Upgrade my Freedom 275 or trade it in?

[mr_mbuna]

I have a 2011 Freedom 275 + Yamaha 350 which has been a good boat for us for the last three years but it's in need of some updates. Before I spend more money on it, I wanted to hear the opinions of other owners on whether it would be better to trade up to something newer or larger.



If we keep the boat, I will get all the seats and bolsters recovered and updated to look more like the v1.5 (2015-2016) or v2 (2017+) seats, get new isinglass, a cover, and update the Simrad display. All together this will cost $20K-$25K. If I repower the boat with twin 200s that will take the cost of upgrades to $60K-$65K.

I can trade the boat in as-is for $70K and then have a few options:

1. Get a 2019 Freedom 275 with twin 200s for $150k-$160k, which would be $65k more than upgrading what I have (not including repower). It's the same boat but I'd get an updated interior (dash, floor plan, seat design), twin engines, and a boat 8 years newer with 1/4 the total hours.
2. Get a 2018 Freedom 285 with twin 250s for $170k-$190k, which would be $90k more than upgrading what I have (not including repower). Reviews say the 285 feels much larger than its specs (1' wider and 1' longer) would indicate, even though the floorplan is effectively the same as the 275. I would get more beam, twin engines, better performance (holeshot and top speed), an updated interior, an aft SunShade, and a newer hull.
3. Get a 2018 Freedom 307 with twin 300s for $200k-$220k, which would be $120k more than upgrading what I have (not including repower). I would get a different class of boat (3.5' longer, 2' wider, 4000 lbs heavier), better performance (holeshot and top speed), an updated interior, an aft SunShade, Helm Master joystick, and a single berth.

Thoughts? Would love to hear from other owners who have cross-shopped or owned the 275, 285, and 307.

 

[Ekea]

hard for us to answer not knowing how you use your boat and the financial situation.

if the current boat meets your needs (size and layout), keep it, upgrade it, and use the extra money for something else.

if the current boat is paid for and you can do the upgrades out of pocket while a newer boat would require a loan, keep the old boat and upgrade.

if the current boat is not meeting your needs (size and layout), upgrade to a larger boat as your finances allow.

if money doesnt matter, choose whatever boat would put the biggest smile on your face.

 

[mr_mbuna]

Good advice that works for everyone, Ekea. You may have a career in politics . Joking aside, you do give me a good set of questions to think through what matters to me:

• I have some money but not unlimited funds. I have to balance my spending between my boating habit, my car-racing habit, and my first child due in March.
• I use the boat for 80% cruising and 20% fishing on the Chesapeake Bay. So a dual console is the right layout (I would also consider an express) and the 275 is big enough from a Beaufort scale perspective; maybe even overkill.
• I do wish my boat had a bit more beam and more seating. When we take friends out, everyone crams into the rear deck so they aren't being anti-social, which means this 27' boat only has comfortable seating for 4-5 people.
• I don't see a lot of incremental value in the additional length of the 307; the 325 seems to be where you see bigger changes with more seating, a full-height windshield, and a starboard berth.
• My slip at home has good depth and shore power.
• I would like to start taking the boat with us to South Carolina once a year. I have a diesel truck that can tow 20k lbs and I'm ok bending the rules a little bit on width but towing something enormous would be nerve-wracking.

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

Let me answer some questions as I am stepped the last days on several boats:
262 EX Edgewater (Express)
306 Canyon (Center Console)
330 Express (Express)
32 Carolina Classic (Express)

1° longer is better, always! Except it will not fit your slip/lift/trailer
2° a Express will have not considerable more space for friends than the Freedom,
it's just a different layout and the cabin steal a lot deck space
3° a Express makes docking more complicated as you or your deckhand has climb to the bow
4° I consider a cabin on a boat smaller than 30" more a cave than useful, but doable for overnighters
5° The 325 will give you what you wish, but at a high price, higher fuel consumption and more complicated towing
6° If towing is a requirement, what I find understandable, then you should get as small as possible to make towing more safe
Well, this depend also on the for me unknown distance you need to reach your destination in SC

Chris

 

[mr_mbuna]

We would tow the boat from Annapolis, MD, to Beaufort, SC, and back. There don't appear to be any clearance issues trailering a 307 (assuming it's 12' 10" tall with a radome). Just a higher risk of developing arthritis from 10-12 hours of white-knuckle driving.

 

[Sardinia306Canyon]

Yep,
10-12 hour with 12K lbs on the trailer is a bit long, maybe splitting in 2 days?
I did 12 hours with my 5500 lbs 30ft RV trailer and a small size Pickup, doable but white knuckles and wasted after arrival.

Consider also beams of 10.7", would be a absolute no-go here in Europe but doable in US.

Chris

 

[JoeB]

I just sold my 285 to an individual who is keeping it on the South River. We did 80% Chesapeake in northern bay and 20% Bahamas. The 285 provides 10X more space than the 275 and we loved it for 7 years. We towed it to Florida every summer and traveled from West Palm Beach to Abaco, Bahamas. Fantastic boat for that trip.
If you only have friends on board 3x summer I would let them cram together. Lot of money to make them comfortable for three hours.
If you want to fish Ocean City offshore I would upgrade to 285 with twins. Many insurance companies will not insure you over 20 miles out with a single engine. check your policy. Most 285s have outriggers which your boat seems to lack.
Another interesting fact. I obtained oversize load permits for pulling my boat. A 365 24/7 for Maryland and individual trip permits for other states. Was I ever stopped? No, but that is not why I bought the permits. Check with your agent and ask him if you were to be in an accident and did not have towing permits, (towing illegally), and were sued for $1 million - would they stand behind you? This is why I bought permits. The 275 does not need them. The other boats you mention do require permits.
Life is short. Buy the bigger boat!
(I think your repower estimates are a little low)

 

[Fishtales]

That's a hard problem to evaluate from afar.
- If you upgrade, you know the boat. If it is solid and has been cared for, that's a big plus. You can get the enclosure from A&J Canvas in Vanceboro NC. They make them for GW. Ship down your existing as patterns. Get the Stamoid and the Strataglass is my recommendation. A little more but very nice and both hold up very well.
- For the seats, it's tougher. I believe Lebroc makes the cushions for GW but they don't sell direct to customers. You could have a local shop make them up. Most good marine upholsters can do a super job. You may be able to do some of them yourself if you know someone handy with a good sewing machine. I did all the bolsters, the aft seat and the companion seat on my boat. Got all the material online and did it with my wife.

 

[mr_mbuna]

- For the seats, it's tougher. I believe Lebroc makes the cushions for GW but they don't sell direct to customers. You could have a local shop make them up. Most good marine upholsters can do a super job. You may be able to do some of them yourself if you know someone handy with a good sewing machine. I did all the bolsters, the aft seat and the companion seat on my boat. Got all the material online and did it with my wife.

I got quotes from more than half a dozen marine upholstery shops. The choice came down to $9K to have them re-covered or $15K to have them modified to look similar to the seat design on new GWs (square shoulders, diamond pattern quilted stitching, etc.). If I spend the money, I'll get them updated.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I think my biggest question would be the "why" to this whole equation? Why upgrade what you've got, is it in dire need of upgrades, are you just wanting to spend some money, etc? If you're considering a bigger boat, I'd definitely take a hard look at the bigger models, and even the 307 Freedom can be found in a 2014 vintage for around $145k-$160k. As mentioned above, also what is your budget? If you're looking for a bigger boat and either want to, or don't mind spending the extra money, I think that would be the route to go. If it were me personally, I think I'd sell your boat as is and then put that money towards something that you actually want. Especially since it sounds like you want to go bigger.

 

[mr_mbuna]

The main motivation is that the seams are coming apart on the seats on our current boat. Then it becomes a slippery slope of upgrades… if you’re going to spend $9k to recover the seats you might as well spend $15k to make them not look like La-Z-Boys, and if you’re going to spend $15k you might as well spend $20k and also get new enclosure and covers and electronics… so should you spend $20k on a 12 year old boat or trade it? If you trade it, what for?

 

[Ekea]

haha, i am definitely NOT cut out for politics. thanks for the extra info about your use

so here is a bit of perspective regarding your first child due in march. a bigger & heavier boat will allow you more boating the next couple years. you would be surprised how much your opinion of what is rough changes when you are thinking in terms of an infant being bounced around. just the minor jolts that adults dont even think twice about will bring you off plane with a little one. because of this, i would not recommend spending money to buy a boat the same size. if you go with a different boat, go bigger. also from now on, you will have at least 1 extra person on every ride and if you already are putting 5+ friends on things might get tight. also, how many total kids do you plan to have?

it seems that there is a nice bump in weight (1500 lbs) with 285 over your current boat along with the foot in length and width. this might be the best all around solution to you. a bit more room, a bit more weight, and not breaking the bank or as intimidating to tow compared to the 307. I would just make sure that you sit in and walk around on a 285 for at least 15 minutes and make sure that you are pleased with the amount of extra room relative to the cost. as you do that, imagine the number of people you will have, and gear you will have on the boat.

also, if you dont have any yet, consider the space that a bean bag chair will take up (ocean tamer) on your current boat and future potential boat. this will be a great option for your kid (not summer 24, as i am sure mom will be holding 100% of the time), but they were perfect for my 2 and 3 year olds this past summer. they give the little ones the best ride when placed in the back and are good for napping as well.

 

[Ekea]

also, as a side note...when buying a PFD for your new kid, try to find the smallest infant one you can (that is obviously still USCG approved). The one we had for my first kid was too big even though it was labeled infant. at 8-9 months old, if we had her in a sitting position, the chest foam pad would rest on her thighs and at the same time push on the under side of her jaw ever so slightly which wasnt very comfortable for her. another brand had the same buoyancy but the chest foam wasnt as tall and gave her chin a bit more room.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

The main motivation is that the seams are coming apart on the seats on our current boat. Then it becomes a slippery slope of upgrades… if you’re going to spend $9k to recover the seats you might as well spend $15k to make them not look like La-Z-Boys, and if you’re going to spend $15k you might as well spend $20k and also get new enclosure and covers and electronics… so should you spend $20k on a 12 year old boat or trade it? If you trade it, what for?

I think the biggest issue would be whether spending $20k on upgrades is going to make the boat worth that additional $20k, or more, which is one of the biggest reasons why people make upgrades to their boat, and that is resale value. I personally don't think that if you put let's say $20k into the boat, especially with seats, bolsters, electronics and so forth... that it's not necessarily going to make the boat that much more valuable. Even if you did put that $20k into the boat and it did raise the value of it up by $20k, you're still just breaking even at that point. Which to me, it's not worth the hassle of doing the upgrades, nor is it worth the risk of potentially losing money or simply breaking even. If you did put $20k into the boat and it raised the value of it up $25k-$30k then I'd say it would be a no brainer and to definitely do the upgrades. IMO there's no reason to put money into something and do upgrades on something to break even, because I would've just sold it before for the lower price, and on top of that, it sounds like you want a bigger boat anyway. So, I'd sell your boat as is or trade it in, and then look at something different.

 

[glacierbaze]

If you put $20,000 into upgrades, then you are probably going to keep the boat a few more years, or until it starts looking tired again. At which point you will not get your money back from the upgrades, much less any profit. The question should be, “Am I going to get $20,000 worth of enjoyment out of these upgrades, before I sell it some years down the road?“
If the main motivation is that the seams are coming apart on the seats on your current boat, have them re-stitched, if the vinyl is still good. . If you can remove and replace them, you should be able to get them re-stitched in the hundreds, not the thousands.

 

[mr_mbuna]

If the main motivation is that the seams are coming apart on the seats on your current boat, have them re-stitched, if the vinyl is still good. . If you can remove and replace them, you should be able to get them re-stitched in the hundreds, not the thousands.

I wish I could... I've talked to a lot of marine upholstery pros and they all say it's impossible to repair. Maybe I should go get some super glue... every professional trade thinks they're a rocket scientist these days.

 

[Fishtales]

I'd go with the basic cream color that GW used for years on the seats. Paying 50% more for something that looks more modern, trust me the material is no better. This seems like a crazy spend to me. It's a boat. It's in some of the worst environmental conditions. They will wear and get abused again. I'd want a quality job with quality materials but I'd want value as well.
The new enclosure is in the same boat. That will run you $3K. For $12K you'll have a great looking boat. You'd likely pay that much for transaction costs for the new boat alone.

The bolsters slide right off once you remove a few screws. The material is stapled to the backer board. Anyone can do those pieces. Fabric Warehouse has all the material and sail thread. Amazon has great closed cell foam, monel staples (get or borrow an pneumatic stapler). The cushions and chairs are trickier but some are quite easy to do- especially if you use existing as a pattern. You'll need a walking foot on the sewing machine if you do it yourself. If not, pay for these. Then get whatever electronics you need. You'll likely be doing this in any case. I really don't see a decision here. Polish up what you've got and go boating.