely make things become extremely dangerous if you're not inspecting your brakes, as well as everything else, every time and go on multiple 250 mile round trips every year. Because let's be honest, if you're "skimping" on getting the appropriately sized tow rig and are too cheap to care about abusing the rig you've got, I can guarantee you aren't going to be looking at the brakes, tires and all of the other suspension, steering and other vital components every single time you tow the boat. Which, as stated above can be extremely dangerous. Also, as stated numerous times before, if you're going to your local launch that's right down the road and it's flat and dry the whole way with plenty of distance to stop, then you'll be "ok". At this point I will bow out and I'll let you get the last word, everyone knows you will.

 

[family affair]

Conflicts with forum members, excessively long posts for relatively simple questions - welcome to January on the boating forums!

 

[Mustang65fbk]

Conflicts with forum members, excessively long posts for relatively simple questions - welcome to January on the boating forums!

Going a little stir crazy over here lol

 

[family affair]

Going a little stir crazy over here lol

Amen brother!

 

[blindmullet]

max load braking IS taken into account.

I would like to see that test! Yep, it eventually stopped!!

 

[Hookup1]

I have a 2018 Hemi V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee trailhawk. I’m planning to purchase a 2022 GW 235 on a aluminum load rite trailer. Jeep has 7200 max towing capacity. What are your thoughts about safely towing the boat with the Jeep? I will be going mostly on highway about 7-10 times a year and some we’ll managed secondary roads about 7-10 times a year. There are no major inclines besides my gravel drive way which is steep in one area. Thanks.

This thread is out of control. Let me know if you need anything that I can help with. I’m getting ready for my theoretically “impossible” trip to Florida Keys for the 15th year in a row. Talk to you in March.