Trailer Problems

[Skipper]

I am having a problem with reloading my boat on its trailer. When I load the boat to take it out of the water, I crank the winch until the bow rests against the bow winch rollers. That is very hard to do and takes considerable effort. In any event when I drive up the ramp to pull the boat out of the water it settles down and backwards onto the trailer leaving a space of about 1 foot + between the winch rollers and the bow eye. I asked a shop to take a look at the trailer and to try to adjust it to fix the problem. They were not able to do anything to help and had no idea what to do to solve the problem. I have appended a couple of photos so you can see the issue.

I suspect that when I go to load the boat the bottom of the bow touches the trailer bunks making it hard to crank up. As I pull the trailer forward and out of the water, due to gravity and the absence of the surrounding water the boat cannot slide upwards and forward to maintain contact with the bow roller and instead it sits down and back “pivoting” around the point where the bow touches the bunks resulting in separation from the winch post and roller.

I would like to fix this issue as I am very nervous towing the boat on the trailer without a solid connection at or near the bow.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the cause and remedy for this problem. For what it’s worth my thinking is as follows:

1. I could “lower” the pivot point by reducing the bunk height at the front of the trailer and maybe increasing at the rear/stern. That would make it easier to crank and might have the effect of moving the pivot point towards the front of the trailer. One of the things I noticed is that the way the bunks are adjusted now, when the boat is on the trailer the hull sits about 4” above the top inside edge of the trailer fenders. Is that an appropriate height? Assuming I keep the keel from contacting the trailer crossmembers can I lower the bunks and reduce it? What is the minimum space I should leave between the hull and the inside tops of the fenders?

2. It may be that no matter what I do the boat will always sit back and down. Perhaps rather than use a bow roller assembly to secure the front of the boat I can use a “Y” shaped bow stop mounted lower on the winch post to hold the boat. I have appended a photo of a similar device that might work. It is designed to be bolted to the trailer tongue. I would keep the winch where it is presently located but simply remove the rollers and use the Y shaped bow stop to hold and position the boat when loading.

3. Or is this problem easily fixable by simply moving the entire winch post assembly backwards towards the boat? The problem I see with that is the entire boat sits further back on the trailer which reduces tongue weight.

 

[seasick]

If the boat is not very large, I would try not winching the bow eye tight to the bow stop when the boat is on the ramp. Pull the boat out and when on flat ground, tighten the winch until the bow is seated correctly. The boat should be able to slide on the bunks a bit. The hull will not sit in the water like it does on flat ground. The bow will be down and the stern will be higher than normal.
I think that will work our for you.
You might need an adjustment, you may not. Watch other folks at the ramp to see how they haul.

 

[Skipper]

If the boat is not very large, I would try not winching the bow eye tight to the bow stop when the boat is on the ramp. Pull the boat out and when on flat ground, tighten the winch until the bow is seated correctly. The boat should be able to slide on the bunks a bit. The hull will not sit in the water like it does on flat ground. The bow will be down and the stern will be higher than normal.
I think that will work our for you.
You might need an adjustment, you may not. Watch other folks at the ramp to see how they haul.

Unfortunately the boat is large (Marlin 300). It is heavy enough that I can't get it to budge on the trailer after I haul it out at all even with the bunks wet. I am a bit worried about how hard I can crank on the winch too... not sure how strong the bow eye is.

 

[wspitler]

I believe your analysis is correct as to what is happening. My (smaller) scout did the same thing and given the ramp angle, the stern was still floating a bit and when I pulled it out with the truck and it would pivot up and away from the bow roller. I simply moved the bow roller back to meet the bow in the loaded position. The next time I loaded, the boat settled onto the bunks and didn't pivot away. If that has the boat too far aft on the trailer, the axles can be moved to provide the proper tongue weight. I see that you may have to move the winch stand aft or slide the winch up or down to meet the bow properly if you want to try that. With longer trailers, the angle of the boat ramp can cause the stern to float, so this could be a changing target depending on the ramp. I really only use one ramp so I now have mine set to load OK.

 

[family affair]

I had a similar problem with our 27. I tried a number of things and thought I would need to throw money at the problem to fix it, but ultimately didn't need to. Here a couple thoughts:
- your boat is definitely higher off the fenders than mine. It doesn't help because -
- you need to back your trailer deeper. If you have a tough time retrieving it is because your bunks are too high and/or you aren't deep enough.
- because of the above issues you are putting an lot of stress on the winch stand causing a lot of deflection. Once the boat is pulled out of the water the load is reduced and the stand springs back several inches. My Dad noticed this and I thought he was full of it till I had him drive the truck out.
- try raising your winch 2 inches. Pulling upward slightly more can help reduce the load on the winch.

Bar none the biggest improvement is backing down further. If I don't get that right, the boat won't load correctly.

 

[DennisG01]

I've never seen THAT much of a change - where the boat slides/pivots THAT much back aand away from the winch stand. You must really have the stern floating quite a bit?

Are you at a ramp where you can power load? If so, you won't need to have the trailer in the water as far, which will allow the boat to be fully supported on the bunks - the hull will be parralel with the bunks just like it would be out of the water.

Get rid of the carpet and add bunk slicks/guides. They are almost as slippery as rollers and will make loading MUCH easier. I used to own a Sea Ray that was of comparable size to your Marlin. I NEVER had the issue you had. I would power load right up to the bow stop every time and keep the engine in gear with a little throttle to keep it from slipping backwards while my helper connected the winch strap and gave it a couple turns to make it tight.

Bunk slicks will, of course, makes things easier even if you don't power load.

You won't pull out the bow eye. No way that would happen.

Get a power winch - that will also allow you to not have to have the stern floating so much.

Can you post a few pics of the boat on the trailer?

VERY roughly speaking... on the hundred or two bunk trailers that I have used over the years with that many boats (including that Sea Ray)... the proper distance to back in the water is to notice where you are when unloading... just enough to where the back of the boat is just barely "teetering" back and forth. Not quite floating - just rocking a little back and forth. Take a look at where the water is on your wheel well and put the trailer at the same spot when loading.

 

[seasick]

I though some more about this topic and have a ideas. For large hulls, you may need to motor the hull till it hits the bow top. In addition if the ramp is steep, you may need to keep the motor in gear until you tighten the winch cable/strap. This is a two person operation. Don't leave the helm unattended with the motors running.
If when abutting the bow stop, the hull will not lay down without backing away from the stop, either the winch is not holding, the strap if present is stretching, or the bow stop is not in the correct position on the keel.
I also think you might want to take a look at the condition of your bunk coverings. They may be dried out and that makes it hard to slide.
The alignment of the bunks may be incorrect. Cam you post a photo of the boat loaded on the trailer. Take a pic of the whole trailer, winch to transom . I am curious about how is lies on the trailer

 

[glacierbaze]

I have the same issue, and I was sure that I had found a solution. I have a heavy chain binder, like loggers use to secure their load on the trailer, and I snugged that up between the bow eye and the winch post before pulling the boat up the ramp. I was shocked to see several inches of separation when I got to the top of the ramp, from the boat settling, and the load on the bow eye and the winch stand was scary. You’re not going to pull the bow eye out with the winch strap!
My conclusion was, that the forces from the boat settling on the trailer far outweigh any adjustments you can make at the winch stand. So, position your boat on the trailer, and move the winch stand to where it is snugged up on the boat.
Luckily, I am only 200 yards from the ramp, but going down the road with the bow bouncing up and down is the quickest way I know to tear up a trailer.

 

[Meanwhile]

I added UHMW plastic on my bunks. It makes the moving the Marlin easier when it settles back from the bow stop. I've also resorted to a quick stop to move her forward. I tried adding a longer stinger to back in deeper, it still settled back when on flat ground.

 

[Skipper]

I want to thank all of you for your comments and insight. I really appreciate it. The ramp I traditionally use (Campbell River, BC) is quite steep. The stern (transom) is definitely floating high above the trailer (maybe 4 ft.) when retrieving. I have plastic on the bunks but not UHMW (at least I don't think they are). I won't be able to take any photos for about 3 weeks as the boat is in storage and I won't be out there for a bit. I am going to try the various things you have suggested and see if I can't solve the problem. Cheers!

 

[DennisG01]

Steep ramps do make it tougher. Whatever plastic you have should be good enough. Get the power winch. Pull back out a few feet till the boat sits back down on the bunks fully and then powerwinch it in. If you leave it partway in the water (but still touching the bunks) then at least "some" of the weight of the boat is still floating, making it a bit lighter to winch in.

 

[Skipper]

Will do. Thanks!

 

[SouthFork]

Had the same problem with my old 268. If I drove it up on the trailer it was fine but if I winched it up it would do the same thing as yours.

 

[brdawg2001]

I am very familiar with this fun...
1. Most trailers have 4 bolts on that stanchion...if you do not trailer a lot you can just move it forward when out or the water ..
2 move the stanchion forward toward the front..you have just enough weight that is making the trailer flex backward..that may work but will mean more tongue weight

 

[Angler Management]

I have this exact problem also on my Marlin. I agree it's because the stern is still a bit buoyant at the angle of the takeout ramp.

Besides just the angst regarding the boat not being perfect on the trailer and your concerns about it not being solidly connected at that rubber stop, I've noticed a propensity for easier "fishtailing" at higher speeds if it's not snug to the front. I'm assuming that extra weight hanging off the back of the trailer may make just enough difference to induce more instability.

I try my hardest to load at high tide where the ramp isn't as steep, I power load it, and have a buddy crank like crazy.

I also do something that is gonna sound awful... I'm ready to take a beating in the comments. But as soon as I'm on flat pavement in the marina parking lot and I notice it's not snug... I roll forward a bit- very slowly - and hit the brakes. Often this allows me to take up more slack and get the boat to seat. Not recommended with a heavy load like full fuel. And of course nobody in the boat!

And one more thing, once it is as snug as I can get it, I use a tie down from the eye rearward to the first crosspiece of the trailer for additional forward retention to the trailer.

 

[family affair]

To me it's almost frightening how easily a boat will slide forward on wet bunks by hitting the brakes! No shame Angler. Just another trick of the trade.
However, I would think attempting the same thing with dry bunks could do some damage.

 

[DennisG01]

I've done the "hit the brakes" thing many times - nothing wrong with that. I've gone a lot faster than "very slowly", too! Probably 15+ MPH.

 

[Meanwhile]

Talking of additional tie downs, by Angler Management, I had a bolt shear off on my hand winch on a steep ramp. The safety chain pulled through the welded ring like butter. The boat rocked back, and I was almost a Face Book post. We secured as best we could with chain and straps. We drove 5 blocks to a shop and got the winch fixed.

I now use a grade 8 chain from the bow eye to the cross members on my trailer.

 

[seasick]

I have this exact problem also on my Marlin. I agree it's because the stern is still a bit buoyant at the angle of the takeout ramp.

Besides just the angst regarding the boat not being perfect on the trailer and your concerns about it not being solidly connected at that rubber stop, I've noticed a propensity for easier "fishtailing" at higher speeds if it's not snug to the front. I'm assuming that extra weight hanging off the back of the trailer may make just enough difference to induce more instability.

I try my hardest to load at high tide where the ramp isn't as steep, I power load it, and have a buddy crank like crazy.

I also do something that is gonna sound awful... I'm ready to take a beating in the comments. But as soon as I'm on flat pavement in the marina parking lot and I notice it's not snug... I roll forward a bit- very slowly - and hit the brakes. Often this allows me to take up more slack and get the boat to seat. Not recommended with a heavy load like full fuel. And of course nobody in the boat!

And one more thing, once it is as snug as I can get it, I use a tie down from the eye rearward to the first crosspiece of the trailer for additional forward retention to the trailer.

If your tow vehicle suspension is up to snuff and the vehicle has appropriate tow capacity, the most probably reason for fishtailing is too little tongue weight caused by the load being too far back on the trailer. If you can't move the winch post and bow bumper forward, your trailer may be the wrong size.
It is also possible that the hitch tongue has the wrong drop ( or rise) and the trailer is not resting level when loaded.

 

[brdawg2001]

Agrees with seasick...fishtailing is probably because your boat is too far back on the trailer...if you look at No Bail's pic his stanchoin is all the way forward...