Towing weight for Seafarer 226

[CJBROWN]

Re: Towing the boat

I also have a Tournament 225 but it has a 9.9 kicker as well as the 250. I tow it with a Porsche Cayenne. The boat tows fine, even over the Cascade mountains. I think you would be fine with a 1/2 ton pickup.

What a horrible thing to do to such a fantastic automobile!!! :shock:

EDIT: BTW, on the new vehicle build quality - I'm not surprised. I looked at a new one at the car show and didn't like it as well as my '03. But they are more streamlined, a 'cleaner look' if you will, and the motors have been updated quite a bit. With zero % financing it makes them pretty attractive, although I'd probably still go a couple of years old. The updated motor in the 2004-1/2 up don't have the injector failure problem.

The guys with them on the diesel forum with the new ones are also complaining about mileage - they don't get near what the older ones did without all the smog equipment. I guess the new particulate filter is a real power hog, and some of them are pulling them off and reprogramming them even tho it voids the warranty.

Compared to a Toyota??? No way dude! You said you have a 6500 tow rating, a Duramax is pretty close to 15,000. I'd say there's an obvious difference there.

Would I tow my boat with a half ton? Yes. If it was heavier? No. At least not for long distances or over mountains.

 

[magicalbill]

CJ
My 6.7 Cummins gets 7-8 MPG at 70MPH.
Slow down to 60 or below, jumps to 10-11MPG.
Same with Jason's Duramax.
This is towing my 232 Gulfstream,10,100 lbs.

I still say 3/4 or more to pull a Seafarer. Mine, back when I had it, weighed 6000 or so, depending on how full the tank was and the amount of gear onboard.
There is a lot to be said for a truck pulling something effortlessly as opposed to a smaller rig with it's transmission and drivetrain and engine being taxed close to it's limits.

 

[mjtyszki]

A half ton pick up is plenty of truck to pull that load. There is no need for anything bigger, it is already big enough.

This boat weighs around 6,000 lbs, the half-ton is rated to tow around 9,000 lbs (Mine is).

Question:
If Tom has a TV stand that supports up to 90 lbs and buys a TV that weights 60 lbs should he:

A. Put his new TV on his current TV stand?
B. Purchase a new (expensive) TV stand that holds up to 150 lbs?
C. Or go Trout fishing with 120 lb Test mono?
:roll:

 

[CJBROWN]

A half ton pick up is plenty of truck to pull that load. There is no need for anything bigger, it is already big enough.

This boat weighs around 6,000 lbs, the half-ton is rated to tow around 9,000 lbs (Mine is).

Question:
If Tom has a TV stand that supports up to 90 lbs and buys a TV that weights 60 lbs should he:

A. Put his new TV on his current TV stand?
B. Purchase a new (expensive) TV stand that holds up to 150 lbs?
C. Or go Trout fishing with 120 lb Test mono?
:roll:

Placing a TV on a shelf in a static state is a poor comparison. People on this forum ask for advice based on the experience of others, so that's what you're seeing here.

The OP was talking about up to 7500 towing weight. The higher the towing weight gets the less adequate a smaller truck will handle the task.

You may have one rated for up to 9K however I have seen burned up diffs, trans, and brakes on half-ton trucks towing that kind of weight. I personally would not tow 9Klbs with a half ton truck - you can if you want. Don't forget the fine print in that rating - load leveling hitch, deduct for cargo and passengers, etc., etc. Manufacturers ratings tend to be a bit exagerated and not real world applicable.

For 7500lbs, a half ton will do it but any driver will be a lot happier and more confident with a 3/4 ton truck. It's getting to be a lot of weight back there - that's all we're saying.

Reminds me of the saying, 'just because you can doesn't mean you should.'

 

[mjtyszki]

Point taken, however, it can seem a little scary to someone new to trailering to hear that their truck can only handle their load for a few miles.

I do agree that it would always be nicer to have a bigger and better truck, but those without the cash to get that truck should not be discouraged by the thought that their equipment is inferior and sub-par. Perhaps rather than focusing on the ideal set-up to tow, these conversations should be more directed to the problem at hand. If someone states that they have a 1/2 ton pick up and the need to pull XXXX amount of weight then the conversation should be based around what they can and cannot do with their rig.

To say that this guy is only safe towing a couple of miles to the launch is an understatement. He can tow reasonable distances without problem. I just think that we should give people pointers such as encouraging routine matainance, and overall saftey for that persons paticular problem.

We can tell people that they would tow better with a bigger truck all we want but it doesnt seem to do much for their problem. If someone asks for advice about how to patch a hole in their boat I don't think we would be telling them that they would be better off buying a new boat.

Bottom line is that the 1/2 ton is not the "ideal" rig, but it will do the job. You will have to be more cautious than those with the larger trucks and you may have more mainainence and repairs, but the job will get done.

CJBROWN: Thanks for calling me out on that; I guess I was getting a little irritated and came off like a smart ass.

 

[magicalbill]

mjtyszki..
This is true.. I will admit that it's easier for me to spend someone else's money rather than mine.

I would like to throw in one more concept.

I don't think it's wise to make truck/towing judgments strictly by the numbers given from the factory or an owner's manual.
Toyota now says you can change oil every 7000 miles as opposed to the 3000-interval that I've always adhered to...I don't believe them.
The same owners manual will say 1/2 tons will pull 9000 lbs. As mjtyscki correctly points out, yes they will, with watchful maintenance, but it's not wrong to ask for real-world experience to balance numbers given by manuals.
Think about down-the-road too. You might want a bigger boat..Most do that I know of. Buying a bigger truck might save you from buying another to pull the bigger Grady you couldn't resist buying.

 

[Grog]

1/2 ton trucks have been inflating their "ratings" over the past few years. They have more HP now then ever but have the same brakes, trans, and differentials. A 2500/250 is MUCH more truck and made for towing/hauling. To tow a few times a year short distances is one thing but doing it weekly will ruin a 1/2 ton truck.

Normally the higher rating is with steeper gears but the same differential, trans, brakes, and frame.

 

[CJBROWN]

There seems to be a difference of opinion on how these various tow-vehicles are put together, and the size and quality of the components that make them heavy duty or not. I wonder if it makes a difference to one's opinion if they've actually wrenched on them and gotten a first hand look and feel for what's involved?

The point that seems to have been lost is that the OP (original poster) was considering what kind of rig to buy to tow his boat. My point was that if you're going to drop the $$ for a nice big SUV, why not get a REAL tow vehicle that will last, give him much better performance, and serve the purpose even if he decides to move up a couple of feet down the road? So the discussion was really never 'should I buy a half ton tow vehicle?', it has been 'will a half-ton tow vehicle work?' I have been trying to answer the former. The purchase cost for either is fairly similar, new or used. I cannot, in my right mind, ever imagine choosing a Durango over a Duramax for his application. I just cannot comprehend that. Nor a Sequoia, or a Tahoe, or a Porsche, even though I just love the latter. If he already had a tow-vehicle and the question was 'will it work?', well that's a different conversation altogether.

If you go with a crew-cab pickup, you have the same 4-doors and passenger carrying ability as an SUV, unless you actually have enough passengers along every time that you actually need the third row of seats. I didn't see that mentioned at all in the original post. And if you're just towing, a short bed works fine making for a shorter wheelbase and they are not so bad for manuevering in parking lots. That is a downside to a bigger truck, they are not nearly as handy as a small car. But then niether is a full sized SUV on a truck-based chassis. Forget about unit-body for towing, they're just not up to it.

I will also say that the guys that drive the big diesel trucks really like them. They've become an enthusiast vehicle in their own right, and can be modified and personalized to whatever the owners desire. You just don't see that with SUV's, at least not nearly as much. There's just not the same 'fun factor'. I think you'll see the SUV going the way of the mini-van. Even more important, a diesel truck will get as good or better mileage than the SUV's all the while having twice the towing and carrying capacity.

The downside is they generally won't fit in a standard garage 8)

 

[Grouper Duper]

Actuallly, the OP stated already that he WANTS an SUV rather than a pickup. Me too.

If I were towing the boat every day (even this relatively small boat), I'd want a big, heavy diesel truck too, but who does that? I need a vehicle that carries five people plus sports gear, luggage, dogs, whatever, all in air-conditioned, weather-proof, easy-access security. I've had pickups, and no combination of bedcovers, toppers or anything will do all that. A van will do it all (better than an SUV actually) but I don't want one.

When I need a car, I have seating for seven. When I need to haul cargo, I've carried a refrigerator once, water heaters, washer AND dryer together once, etc. in the back with the seats folded. When I'm going biking, the bikes and gear all fit in the back, locked up and hidden from view. People and dogs? Inside but separate. Tow the boat or camper, no problem. No other vehicle is as versatile.

If the diff, tranny and brakes are really a worry while towing, I would think I would seen it in eight years (and I know lots of others towing this much with Tundras and other Sequoias). I would expect the Expedtion to do just fine, too (but I'm sticking with what works for me!!!).

Also, as I mentioned previously, I checked lots of specs prior to purchase. You'd be surprised how NOT different some Heavy Duty trucks are compared to the 1/2 tons. Don't be fooled by a bunch more lug nuts! I found plenty of cases where the brakes were identical (but "heavier duty" tires), same spec tranny, etc.

Is a diesel more durable (and of course torquey!) for towing? Certainly! Do I need more than the 100% durability I've experienced for eight years of towing? Can't see why!

I love talking trucks. It polarizes people just like two-stroke/four-stroke or cat hull/mono hull! Makes me proud to be an American to have spirited debates with folks who, like me, are unlikely to change their minds. Let's go fishing. :lol:

 

[Grog]

You'd be surprised how NOT different some Heavy Duty trucks are compared to the 1/2 tons. Don't be fooled by a bunch more lug nuts! I found plenty of cases where the brakes were identical (but "heavier duty" tires), same spec tranny, etc.
:lol:

What?

Just because the rotor fits in the same diameter wheel it doesn't mean it's the same brakes (check how thick the rotors are). Have you even looked at the differentials? The HD's are HUGE. Look at a 1500 frame at the rear axel, now look at a 2500HD in the same place. The 2500 is at about 6" taller at the same spot. The 4L80 trans (base HD trans) will take more abuse than any 1/2 ton trans. How about the Allison, is that a 1/2 ton trans?

Chevy and Dodge use basically the same sheetmetal for their 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks and basically the same interrior (larger humps in 3/4's to fit the transmissions). The same sheetmetal doesn't mean they're the same trucks.

 

[Grouper Duper]

They may all be true, but if those items don't fail from towing a 22' boat (they don't), then who cares? Should we all use at least 1/2 ton pickups to tow a canoe? Overkill is just that; overkill.

 

[Zebco33]

I have 07 4runner V8 w/ tow package, and tranny cooler. I use her to tow my 94 226 all the time, but I never tow farther than 5 miles from my house. If i go on longer trips (rarely - I'll use the expedition. But pound for pound the Toyota V8 kills my expedition in gas mileage. The 4Runner is rated up to around 8k or more, but I like having more mass of the expedition when on longer hauls...just don't want the tail wagging the dog. As soon as I we get that stimulus package to help us on new car purchases, I'll be pickin up the V8 Landcruiser (the new one can hual some weight

didn't vote democrat, but sure gonna take advantage of all the stupid tax rules on the new car purchases.

 

[G8RDave]

I've got to agree with Duper. The OP asked about SUV's. Not Pick ups. You have to assume there is a reason (like he needs/wants the extra seating, deed restrictions won't allow pickups in the subdivision, wants a better ride, wants what most people would consider to be a classier vehicle, towing will be a very small percentage of use for the vehicle, etc). Point being, all the talk about Cummins, Duramax, etc is better saved for a truck forum or a thread asking about strictly tow vehicles.

I've gotta say though, there are a couple F-650 Pick ups in my area that are really cool!