Water leaks on 330 at the four forward base mounts for hardtop support

[jip40]

I have been fighting reoccurring water leaks in the cabin from the bases of the forward stainless supports for the hardtop & was wondering if it is a common problem or something unique to my boat. It seems to be more of a problem with the two inner supports versus the two outer supports.

I have been using 4200 to seal the contact points and the bolts that secure the bases. The fix only seems to last about six months and then the bases seem to loosen up again. Until I figured out where the water was getting in, I had to keep towels under the starboard cushions of the mid berth as that was where the water seemed to accumulate. Now I have small towels stuffed into the access ports for the bolts - last time down they were quite wet, so it looks like it is time to fix it again.

If any of you have found a long term solution to this problem I certainly would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks in advance.

 

[seasick]

I wouldn't use 4200. You want a sealant, something like Lifeseal which will be more flexible. If there is excessive movement of the frame, you may need to address that first. Have you removed all screws/bolts from the feet and raised the frame to allow sealant to be applied under the flange?
Are there backing plates or just screws. If screws, can they be really tightened? if not, you might be able to go up one size in screw size to get a better bite.
The screws can loosen for several reasons: That are unscrewing (unlikely) or they are pulling out. In addition as mentioned, the adhesive you used will harden over time and due ti vibration and flexing, crack and break down.If you think the screws are unscrewing, use the Lifeseal on the underside if the flange but apply 4200 or 5200 into the screw hole and coat the screw threads before re tightening.
You will also have to clean off the old 4200 if possible from the deck

 

[Ky Grady]

I agree with seasick on the use of Lifeseal. If you're not completely removing bolts and lifting the feet and clean old materials out from underneath you will get leakage in short order. Does not matter on boat manufacturer or boat quality, all hardware at some point on all boats needs to be rebed from time to time to insure watertight integrity.

 

[DennisG01]

From what you've written, it sounds like you're dealing with two things. First, it seems like you're applying the 4200 on the OUTSIDE of everything - meaning, exposed to UV rays. 4200 is not UV stable - so it is likely breaking down. Second, you said "the bases seem to loosen up again". That is a mechanical issue - no amount of sealant can fix that. Address the reason it's loosening up (as mentioned above), then seal it properly and you should be good to go for many, many years. If you want to step up your game, use butyl tape and you'll probably never have to worry about resealing again.

 

[jip40]

I wouldn't use 4200. You want a sealant, something like Lifeseal which will be more flexible. If there is excessive movement of the frame, you may need to address that first. Have you removed all screws/bolts from the feet and raised the frame to allow sealant to be applied under the flange?
Are there backing plates or just screws. If screws, can they be really tightened? if not, you might be able to go up one size in screw size to get a better bite.
The screws can loosen for several reasons: That are unscrewing (unlikely) or they are pulling out. In addition as mentioned, the adhesive you used will harden over time and due ti vibration and flexing, crack and break down.If you think the screws are unscrewing, use the Lifeseal on the underside if the flange but apply 4200 or 5200 into the screw hole and coat the screw threads before re tightening.
You will also have to clean off the old 4200 if possible from the deck

From what you've written, it sounds like you're dealing with two things. First, it seems like you're applying the 4200 on the OUTSIDE of everything - meaning, exposed to UV rays. 4200 is not UV stable - so it is likely breaking down. Second, you said "the bases seem to loosen up again". That is a mechanical issue - no amount of sealant can fix that. Address the reason it's loosening up (as mentioned above), then seal it properly and you should be good to go for many, many years. If you want to step up your game, use butyl tape and you'll probably never have to worry about resealing again.

I agree with seasick on the use of Lifeseal. If you're not completely removing bolts and lifting the feet and clean old materials out from underneath you will get leakage in short order. Does not matter on boat manufacturer or boat quality, all hardware at some point on all boats needs to be rebed from time to time to insure watertight integrity.

Thanks for the input - I guess it would have been wiser to give a little more info as to what I actually did. I did remove the 3 bolts (phillips head with washers and nuts on the under side - there is no backing plate just washers and nuts) from all of the four supports at the same time. I then raised each support in sequence to remove the old 4200 from prior attempt to repair - I scraped the 4200 off & did not use any liquid solution to clean the area. Again, in sequence, I raised each support approx 1/4" to get 4200 under the support and coated each bolt with 4200 before reinstalling the bolts and tightening down. I went back over each support with 4200 to make sure each bolt head and outside of bracket were sealed.

The Phillips head bolts are a flush fit on the support so I don't know if going up a size is feasible. I don't remember if the nuts were locking nuts or just regular type but I will get new bolts, fender washers, locking washers and locking nuts for this attempt to repair. I have not used Lifeseal or butyl tape before - which will give a better seal? If I use the tape do I cover the entire area under the support with the tape -pushing bolts through the tape and trimming around the bracket? Do I need to use acetone or something similar to clean the deck and bottom of bracket before using either Lifeseal or the tape?

 

[DennisG01]

Ah, yes, that info helps. So I think we're just back to one issue... the nuts were either not tightened enough or are loosening. Don't worry about replacing the bolts - just replace the nuts with new nylocs.

With whatever sealant you decide, yes, lift the base plates sufficiently to allow adequate cleaning. A plastic razor blade with help tremendously. Acetone is also fine - it won't hurt the gelcoat or the baseplate. You don't have to get every last bit of old sealant off - just get the majority of it. If you use tape, yes, cover the entire footprint and then also put some around the underside of the screw head. Just peel off any that squishes out.

 

[Ky Grady]

On the same note of nut replacement, yes on the Nylocks and get the biggest fender washer you can find to help distribute the load over more area since you don't have backing plates.

 

[glacierbaze]

Are these bolts going thru solid glass, or is this a cored deck, which might be compressing over time under the pressure of the fastener?

 

[DennisG01]

Are these bolts going thru solid glass, or is this a cored deck, which might be compressing over time under the pressure of the fastener?

Good question... hopefully the answer is such that we don't have to talk about the "possible" next step!

 

[jip40]

Are these bolts going thru solid glass, or is this a cored deck, which might be compressing over time under the pressure of the fastener?

Good question - I don't know! I will have to remove one of the bolts, measure it , replace it & see how much sticks through. Unfortunately, with holidays and travel it will probably be January before I can get to the boat & begin on this project - fortunately the boat is stored indoors.

I will follow up with a recap after I get to do the work - thanks again for the help.

 

[Fishtales]

I'd contact GW cust service via the web. They may have someone or send someone to address.

 

[DennisG01]

Good question - I don't know! I will have to remove one of the bolts, measure it , replace it & see how much sticks through. Unfortunately, with holidays and travel it will probably be January before I can get to the boat & begin on this project - fortunately the boat is stored indoors.

I will follow up with a recap after I get to do the work - thanks again for the help.

What Glacier was getting at is IF it is cored (wood)... the wood could be soft/rotten from leaks. Which could explain why the bolts loosen up. Remove a bolt and inspect the hole to see if there's wood. If you have easy access to the area on the inside of the boat (where the bolts are), a cored section will be easy to spot. For things like this, there would be a small piece of wood glassed in place - it would appear as a bump.

 

[glacierbaze]

Wouldn't have to be wood, other coring materials will compress.

 

[HMBJack]

Do you have a life raft installed on your hard top?

 

[glacierbaze]

Good question - I don't know! I will have to remove one of the bolts, measure it , replace it & see how much sticks through. Unfortunately, with holidays and travel it will probably be January before I can get to the boat & begin on this project - fortunately the boat is stored indoors.

I will follow up with a recap after I get to do the work - thanks again for the help.

All you have to do is call the GW factory, and ask for the tech desk. They will tell you what your deck material is. Occasionally, like if you call at lunch, you will get a call back, but 9 out of 10 times, you will get an answer to you question on the phone.

 

[jip40]

Do you have a life raft installed on your hard top?

No, it's something I've been considering but don't have one at this time

 

[jip40]

All you have to do is call the GW factory, and ask for the tech desk. They will tell you what your deck material is. Occasionally, like if you call at lunch, you will get a call back, but 9 out of 10 times, you will get an answer to you question on the phone.

I have called customer support over the past 8 years at least half a dozen times & the support has always been courteous and helpful - it's definitely the easiest way to find out about the coring - thanks

 

[kirk a]

Glad to have read this, as when I was removing the old cushions at the end of the season, I had noticed that the port side cushion was water damaged. I had not been able to dig into where the water could be coming from, but if memory serves, the hardtop leg is in that general area, and will be on my short list this spring - especially after all new cushions are installed!

 

[seasick]

Hopefully BEFORE new cushions are installed

 

[Fishtales]

Suggest you stick with a valise. The hardtop is not rated for a hard mounted raft per GW.