Water level - scuppers - new engine

[baytripper89]

Hoping to get some input from the group on something that has me a bit worried.

I have a 1989 Overnighter 20. I just re-powered with a 200 hp Suzuki. Upgraded from a 2 stroke Yamaha 175 hp. I did some thorough research before going ahead with the purchase including talking to someone with the same boat and almost the same motor. And yet I’m finding myself concerned about something. The new motor is definitely heavier than the old one. (I knew this going in. ). I just put it in the water the other day and I see that the water level is right up to my scuppers. (If I’m standing in corner dockside I’m getting some water backing in and then flushing out.). No issues when I had it out for a run the other day with just one other person on board. Just wondering if I should be worried about boat dockside when I get a heavy rain or if I should be concerned about heading out with a heavier load of people. Only precaution I could think of was adding some weight up front. I’ve already put two 50 lb sand bags up front and I’m thinking about adding 100 lbs in water ballast.
(I guess the bags I bought are normally used for adjusting your wake for wake boarding.)

Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated. Aside from what I mentioned I can’t think of much to do but wait and see what happens. (Not a great feeling.). Hoping that I’m needlessly worrying but I’d love to hear from anyone who knows anything about what I’m describing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[glacierbaze]

Not uncommon for the scuppers on a GW to be underwater, whether OEM engines, or re-power. Not a good thing, but not the end of the world either. Do a search above for scuppers, check valves, or cockpit draining, and you will get a few nights worth of reading.
Be very careful adding weight forward, you always want water to drain aft. Bow down in a rain storm is a recipe for a swamped boat.

 

[Father's Day]

Try changing out your scuppers i was getting water in the boat when i stood in the stern. New scuppers problem solved

 

[DennisG01]

You said the water level is "right up to my scuppers". That sounds like the level is just below the scuppers with the boat at rest? Leave it alone - don't add any weight up front. You're good.

In reality, the water level compared to the scuppers is not a huge deal - it's more about the water level compared to the cockpit floor. In this case, there is a very minimal drop since the cockpit floor is only slightly above the waterline. As Glacier said, if you start adding weight to the bow, you upset the natural "self draining" ability of the boat. Most Grady's already hold some water in the forward bilge - don't make it worse.

 

[magicalbill]

I have the F200's on my son's (my old) 232 Gulfstream.

The extra weight of the 200's submerged approx 1/2 my scuppers. I owned that boat for 10 years and it didn't matter. With passengers in the stern the water would barely come into the cockpit until they moved forward.

I would hose out the deck and the water would drain into the scuppers, no problem.

I stopped thinking about it...

 

[Mustang65fbk]

When I first bought my boat back in October of 2021, I had a similar issue where I'd stand in the back of the boat either by myself or with another person and the water would flow in like it does with your boat. Ended up getting three brand new rubber scupper flappers from the local Grady White dealer, installed them in less than 10 minutes and no longer have the issue. I think they were $10 a piece x 3, of which you could likely find them a lot cheaper online but there are a bunch of different sizes and I didn't want to potentially have an issue. I figure if I replace them every year for $30 a year and never have a problem then that's very cheap "insurance" for keeping your boat above water.

 

[SkunkBoat]

forget about adding weight forward. That just makes the bow lower not the stern higher.

The most important thing to do is replace the 30+ year old, rotted rubber and rusty wire, hoses.

 

[ROBERTH]

Each boat is different. I had added 2 more Group 31 batteries for a total of 4 in the bilge area when I got the boat and it did lower enough that when I stood in the corner rear, water would come up some in the scuppers.
I added about 50#'s in the bow, plus added Lewmar windlass and 600' rode w/25' chain, so the weight up front did help on mine. I also replaced the thru hulls with SS and the new scuppers with flaps stopped all water coming in. 2 of us can now stand in the corner and no water comes in. Scuppers sit mid water level in calm water.

Edited:
Also forgot to mention in my case I had probably 100 gallons of water in my bracket that eventually I fixed the leaks and has been bone dry. That was another reason she was sitting butt heavy. I moved the 2 house batteries forward to behind the aft berth panel so that weight would be midships.
All these fixes add up and helps to redistribute the weight. My boat rides much better now so I can actually get the bow down into the seas and use all that sharp V to help cut the waves better. Just need to do in steps until you got it right. But, new scuppers might be all you need if they are not in good shape.

 

[Sdfish]

forget about adding weight forward. That just makes the bow lower not the stern higher.

The most important thing to do is replace the 30+ year old, rotted rubber and rusty wire, hoses.

Agree, these hoses can be a bear to remove. I ended up using a dremel to cut thru them.

 

[Norcoastal]

When I first bought my boat back in October of 2021, I had a similar issue where I'd stand in the back of the boat either by myself or with another person and the water would flow in like it does with your boat. Ended up getting three brand new rubber scupper flappers from the local Grady White dealer, installed them in less than 10 minutes and no longer have the issue. I think they were $10 a piece x 3, of which you could likely find them a lot cheaper online but there are a bunch of different sizes and I didn't want to potentially have an issue. I figure if I replace them every year for $30 a year and never have a problem then that's very cheap "insurance" for keeping your boat above water.

I need to do this on my boat. Can you tell me which scuppers you purchased? Mine are below the water line.

 

[Mustang65fbk]

I need to do this on my boat. Can you tell me which scuppers you purchased? Mine are below the water line.

I just bought the rubber scupper flappers from my local GW dealer, I believe they're the Perko brand, and they should know which ones you need.

 

[Norcoastal]

I just bought the rubber scupper flappers from my local GW dealer, I believe they're the Perko brand, and they should know which ones you need.

Ok thanks

 

[baytripper89]

My apologies for delayed response......

I really appreciate all the suggestions and experience shared here. Very helpful.

Removing the extra weight up front as suggested.

Honestly - I've tried to put some of these concerns out of my mind with the hope that all goes well.

All was going well but in last few days I've noticed more water in bilge when I turn on pump before heading out.

Also my auto-bilge kicked on a few times when I was out yesterday. This was something I had an issue with a few years back before I had hose from live well fixed. (water was seeping right into bilge through thru-hull fitting until I had fixed. Not sure why this problem suddenly has re-emerged. Had some heavy rains but I need to investigate if there is any water getting into bilge from some other source.) Always something to worry about it seems. Thanks again.

 

[MashpeeMan]

When I talked to Grady White (as recommended by my dealer when I was considering which motor to go with on a reposer) the GW rep strongly recommended going "absolutely as light as possible" with the replacement motor as this scupper issue is well known on a lot of these older GW's and in some cases (like in the 192) GW made adjustments with things like gas tank placement in later models. In my case my boat is a 2001 192 dual console. I also added on the ping pong ball float scuppers that attach over the transom side of each scupper (even before I repowered since I was getting some water infiltration with my old motor... a 150 Yamaha 2 stroke HPDI). With my new (lighter) motor and those ping pong ball scupper attachments the boat sits high and dry.

 

[baytripper89]

When I talked to Grady White (as recommended by my dealer when I was considering which motor to go with on a reposer) the GW rep strongly recommended going "absolutely as light as possible" with the replacement motor as this scupper issue is well known on a lot of these older GW's and in some cases (like in the 192) GW made adjustments with things like gas tank placement in later models. In my case my boat is a 2001 192 dual console. I also added on the ping pong ball float scuppers that attach over the transom side of each scupper (even before I repowered since I was getting some water infiltration with my old motor... a 150 Yamaha 2 stroke HPDI). With my new (lighter) motor and those ping pong ball scupper attachments the boat sits high and dry.

 

[baytripper89]

Thanks for that information. Thought I had been pretty thorough with my research before re-powering, but now I feel like I could have covered more bases. I've seen my same motor (Suzuki 200) on same or similar boat and it didn't seem to be a problem. The new 4 strokes all seem pretty heavy compared to the older 2 strokes. Guess I will have to find a way to make this work.

 

[MashpeeMan]

Thanks for that information. Thought I had been pretty thorough with my research before re-powering, but now I feel like I could have covered more bases. I've seen my same motor (Suzuki 200) on same or similar boat and it didn't seem to be a problem. The new 4 strokes all seem pretty heavy compared to the older 2 strokes. Guess I will have to find a way to make this work.

I'm sure the Suzuki 200 will be excellent. The trade-off for that extra weight and power is dealing with the scupper issue which I really don't think is too big a deal. Personally I didn't care too much about top end speed (the 140 Tohatsu 4 stroke gets me into the high 30's which is basically where I was with the 150 Yamaha 2 stroke and I get right up on plane easily and stay on a good plane at around 3200 RPM). If the scuppers are underwater when you're anchored/moored/docked I'd definitely add on something like the ping pong ball scuppers. Otherwise I don't think it's much of an issue.

 

[Norcoastal]

I have the same issue on my Seafarer. I just replaced the rubber flaps because over time they curl and let water in. It fixed the problem, but I’m going to get stainless steel ones next time I replace them. And DEFINITELY change the hoses.

 

[family affair]

forget about adding weight forward. That just makes the bow lower not the stern higher.

Not to be argumentative, but this would not be true with his boat. It depends on where the center of mass is. In his case it is near the back of the fish boxes. Ballast up front will have a teeter-totter effect and raise the stern. We experimented with bodies on our 248. One kid up front would definitely lift the stern.
That said, I would definitely not put more than 100 lbs of ballast up front, otherwise you risk stuffing the bow when it is rough.

 

[SkunkBoat]

Not to be argumentative, but this would not be true with his boat. It depends on where the center of mass is. In his case it is near the back of the fish boxes. Ballast up front will have a teeter-totter effect and raise the stern. We experimented with bodies on our 248. One kid up front would definitely lift the stern.
That said, I would definitely not put more than 100 lbs of ballast up front, otherwise you risk stuffing the bow when it is rough.

My point is that you should not add weight to fix having too much weight. Adding weight puts more boat below the waterline.
Shifting or moving weight may accomplish something very useful. Your experiment moved bodies.
yes, there is a pivot point. Yes, in some displacement hulls adding ballast is important. Its not because the vessel is too heavy, its because some area of the vessel is too light.

But in the case of an outboard planing hull where you have too much weight aft, adding extra weight forward is not "the fix".
Eventually you will add temporary weight like gear and fuel and bodies and then you will have too much weight forward.

So using your experiment. Suppose you sent a 100 pound person forward and it raised the scuppers right where you want them.
So you add 100 pounds of sand to the bow. What happens now when a 200 pound person goes up to the bow?