Trailer options - thoughts?

[RussGW270]

The truck specs it's max towing is 9200.

I did add it up, and yes the truck will tow it. The issue comes in, and most people simply do not look and thus never know or realize, not all tow packages are the same.

The "truck" CAN tow 9200lbs, given it's 5.0 liter engine and the 3.55 axle ratio on a Supercrew. If you look under the truck, at the trailer hitch itself, the 2"x2" receiver, it clearly states that it can tow a maximum of 5000lb or 500lbs tongue weight, unless you have a weight distribution hitch, at which point it goes up to 11,600 and 1160, respectfully.

Also, to note, so many folks go to the hardware store or wherever.. see a 2 5/16" ball attached to a slab of metal. It fits in the 2x2 receiver and BAM! they are up and towing... having never looked and saw they added the right "size" ball.. but then go and add a 7000lb boat and they hit a bump and snap it off. Just because they have towed without an issue, does not equate to doing it right.

I love the input, hence why I asked for it.. heh.. and I appreciate it.. but I have a lot of experience as well. I ask to make sure I do not miss things, and make sure I get quality when I add something. I do not always get that.. lol.. I am human.. I have bad luck too .. but.. as I keep stating, this is not just about getting what I need, it is me, with my experience pulling things, trying to make sure I cover all bases.

Personally, this time.. I may be sending back the WD hitch.. it may be more than I care to deal with as air bags I can lower.. the WD.. that may turn out to be more of a pain in the neck than anything else... but, I think adding the 10klb hitch/receiver is key to making this a smoother ride.

The hitch currently on the truck is not rated to handle this boat unless I add a Weight Distribution hitch. Since I have the air bags, I think I can do without the hitch... we will see.

but... (there is always a but.. lol)....if I do not use the WD... and use only the current stock hitch, and something happens.. I guarantee I will not be able to contest if insurance decides not to cover an accident. So.. I will add the 10k hitch and all will be well with the world

Thanks!

R

 

[McCann5225]

So, the truck can only tow 5000 as is because of the receiver hitch that is installed by ford, I didn’t catch that. You will need to go with the wd to bring up the reciever capacity regardless of the truck?
I’ve got a 3500 Chevy and heavy this and that. I see your dilemma. My weak link has been the inserts.

 

[RussGW270]

bingo, yea, you got it exactly.. heh, I added air bags myself, I think that will be just as good as the WD.. the problem is, and this is the "stickler"... it is not a "WD"... technically. Yes, it accomplishes the same thing, and is "splitting hairs".. but, it really is not the same thing.

The receiver hitch itself.. not a huge deal.. that is the least expensive aspect. I can and will replace that and it will take me up to 10k, and all is well with the world.

My issue is the sway control. While people will debate this all day, and they are right to do so.. and can be wrong, the weight is only part of the issue because... think about it.. a sway control only is not just about weight but also applies tension on a the trailer frame.....sorta like a storefront has a slow closing front entrance...


The WD hitches have this function built in, so to speak....

Anyway, like I said.. I am betting all will be fine with the weight adjusted with the air bags and the new hitch....just debatuing if a little redundancy would be worth it. I mean.. I could attach it.. disable the WD aspect... unless the air bags go out.. and then, I already have a backup.... cheaper than fixing or being broken down.

That is what I was debating heh...

R

 

[UCPA111]

Oh....I don't know. My hitch says 21,000 with weight distributing or conventional and 2100# tongue load. LOL! You just need an F350!
Seriously, towing can be such a pain...being you have to balance payload, trailer tongue weight, max GCWR, etc. I got tired of it and said..."we're just going big."
No worries towing my Seafarer....

 

[RussGW270]

I wished I had gotten a f-250 lol...it will all work out.

I did, however, send a text to the shipper that they need to give me a dang date of shipping or reverse the charges. Will give them till tomorrow to answer or I will reverse it myself and get a new shipper asap.

Turns out, they had not added me to the dang schedule...

I am like, "really?"

Seems me telling them "I am not in a hurry.." meant not to schedule me....even though I asked for an update every 3 days.

Told them, "not in a hurry was so they could get a return gig..."

So, they have 2 1-day jobs and a 1-3 day job ahead of me now.. so .. sssooooon.

As for trailer stuff.. since I already have everything, I think I will take a few months to test every which way I can test a WD hitch, the air bags, etc.. and see what it is like with or without them etc.. and document it for the future.

Then.....lol.. sell the dang WD hitch or use it as a loaner....we do that sorta stuff around our neighborhood.. heh

R

 

[McCann5225]

Oh....I don't know. My hitch says 21,000 with weight distributing or conventional and 2100# tongue load. LOL! You just need an F350!
Seriously, towing can be such a pain...being you have to balance payload, trailer tongue weight, max GCWR, etc. I got tired of it and said..."we're just going big."
No worries towing my Seafarer....
View attachment 6909

My thoughts exactly, went big, duramax, cc, long box. With a 38’ horse trailer, a 14k dump trailer and a 24’ equipment tilt bed, towing the little Grady is a little overkill.
Good luck to all and stay safe towing.

 

[wrxhoon]

If you set up is well balanced you will not have any problem with sway. Sway control is not going to fix a bad set up, it is only going to slow it. If the truck squats down when you hook the trailer there are 3 ways to fix it , WDH, heavier springs ( very rough ride when not towing) and air bags . I don't know the capability of your truck because we don't have many here, people that buy then will usually buy f250 or even f350 to tow heavier trailers . We mostly use Landcruisers here rated at 3500 kg or 7700 lbs in your language. GM , Rams and F trucks ( mostly diesel) come from US left hand drive and they are converted to RHD here .

I would definitely install the 10K hitch just in case .

I assume you have electric over hydraulic brakes, in that case if you ever get the wobbles all you have to do is activate the trailer brakes and she will settle. These are a must here on trailers over 2000 kg ( 4400 lb). I have Kodiak all Stainless steel on my trailer , the only maintenance in seven years pad replacement, the rotors wear quicker than none S/S because they are softer.

 

[RussGW270]

@wrxhoon - You'd be amazed at the number of people that actually do have air bags as well as a WD hitch, specifically for the sway control. It makes no sense to me, hence why I am a "try it, test it, document it, test again.." etc kinda guy lol.

See, I am "that guy"...no college degree, was Navy...machinist mate, diesel tech.. went into marketing, mergers, acquisitions, IPO "schtuph", tech field.. and now I am a simple ol Database Administrator....got tired of chasing a buck.

I am the guy they send in with a can of gas and a match to figure out a problem. I do not assume, I do not listen to facts I cannot support. Experience is an awesome tool for direction, but it is a fact that has not been refuted yet

Now, that being said, I totally agree air bags and a WD hitch are overkill, 90% of overkill. The hitch/receiver, that is a different story... to me.. legal mind... heh....if it says it will only quack 5000 times on the top unless you have a WD hitch... well, if you shoot it out of season and did not have a WD license...ya have no leg to stand on, you're losin the duck AND the gun you drove out there with


Air bags distribute weight. That is 'vertical' weight, allowing the vehicle to distribute towing power to the front of the vehicle. It allows it to maintain control better, thus, in the event of sway... it can regain that control easier. Improperly weighted tows can allow sway not because they lack the ability to control the towed object as much as the ability to REGAIN the control due to the weight limit... if that makes sense.

A WD hitch adds a specific mechanical structure that applies and holds actual horizontal tension... the bars. Yes, they are both designed to do the same thing, and having both is not more than a 5-10% difference... probably closer to 5 than 10... but, my theory, and that is all it is, is supported equally, maybe even more, by people that actually have both installed, vs a huge majority that do not have both installed.

So.. since I have all the "parts"... just not the BOAT... here.. lol... I figured, why not test that theory.

Hey, if I can squeeze out even 2% more safety out of towing this thing, at a cost of $300....to me.. that is a hell of a lot better than a $600 reel.

This is not about spending the money on something else, it is about seeing just how much safety I can add to towing this massive weight, with my kids in the car.

And, let's all admit it...all theories aside.. if you could spend $300 and make even 1% more safety for your family... when hauling your boat 3-4 hours... we would ALL jump on it.... right?

So, I test things.. I document.. I check facts and.. this will be like everything else

Maybe then, someone will google this thread and find the results and go, "heck yea!"

Still, wish I had gotten a F-250... but I got 0% financing on the 2018 F-150 and, the thing barely fits in the downtown parking garage in Austin....ggrr.. anyway, having fun configuring so, it is all good


Russ

now.. if they would just bring my damn boat... lol

Oh.. I gotta talk to the trailer place today and ask about those brakes.. good point I forgot yesterday.

 

[DennisG01]

I have not used a WD system, but am familiar enough with them from being around trailering my whole life. My opinion... the air bags are a false sense of security. They will certainly keep the rear suspension at a more normal height, but they are not going to change the geometry of the whole rig. You're still going to have all of the tongue weight on the rear and none of that weight is going to be transferred to the front axle. A WD setup, by definition, 'distributes' the weight more evenly throughout both truck's axles and also the trailer's axles. I would even go so far as thinking that the air bags may take MORE weight AWAY from the front suspension, creating a lighter steering feel and also having less stopping power by essentially having less tire on the road in the front. Air bags, I believe, do have their place - but if I was going to pick one over the other with safety in mind, I would absolutely go with the WD system -- again, assuming you can get it setup to work properly with the surge brake system.

Give the rig a good test when you get the boat. The way I test all of my stuff is to find a open stretch of road with no cars around and, starting at a slow to medium speed, I do emergency braking/swerving maneuvers at increasing severity and speed. Simply driving around like Miss Daisy doesn't cut it You gotta find out the limits in a controlled away, before you NEED it.

 

[RussGW270]

Totally agree, Dennis. This is going to take a lot of testing to make sure I get the right fit for the maximum safety. I do not mind if each “piece” does not solve the whole picture here, the air bags are already installed, I just want to see if each brings some aspect to the table that the other is lacking, even if a small performance increase.

Either way, a fun project.

The only real item that had to be replaced is that hitch/receiver. Any way you slice it, if there is not a fully functional and set up wd...it is limited to 5k lbs. imo, that is nuts, given the low cost of replacing it...but, it is in my living room atm (just got it last night, and will be installed shortly

 

[DennisG01]

Yup, totally agree with your line of thinking. It's fun to 'experiment"!

Did a little quick googling, found this video which I thought was informative.

 

[RussGW270]

Very cool video, thanks. I am curious now if the .45 angle of the WD can be corrected by the air bags, or if it will actually negate the wd benefits.

Will need to ask them heh

 

[RussGW270]

Oh hey, they answered the issue of surge brakes.

So many folks say you cannot use wd with boats due to surge brakes. That is when using chain style wd systems, because the chains are flexible and such.

The newer wd hitches use rigid form for the wd design and thus work with surge brakes.

Pretty good to know. They explain it better though

 

[DennisG01]

Oh hey, they answered the issue of surge brakes.

So many folks say you cannot use wd with boats due to surge brakes. That is when using chain style wd systems, because the chains are flexible and such.

The newer wd hitches use rigid form for the wd design and thus work with surge brakes.

Pretty good to know. They explain it better though

Good to know.

Now, when you get it all set up, do a test to see if it works properly! Find an area and do a 'pedal to the floor' brake test - say 40mph to 0. No need to 'stab' the brakes, but be consistent. Do it with and without the WD attached and EXACTLY the same for both tests. Maybe even do each test 3 times in a row to help validate the date. I'd be curious to know real world results. It's probably something I would do, as well, to ensure the WD system isn't hindering anything.

 

[wrxhoon]

With dual axle trailers it is very important when the trailer is hitched to the truck it remains level so the load is equal on both axles. If you have load sharing suspension it doesn't matter so much. All USA built boat trailers I have seen don';t use load sharing sus.
I have a 228 on a trailer with 15" wheels and I have my truck set up so the ball-mount suits that , the trailer is dead level when hitched . I tow at 100-110 KMH (60-65 MPH) as per speed limits here . I never experienced any sway whats so ever she is always stable at speed. I picked up my new to me 228 a couple weeks ago from port, the trailer has 14" wheels when I hitched it to the truck she sits higher at the front so there is more load on the rear axle this resulted in unstable trailer even at 50 MPH. I knew that could be problematic so I took another ball-mount with me that is one inch lower the result much more stable trailer.
Only with trail and error you will find how to set up the trailer and the tug has a lot to do with it as well, some vehicles suspension is better than others for towing.

 

[RussGW270]

Okay, confirmed via email... not tested, but the hypothesis sounds logical.

If I have airbags, it really does not distribute the weight as well as the WD hitch.
If I have a WD hitch, it controls sway a LOT better, but.. if I use the air bags to bring it fully back to level, then that can and probably will negate the WD benefits some.

So, the real test is to level with a WD hitch, see how much is left... then re-adjust the air bags to bring the truck up that much more BEFORE the WD is set.. so, by adding the WD afterwards, it should compensate and not remove the WD benefits.

Heh.. confusing.. I know.. but, all theory for a week or so. Supposed to rain all weekend.. ggrr.. so, may not be able to get the truck hitch installed. May see if I have room to back it into th.. nope.. camper top.. lol. Ok.. will all have to wait for dryness

R