I removed my spark plugs and fired some fogging oil into the spark plug openings. Hey what the hell, I shined my pen light in there to look at the tops of the pistons as I brought them out toward the firing position. I was pleased with what I found. The tops were fairly clean, and only the outer 1/2" of the pistons had some mild carbon deposits. The deposits were not excessive, and considering the boat was 10 years old when I bought, and didn't have RF running until only last season, that's not bad. I'll keep on using it, I'm a believer now, despite the steep price.
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Use of Yamaha Ring Free - Good Results
- Thread starter hotajax
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For what it is worth......... I have a 1997 yamaha 115 bought new. Once past break in period of 10 hours, I began using synthetic oil (amsoil) exclusively. No ring free or any other additives.
My certified outboard mechanice gives it a thorough going over every two years. Perfect motors and not one single problem. As far as I'm concerned stay away from mineral based oils..... period.
My certified outboard mechanice gives it a thorough going over every two years. Perfect motors and not one single problem. As far as I'm concerned stay away from mineral based oils..... period.
Capt. Ed
Well-Known Member
Ring Free
How about 4 strokes? I've been using it, but always question whether its needed or not on my F225's. Dealer first said not needed, than said it should be used in all Yamaha's.
How about 4 strokes? I've been using it, but always question whether its needed or not on my F225's. Dealer first said not needed, than said it should be used in all Yamaha's.
Think about why ring free is need and recommended by yamaha and other engine manufactures. It is because old traditional oils are paraffin/mineral based. These oils cause piston rings to eventually burn and stick togather due to the carbon deposites created during the firing/burning process of combustion. Synthetic oils due not create burning built up carbon deposited, thus keeping the piston rings to remain free from cynlinder issues.
BobP
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If I'm not mistaken, the quart bottle of ringfree is less than 40 bucks, but good for 320 gallons of fuel.
That's a lot of fuel cost to cover treatment as a preventive measure with just 40 bucks.
For Yamahas under warranty, consider how it would benefit your position using Ringfree and Yamalube per owners manual, just in case, something goes wrong. The most extensive fuel/oil related repair with a 2 stroke is about $7K I'm aware of.
After warranty is over, different story.
I tried the Gunk decarb method, one treatment using Seafoam liquid on the starboard engine, little smoke came out to notice, didn't bother with the port.
That's a lot of fuel cost to cover treatment as a preventive measure with just 40 bucks.
For Yamahas under warranty, consider how it would benefit your position using Ringfree and Yamalube per owners manual, just in case, something goes wrong. The most extensive fuel/oil related repair with a 2 stroke is about $7K I'm aware of.
After warranty is over, different story.
I tried the Gunk decarb method, one treatment using Seafoam liquid on the starboard engine, little smoke came out to notice, didn't bother with the port.
If you think Ring Free is the best way to go, then by all means..........go ahead. I'm just saying that ring-free is not needed using synthetic oil, whether it is auto injection or mix. Synthetic oil is by far superior no matter how you look at it. It will "NOT" void any waranty by using it in any way.
BobP
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You would be surprised what lengths dealers/manufacturers have been known to go to, to deny warranty coverage.
Read about warranty denials at the THT boating forum
The Yamaha owners manual 2 & 4 stroke wording on ringfree as well as oil doesn't agree with what you wrote here.
Read about warranty denials at the THT boating forum
The Yamaha owners manual 2 & 4 stroke wording on ringfree as well as oil doesn't agree with what you wrote here.
BobP
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That's not what the manual reads - the alternative oil statement doesn't mention brands - but conflicts with what you wrote. When buying the motor, ipsofacto, you agreed to the manual provisions on warranty and product performance and usage.
It doesn't say "any TCIII or any brand" can be used. Ask yourself - why it doesn't read that?
Besides, I'm not a lawyer nor care to deal with them unless absolutely necessary.
You will need one to fight the dealer for the $7K powerhead, may cost the same in legal fees. Meanwhile your boat is held captive drydocked, and you have no boat to use.
Irrespective of law on substitute oil brands, you will have to prove the oil in the boat, both in ratings and product quality didn't cause the defect, not them.
That's going to be a big $$ bill to hire an expert to make the case, unless the court declares you as an expert to represent yourself, otherwise the court will not want to hear from you (the courts in my area including small claims).
I'd say $20K minmium to get an expert to submit proof and appear in court, plus expenses.
You are saying full synthetic oil is better for your motor than semi-synthetic? Do you have that in writing from Yamaha?
Ask them to put it in writing, see how they respond.
All they have to say it' s not the OEM recommended oil and certain signs are present in the motor that caused the failure, and wouldn't be there if Yamalube was used, because of the proprietary additives Yamaha specifies uniquely with the oil manufacturer. So called "special blend."
They designed and built the motor not you or your expert, how would you know more than the manufacturer (in court)? This is what the judge will already know.
It doesn't say "any TCIII or any brand" can be used. Ask yourself - why it doesn't read that?
Besides, I'm not a lawyer nor care to deal with them unless absolutely necessary.
You will need one to fight the dealer for the $7K powerhead, may cost the same in legal fees. Meanwhile your boat is held captive drydocked, and you have no boat to use.
Irrespective of law on substitute oil brands, you will have to prove the oil in the boat, both in ratings and product quality didn't cause the defect, not them.
That's going to be a big $$ bill to hire an expert to make the case, unless the court declares you as an expert to represent yourself, otherwise the court will not want to hear from you (the courts in my area including small claims).
I'd say $20K minmium to get an expert to submit proof and appear in court, plus expenses.
You are saying full synthetic oil is better for your motor than semi-synthetic? Do you have that in writing from Yamaha?
Ask them to put it in writing, see how they respond.
All they have to say it' s not the OEM recommended oil and certain signs are present in the motor that caused the failure, and wouldn't be there if Yamalube was used, because of the proprietary additives Yamaha specifies uniquely with the oil manufacturer. So called "special blend."
They designed and built the motor not you or your expert, how would you know more than the manufacturer (in court)? This is what the judge will already know.
BobP
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Tell me how far I'm off-
Legal fee - $400/hr
expert (credentialed PHd) fee, $250/Hr. plus expenses.
??
Legal fee - $400/hr
expert (credentialed PHd) fee, $250/Hr. plus expenses.
??
OK BobP, you win and I won't argue with you over what you beleive.....
As for Capt CMG, amsoil is exactly what I have used exclusively for over 15 years. Greatest oil product around, by far. Call them up and they will offer you the warranty you need if you document and use their oil. I use amsoil in everything I have that requires oil. My father comes from the old school also...... I can't convince him to use a full synthetic either no matter what............
As for Capt CMG, amsoil is exactly what I have used exclusively for over 15 years. Greatest oil product around, by far. Call them up and they will offer you the warranty you need if you document and use their oil. I use amsoil in everything I have that requires oil. My father comes from the old school also...... I can't convince him to use a full synthetic either no matter what............
BobP
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Captkfly, it's not a win / loose situation for me, it never is.
It's lessons learned, and never never forgetting lessons.
What do you think of the Honda corporation? Successful company, well engineered and superior quality products? Top rated in Consumers Rpts?
It wasn't long ago Honda sold cars that experienced premature engine massive failures, both in and out of warranty period.
Honda analyzed the engines and found the cause of failure attributed to sludge, blamed every owner for failure to perform required maintenance, and voided any warranty claim.
The owners showed receipts for oil changes per owners manual schedule.
As it turned out, the great Honda motor company sold sludge factories, not motors, in those cars. The motor design was defective, that's right, defective.
How would you feel if that was your $35K quality car, and how would you fell if Honda blamed you, and then to proceed taking on the Honda corporation?
It wasn't long ago Ford sold cars where the entire top coat of paint peeled off in 2-4 yrs, right down to primer, and would not cover paint restoration (my brother's car one of them). Paint shops wouldn't redo the top coat w/o first stripping off all paint. Very expensive.
Shall I go on?
A similar discussion is going on over at THT with respect to Mobil One in 4 strokes. People don't understand why they are denied approval for using Mobil One in their 4 strokers.
All I'm doing here is offering owners of products under warranty a way to protect themselves from companies, be it the mighty Honda Corporation, or anyone else, from robbing them. Never forget the Honda and Ford product historical events - textbook cases of defrauding innocent buyers.
Unless the oil company you are referring to will pay off a motor failure claim if Yamaha doesn't, or provide legal and expert representation in a court of law, these words "meets or exceeds OEM standards, mean no more than what the ink cost to print them, in a court of law.
They do mean everything, however, in marketing value to the promoters of such products.
Once the warranty is over, as in your case, it doesn't matter whatsover one puts in their gas tank or oil tanks.
If you ever sustain a motor failure under warranty, and call to say you are are taking off the motor to bring it in, the dealer will say they need the entire boat not just motor (??)
If this happens to anyone, PM me and I will instruct you what to do before you bring in the boat, and in case you don't have a clue why they want the boat not just motor -
With respect to DIYers, be sure to keep all receipts for filters, lower unit oil, yamalube, ringfree, anything and everything you buy, you may just be one of those who will have no defense, but those receipts, and all that is left to do is blog away over at THT about mistreatment like the Luhrs, etec, the Hatteras peel and stick hull skin, and a few other threads, and hope for the best.
It's lessons learned, and never never forgetting lessons.
What do you think of the Honda corporation? Successful company, well engineered and superior quality products? Top rated in Consumers Rpts?
It wasn't long ago Honda sold cars that experienced premature engine massive failures, both in and out of warranty period.
Honda analyzed the engines and found the cause of failure attributed to sludge, blamed every owner for failure to perform required maintenance, and voided any warranty claim.
The owners showed receipts for oil changes per owners manual schedule.
As it turned out, the great Honda motor company sold sludge factories, not motors, in those cars. The motor design was defective, that's right, defective.
How would you feel if that was your $35K quality car, and how would you fell if Honda blamed you, and then to proceed taking on the Honda corporation?
It wasn't long ago Ford sold cars where the entire top coat of paint peeled off in 2-4 yrs, right down to primer, and would not cover paint restoration (my brother's car one of them). Paint shops wouldn't redo the top coat w/o first stripping off all paint. Very expensive.
Shall I go on?
A similar discussion is going on over at THT with respect to Mobil One in 4 strokes. People don't understand why they are denied approval for using Mobil One in their 4 strokers.
All I'm doing here is offering owners of products under warranty a way to protect themselves from companies, be it the mighty Honda Corporation, or anyone else, from robbing them. Never forget the Honda and Ford product historical events - textbook cases of defrauding innocent buyers.
Unless the oil company you are referring to will pay off a motor failure claim if Yamaha doesn't, or provide legal and expert representation in a court of law, these words "meets or exceeds OEM standards, mean no more than what the ink cost to print them, in a court of law.
They do mean everything, however, in marketing value to the promoters of such products.
Once the warranty is over, as in your case, it doesn't matter whatsover one puts in their gas tank or oil tanks.
If you ever sustain a motor failure under warranty, and call to say you are are taking off the motor to bring it in, the dealer will say they need the entire boat not just motor (??)
If this happens to anyone, PM me and I will instruct you what to do before you bring in the boat, and in case you don't have a clue why they want the boat not just motor -
With respect to DIYers, be sure to keep all receipts for filters, lower unit oil, yamalube, ringfree, anything and everything you buy, you may just be one of those who will have no defense, but those receipts, and all that is left to do is blog away over at THT about mistreatment like the Luhrs, etec, the Hatteras peel and stick hull skin, and a few other threads, and hope for the best.
BobP, First alittle background. I am a professional pilot having flown professionally for over 36 years and have logged over 18,000 hrs of flying time. This alone does make me an oil expert, but I will tell you this:
All commercial grade aircraft flying today use synthetic oil. All commercial jets from Boeing to Airbus to General Dynamics to McDonnel Aircraft Corp. have been using pure synthetic oil for over 30 years. Why, because it is a superior oil........end of story! Synthetic oil and fuel was being developed and used during WW II by the allied forced and even the nazi's under Hitler were developing synthetic oil. It is vastly superior, just very expensive. As time has gone by, the price is working it's way down to be competitive with mineral based oils. The sludge you mentioned comes from parrafin/mineral based oils because as the carbon is burned under extreme heat it crystalizes and therefore causes sludge to form. This also causes the rings on pistons to stick..........i,e; the need for ring free. And guess who sells ring free........... you guessed it? Your corporation.
Automobile manufactures tried years ago to mandate the oil that you put in you car (many years ago) be made by them. Why, because they stood to make alot of money selling you oil that they said could "only be used in you car" otherwise you would void you warranty. Putting GM oil in your new Ford will not void your warranty. Reason: Congress passed a federal law years ago against doing that. It was a scare tatic just to get you to buy their oil.
Yamaha recommends putting their oil in their products. If you read your owners manuel real carefully, it really does not say anywhere that using another brand of oil will void your warranty. They just strongly, and I mean strongly suggest that you use their oil.
Basically, the Yamaha Corp. has you right where they want you..........
All commercial grade aircraft flying today use synthetic oil. All commercial jets from Boeing to Airbus to General Dynamics to McDonnel Aircraft Corp. have been using pure synthetic oil for over 30 years. Why, because it is a superior oil........end of story! Synthetic oil and fuel was being developed and used during WW II by the allied forced and even the nazi's under Hitler were developing synthetic oil. It is vastly superior, just very expensive. As time has gone by, the price is working it's way down to be competitive with mineral based oils. The sludge you mentioned comes from parrafin/mineral based oils because as the carbon is burned under extreme heat it crystalizes and therefore causes sludge to form. This also causes the rings on pistons to stick..........i,e; the need for ring free. And guess who sells ring free........... you guessed it? Your corporation.
Automobile manufactures tried years ago to mandate the oil that you put in you car (many years ago) be made by them. Why, because they stood to make alot of money selling you oil that they said could "only be used in you car" otherwise you would void you warranty. Putting GM oil in your new Ford will not void your warranty. Reason: Congress passed a federal law years ago against doing that. It was a scare tatic just to get you to buy their oil.
Yamaha recommends putting their oil in their products. If you read your owners manuel real carefully, it really does not say anywhere that using another brand of oil will void your warranty. They just strongly, and I mean strongly suggest that you use their oil.
Basically, the Yamaha Corp. has you right where they want you..........
BobP
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Good points.
You may have noticed I never challenged anyone as to what oil is better than another, only to support the OP's post and to offer advice on consumer protection with respect to warranties.
Tell me this. My HPDIs have a 5 yr unlimited hour Yamaha OEM warranty, now going into the 4th yr.
Why doesn't Yamaha specify a full synthetic like ETEC does to protect their motor ? After all it's their motor while under warranty.
And Yamaha would make more on the higher priced full synthetic - each gallon sold.
Unless I'm mistaken, Yamalube does come in full synthetic variety for jet ski motors only, NOT OUTBOARDs.
So does Yamaha not care about the success of their motors while under warranty ? Specifying a lesser oil per your opinion? A motor that is warranteed to run unlimited (non-commercial) hours for 5 yrs?
You may have noticed I never challenged anyone as to what oil is better than another, only to support the OP's post and to offer advice on consumer protection with respect to warranties.
Tell me this. My HPDIs have a 5 yr unlimited hour Yamaha OEM warranty, now going into the 4th yr.
Why doesn't Yamaha specify a full synthetic like ETEC does to protect their motor ? After all it's their motor while under warranty.
And Yamaha would make more on the higher priced full synthetic - each gallon sold.
Unless I'm mistaken, Yamalube does come in full synthetic variety for jet ski motors only, NOT OUTBOARDs.
So does Yamaha not care about the success of their motors while under warranty ? Specifying a lesser oil per your opinion? A motor that is warranteed to run unlimited (non-commercial) hours for 5 yrs?
RUMBLEFISH
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BobP
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Come back, come back!
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I was mistaken on the PWC jet ski oil, it's also semisynthetic under the Yamalube 2W label, not the 2M label formulated for outboards.
Next time you are at the boat show and the Yamaha factory tech is there.
Ask him (or her) this:
Why doesn't Yamaha specify full synthetic for outboard 2 strokers or offer it as choice , isn't it better for the motor's life and performance ?
You 4 stroke guys can ask the same about Mobile One.
If you have an interest in such things as I do, you may find the response enlightening if not entertaining as well.
----------------------------------------------
I was mistaken on the PWC jet ski oil, it's also semisynthetic under the Yamalube 2W label, not the 2M label formulated for outboards.
Next time you are at the boat show and the Yamaha factory tech is there.
Ask him (or her) this:
Why doesn't Yamaha specify full synthetic for outboard 2 strokers or offer it as choice , isn't it better for the motor's life and performance ?
You 4 stroke guys can ask the same about Mobile One.
If you have an interest in such things as I do, you may find the response enlightening if not entertaining as well.
A
Anonymous
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gw204
Well-Known Member
NA2P said:Pretty simple summary. I buy my maintenance items from the Yamaha dealer I purchased my engines from. Maybe a few bucks more but as long as my motors are under warranty, I know the dealer is going to stand behind them and deal with Yamaha to get them repaired, not that I think I am going to have problems.
That's the best way to go about it. Use the manufacturer's products while the warranty is in place. Once it expires, do what you want.
I run Amsoil and Ringfree in all of my outboards (none of which are under warranty), regardless of manufaturer.