Water in Fuel

[Koby]

Hi Guys,

I have a GW Tournament 225 that I’ve owned since 2015. Last April, on the shakedown cruise, I broke down and got towed in.

Mechanic got the boat and told me it was water in my fuel, like a lot of water. He asked me if I may have mistakenly put water in the fuel fill thinking it was the freshwater fill. I told him no, I’ve never filled the fresh water tanks since I’ve owned it.

He thought he got all of it, spun on a new 10 micron water separator filter and I was good to go for a few weeks. I ran that tank down and put fresh fuel in when it got low.

End of July, engine began running like crap again so back it goes to mechanic. He said he thought it was the last of the water.

This season, shakedown cruise is once again a breakdown cruise. Towed in again for the third time in a calendar year.

Mechanic doesn’t know where water is entering tank, we have replaced sending unit and seals. Fuel fills are good, and stay covered under wrap all winter. Tanks stay full all winter. Deck has no leaks.

At this point, I’ve lost all confidence in the boat. Unless I can definitively solve the issue, I’m ready to list it, with a full disclosure of the issue, at a fire sale price and be done with it. Season is super short in the northeast, too short to be having issues keep the boat at the shop.

Anyone have a similar issue at any point?

 

[PointedRose]

Hi Guys,

I have a GW Tournament 225 that I’ve owned since 2015. Last April, on the shakedown cruise, I broke down and got towed in.

Mechanic got the boat and told me it was water in my fuel, like a lot of water. He asked me if I may have mistakenly put water in the fuel fill thinking it was the freshwater fill. I told him no, I’ve never filled the fresh water tanks since I’ve owned it.

He thought he got all of it, spun on a new 10 micron water separator filter and I was good to go for a few weeks. I ran that tank down and put fresh fuel in when it got low.

End of July, engine began running like crap again so back it goes to mechanic. He said he thought it was the last of the water.

This season, shakedown cruise is once again a breakdown cruise. Towed in again for the third time in a calendar year.

Mechanic doesn’t know where water is entering tank, we have replaced sending unit and seals. Fuel fills are good, and stay covered under wrap all winter. Tanks stay full all winter. Deck has no leaks.

At this point, I’ve lost all confidence in the boat. Unless I can definitively solve the issue, I’m ready to list it, with a full disclosure of the issue, at a fire sale price and be done with it. Season is super short in the northeast, too short to be having issues keep the boat at the shop.

Anyone have a similar issue at any point?

Sorry for the issues, that sounds frustrating.
what else can you share about the engine? year model etc.
just throwing this out there - maybe a different mechanic in your area might be an option before throwing in the towel. Never hurts to have a fresh set of eyes.

 

[DennisG01]

The mechanic... drew the water directly out of the fuel tank? Was the boat positioned properly to allow maximum drainage? Or was it just from the VST tank on the engine (assuming whatever engine you have has one).

What year is the boat? The tank could have pinhole leaks in it if it is an aluminum tank on an older model. Condensation builds up (quite easily) in the tank "coffin" area. Water would collect on the top of the tank.

You mentioned fuel "fills" (plural)... does the boat have more than one tank? I thought that model only had one? What about the o-ring on the fuel cap?

Don't sell. All it takes is figuring out where the water is getting in and fixing it. This isn't like any electrical gremlin - this is a black and white issue.

You could install a fuel/water separator filter with a drainable bowl on it.

 

[Koby]

Sorry for the issues, that sounds frustrating.
what else can you share about the engine? year model etc.
just throwing this out there - maybe a different mechanic in your area might be an option before throwing in the towel. Never hurts to have a fresh set of eyes.

Thanks for the reply. I should have included that, it’s a 1998, with a Yammie OX66 225hp

It may come to that, finding a new mechanic. But I sure don’t want to do that. He’s been good to me and always makes room for me when I need him. But we will see how things go.

 

[Koby]

The mechanic... drew the water directly out of the fuel tank? Was the boat positioned properly to allow maximum drainage? Or was it just from the VST tank on the engine (assuming whatever engine you have has one).

What year is the boat? The tank could have pinhole leaks in it if it is an aluminum tank on an older model. Condensation builds up (quite easily) in the tank "coffin" area. Water would collect on the top of the tank.

You mentioned fuel "fills" (plural)... does the boat have more than one tank? I thought that model only had one? What about the o-ring on the fuel cap?

Don't sell. All it takes is figuring out where the water is getting in and fixing it. This isn't like any electrical gremlin - this is a black and white issue.

You could install a fuel/water separator filter with a drainable bowl on it.

Hi Dennis, I appreciate the reply.

The boat is a ‘98 so it’s possible the tank is junk and water is easily getting in. I’m not sure how he drew the water from the fuel tank, I believe it was a hand pump with siphon hose in the tank maybe?

The boat has two tanks, a Mai tank of about 95 gallons I think and an auxiliary tank of about 50 or so.

I like the idea of the drainable bowl. I’ll mention that to him.

 

[PointedRose]

Hi Dennis, I appreciate the reply.

The boat is a ‘98 so it’s possible the tank is junk and water is easily getting in. I’m not sure how he drew the water from the fuel tank, I believe it was a hand pump with siphon hose in the tank maybe?

The boat has two tanks, a Mai tank of about 95 gallons I think and an auxiliary tank of about 50 or so.

I like the idea of the drainable bowl. I’ll mention that to him.

Get a 6 gal portable for $50 and run it a few times with fresh fuel and see if performance is better. Could be right on it that the fuel tank has some leaks and needs replacement at this point.

 

[Hookup1]

There are a number of posts on this site that discuss the problem. I. have been through it myself. Best answer is to replace the o-ring on your fuel fill and install a Sierra fuel filter with a clear bowl instead of Yamaha filter can. That way you can monitor the water and tap it off before it gets to the engine filter.

If its a start of season thing its likely the o-ring and/or condensation in the tank. This is a long thread but read it through.

Yamaha Water in Engine ....indicator light back on

I have a 335 Freedom with 2 Yamaha 350's. Light came on last month on starboard engine that water was present.. Water was definitely observed and replaced all the filters. After several hours of running same problem came back..Light just came back on.I live Florida where we have a lot of rain...

www.greatgrady.com

 

[Koby]

There are a number of posts on this site that discuss the problem. I. have been through it myself. Best answer is to replace the o-ring on your fuel fill and install a Sierra fuel filter with a clear bowl instead of Yamaha filter can. That way you can monitor the water and tap it off before it gets to the engine filter.

If its a start of season thing its likely the o-ring and/or condensation in the tank. This is a long thread but read it through.

Yamaha Water in Engine ....indicator light back on

I have a 335 Freedom with 2 Yamaha 350's. Light came on last month on starboard engine that water was present.. Water was definitely observed and replaced all the filters. After several hours of running same problem came back..Light just came back on.I live Florida where we have a lot of rain...

www.greatgrady.com

Thanks Hookup, I did try searching before I posted, but kept coming up no results found.

Thanks for the thread link!

 

[DennisG01]

With the size tanks you mention, I would suspect they're Al... is that correct? If so, see what I wrote above and inspect. If this is the case, the problem will only get worse. Remove and repair/replace tanks.

Do you only use one tank?

 

[Hookup1]

Tanks don’t leak from the top. Don’t swap yet although it may be time.

 

[DennisG01]

Tanks don’t leak from the top. Don’t swap yet although it may be time.

His tank(s) aren't leaking fuel out... it's possible they're letting water in. In that case, it can absolutely happen via the top of the tank.

Koby, have you been storing the boat with minimal fuel in it? If so, that's generally not recommended with Al tanks since it can allow condensation to happen INSIDE the tank. Storing full will virtually eliminate it.

 

[Hookup1]

Everyone has an opinion. Mine is that your water in the fuel isn't coming in from the top of the tank. Any leaks in the top of the tank (sending unit, holes big enough to let water in and who knows what else will leak fuel when you put the boat up on plane. Pull the deck hatches and inspect the fuel tanks. See in there is any liquid in the tank compartment. Put a rag on a stick and see if it is fuel or water. In my opinion its either condensation, some fuel phase separation and a fuel fill o-ring leak. While you are in there look at the condition of the coring on the deck.

You have to work the filters hard to try to clean the water out of the tanks. The Sierra filter is a big help. Its likely not much more than a quart but it will seem like it never ends.



If you suspect leaks the only way to know for sure is to pressure test the tank in place. I tested mine in place by pumping them out and using a automotive smoke machine. This also applies some pressure to the tank. All done thru fuel fill. Mine tested good.

This link covers the odyssey of several boat owners working tank issues.

Yamaha Water in Engine ....indicator light back on

I had the gas polished on Thursday. Found 1/2 gallon of water in 40 gallons of fuel. Replaced the gasket on the sending unit and also on gas cap. Everything else checked out.Very little crap on bottom of fuel tanks. I am going to replace the pie covers on deck but O-rings did look ok. Replaced...

www.greatgrady.com

If you are going to go so far as to pull the tanks (especially the forward one) I would replace them.

I will probably do the tanks in a few years but for now they are fine.

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QXQH3ZN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[DennisG01]

Hookup... I'm not stating the possibility of water leaking in through holes in the top IS the reason - simply that, factually, it's a possibility... among the other possibilities that exist. Just trying to give the guy as much info as possible to figure things out.

 

[efx]

do you wash the boat with a hose? Inside deck area and around the hull? I’ve seen water go from the deck and puddle on the tank. Also the deck plates can drip onto the tank.

I suggest running it on a 6 gallon tank and brand new fuel with a brand new hose and fuel bulb. Eliminate the engine issues first. Once you know the engine is running as should on clean fuel, then drain the tank. Get it bone dry. I use a double D battery wand pump from harbor freight. It’s like 12 bucks. Pump all the gas out by pulling the sender and place the pump wand in the opening. Visually inspect the tank and contents with a flashlight. Don’t drop the flashlight into the tank. Once tank is dry, get it pressure tested and rebuild the fuel lines and add a racor clear bowl. Re plumb from tank to engine. New hoses, bulb, and water separator. See photo of new water separator with see thru stainable bowls.

 

[DennisG01]

Forgot to ask earlier... when this issue happens, what's the fuel level in the engine-mounted F/W separator look like? Is the level at the normal spot? All fuel in there or some water? Could also drain the VST and check.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Separate two things.... clearing the motor of water...VST, engine-mounted F/W separator, run it on a small tank
Don't run on your tanks again until you do the next step...or you wasted your time.

next thing...clearing the tank/ figuring out where the water came from.
O-rings/caps on fillers

remove the tank hatches and look in there.
Are tanks full? be careful if tanks is near full when removing sending units.
Look at sending unit gaskets/screw holes. Look down in the hole at the gas..do you see water at the bottom?

I know it sounds complicated or dangerous but... empty the tanks.

You can use a Sierra bowl separator filter when you pump out one tank into cans, or into the other empty tank. then you will see if there was water and you will be removing water so you can use the gas again. (in lawn mowers if you don't have confidence...but those bowl filters really do remove water and you can see it. and drain it out.)


You will probably find the source of water but if not, it could be from the filling station....

 

[Hookup1]

Hi Guys,

I have a GW Tournament 225 that I’ve owned since 2015. Last April, on the shakedown cruise, I broke down and got towed in.

Mechanic got the boat and told me it was water in my fuel, like a lot of water. He asked me if I may have mistakenly put water in the fuel fill thinking it was the freshwater fill. I told him no, I’ve never filled the fresh water tanks since I’ve owned it.

He thought he got all of it, spun on a new 10 micron water separator filter and I was good to go for a few weeks. I ran that tank down and put fresh fuel in when it got low.

End of July, engine began running like crap again so back it goes to mechanic. He said he thought it was the last of the water.

This season, shakedown cruise is once again a breakdown cruise. Towed in again for the third time in a calendar year.

Mechanic doesn’t know where water is entering tank, we have replaced sending unit and seals. Fuel fills are good, and stay covered under wrap all winter. Tanks stay full all winter. Deck has no leaks.

At this point, I’ve lost all confidence in the boat. Unless I can definitively solve the issue, I’m ready to list it, with a full disclosure of the issue, at a fire sale price and be done with it. Season is super short in the northeast, too short to be having issues keep the boat at the shop.

Anyone have a similar issue at any point?

Koby - Don't panic just yet. I bought my 1997 268 Islander in 2007. I run a dual season program - Summer in NJ and 5 or 6 weeks in Florida in the winter. I have been working this 'water in fuel' problem almost every year since I bought the boat. When it happens I work the fuel filter hard and get the water out. After that everything is fine. I have considered everything from condensation, tank leaks, fuel phase separation and other suggestions. Seasick pushed me this year (Jan 2021) to look at my fuel fill o-rings which I never looked at - and sure enough they were gone! I won't know for sure until next year if that was it but I think it was.

This year in Islamorada (boat did not go in the water in NJ for 2020) I had fuel problems after launch. I spent two days with my Sierra filters getting a 1/2 gallon of water out of of one of the tanks. The other was fine. After that everything was great for 5 weeks.

Prior to this (summer 2020) I came close to replacing my tanks but after testing I decided they had some life left in them - no leaks.

When tanks in GW boats get to 20+ years old they are in the replacement zone. But this is because they are corroded on the bedding and leak fuel into the fuel compartment. Fuel tanks are in compartments that are isolated from the boat bilge to prevent you from blowing up the boat.

New o-rings on fuel fill caps. Sierra clear bowl filter. Run it to shake the fuel up. Drain filter. Repeat. Get fuel cleaned up. I'll bet everything will be fine.

 

[Koby]

Koby - Don't panic just yet. I bought my 1997 268 Islander in 2007. I run a dual season program - Summer in NJ and 5 or 6 weeks in Florida in the winter. I have been working this 'water in fuel' problem almost every year since I bought the boat. When it happens I work the fuel filter hard and get the water out. After that everything is fine. I have considered everything from condensation, tank leaks, fuel phase separation and other suggestions. Seasick pushed me this year (Jan 2021) to look at my fuel fill o-rings which I never looked at - and sure enough they were gone! I won't know for sure until next year if that was it but I think it was.

This year in Islamorada (boat did not go in the water in NJ for 2020) I had fuel problems after launch. I spent two days with my Sierra filters getting a 1/2 gallon of water out of of one of the tanks. The other was fine. After that everything was great for 5 weeks.

Prior to this (summer 2020) I came close to replacing my tanks but after testing I decided they had some life left in them - no leaks.

When tanks in GW boats get to 20+ years old they are in the replacement zone. But this is because they are corroded on the bedding and leak fuel into the fuel compartment. Fuel tanks are in compartments that are isolated from the boat bilge to prevent you from blowing up the boat.

New o-rings on fuel fill caps. Sierra clear bowl filter. Run it to shake the fuel up. Drain filter. Repeat. Get fuel cleaned up. I'll bet everything will be fine.

Great info Hookup, thank you.

Trouble is, I can’t get the engine to run more than a few seconds before it dies out. Initially it ran about 20 minutes then died. Then as I tried to restart it would run three or four seconds and cut out again.

 

[seasick]

I am not sure if sufficient test were done to make the water in fuel determination or perhaps more importantly is there still water after the mechanic cleaned out the tank and replaced filters.
So a few easy things to check:
If you have a clear bowl engine mounted fuel filter, it should have a red ring in it that normally sits on the bottom end. If water gets in that ring will float up towards the top of the bowl. That will prove that you have water.
Secondly, after you break down, remove carefully the bilge or motor well water separator filter and pour its contents into a clear glass jar. let that sit for 15 to 30 minutes or so and see what settles out, If gas is clean, you will have one layer of liquid. If you have water, it will settle to the bottom and is quite obvious. If you see 3 layers, you have phase separation and you will have to get the tank pumped out through the sender opening.

Also check what kind of tank vent, you have, combo fill or separate hull mounted vent. If the later, make sure the vent shell is facing aft and is OK (not letting sea water splash into the tank.

If yuou have had the tank drained and filters replaced and still have water, it isn't condensation. You might have seepage into the tank from rain or washdown but if so and you have filled the tank with gas, you will smell gas in the tank compartment since it will leak gas (not a safe situation and I don't recommend doing that as a test)
Gas fumes will last a long time so pop the access plate near the sender of fill connections and smell.

Finally, next time you add gas, if possible try a different gas station. It is possible that you got bad gas.

 

[Hookup1]

Great info Hookup, thank you.

Trouble is, I can’t get the engine to run more than a few seconds before it dies out. Initially it ran about 20 minutes then died. Then as I tried to restart it would run three or four seconds and cut out again.

If it ran for 20 minuets then died you immediately need to pull the filter can off and dump into a somewhat clear plastic quart container (West, Home Depot or takeout). Or a glass jar as seasick said. It will take less than a minute for the fuel to separate from the water.

It's difficult to get all the water out of the tanks at the dock. I found that running the boat and bouncing around gets the water somewhat in suspension where the pickup in the tank gets fuel and a little water up into the filter. Remember the water sits on the bottom of the tank and the fuel floats. And it takes a while to fill the fuel filter up with water - maybe 20 minuets in your case.

Once it stalls you need to get the water out of both the can filter and the one on the engine. I bring a small can of gas with me and a disposal container (orange juice bottle). Dump the filter can into a container, give it a minute, dump only the fuel back in the filter, top off a little with fresh fuel and put it back up. Same with the filter on the engine. Pull cowling off, unscrew filter, dump into container, give it a minute, dump only the fuel back in the filter, top off a little with fresh fuel and put it back up.

I don't really like messing with fuel out on the water but its the only way it works for me. Always have someone with you and a good fire extinguisher handy.

The alternative is to run the boat for a while, shut the motor down, inspect the bowl on the Sierra clear bowl. If you see water tap it off into a container. Start more back up and run around. Re-check again.

It's really important that you deal with the water in the larger filter can BEFORE it gets up into the engine. Otherwise you will stall the engine and have a hard time restarting it.

By the way - where in the world are you?