Wax or Polish?
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- Start date
Paste Flletwax by Collonite is great stuff. Do not let it dry completely before removing however. Collonite cleaner then the Fleetwax and you are set. I apply mine with the porter Cable random buffer and remove with a microfiber towel by hand. The collonite metal cleaner is great as well. 8) Autogeek has had the best prices.
There is good information on paint and gelcoat care online, just do a search.
The debate comes in the top coats that are wax-based, carnuba being the most common, and then there are sealers and synthetic polymer type 'polishes'. Since they are not wax based, they call them polish or glaze, which is easily confused with polishing compounds which are used for removing surface blemishes and oxidation. There are a lot of names and terminology and it all gets a bit confusing.
It's hard to beat a machine compounded finish. You can get a better shine in a fraction of the time of doing it by hand. The Colonite products seem to be popular with these east coast boaters, but 3M and McGuires has been producing these types of finishing products to the marine and automotive industries for years. My nod has always been to 3M, having gained experience with their products for automotive paints and refinishing.
There are various grades or grits of compounding products, depending on the level of surface defect you're dealing with. That's one of the reasons I like 3M, they have the full range, others don't. If there are surface scratches they can be wet-sanded with 1000 grit paper and polished with a compound that is designed to polish 1000-grit scratches. That's one of the ways they rate them, by what grit they will bring to a shine. For really aggressive compounding, a second polishing step is required with a soft wheel and a haze or swirl-mark remover. Some compunds are less aggressive, some more. Finnesse-It, Imperial Finishing Compund, and their range of rubbing compounds products fill out the array from mild to aggressive material removal. If the the surface blemish is mild you use a mild compound, if you are polishing out a wet-sanded surface you need something more aggressive. You match the polishing compound to the job at hand. And the good compounds are molecularly designed to break down as you polish, so they are aggressive as you start, and then break down into a finer polishing compound which brings out the shine.
Once you get your surace free from defects and polished to a high gloss you then need to add the surface protection. In my experience a polymer sealer will hold up much better in a marine environment, for aircraft, and where you only apply wax once or twice a year. Waxes need to be recoated every 3 months, and although Carnuba is a hard surface wax it is still a 'natural' occuring compound and breaks down faster than a chemically engineered product like a synthetic resin. I found a polymer sealer from Top of the Line Detailing called TERMINATOR that is a mild haze remover and polymer sealer that you use with a soft wool wheel. It finishes the polishing job you started by compounding, and seals the paint. This is a product they will sell you for $400 when you buy a new car, known as 'paint sealer'. It's is a good product and lasts a long time. It's a synthetic resin and sets up hard over your paint/gelcoat, creating a barrier to chemical and weather attack. And finally, apply a wax, carnuba still is the king for shine, or a synthetic resin wax is also applicable. I still likepure carnuba, it shines like crazy. 3M still recommends a carnuba wax for the top coat. and yes, this is a 3-part process, the final wax application is done by hand. Most marine-label 'waxes' are a synthetic or combination with some carnuba content.
I'm not sure where the colonite products fall into this chemical make up, the label and product data will tell you. Most guys don't get this far into what goes into the various procucts - if they use it and it works they like it. And if you apply a decent product regularly the finish surface never gets bad enough to warrant stripping it. But most guys can't keep up with that over the years so sooner or later they're faced with doing a proper surface restoration. Some guys toil at it blindly, some have good success and some get marginal success. But some professional help is advised if you're new at it. And yes, a good machine polisher is an investment, but something that can be used over and over for many years. Inexpensive polishers are around a hundred, like WEN, and really good ones like Dewalt, Milwaukie(sp) and Porter-Cable can run over two hundred. The orbital wax applier polisher machines are a complete waste of money, I can do a better job by hand with a rag. The difference between a polisher and a grinder is speed - grinders turn at 7-10,000rpm, a polisher is around 2500rpm. I'm not even going to get into the modern sponge polishing wheels, it's all the rage now and I'm still in the dark ages using my fine and course wool wheels. I have seen the sponges at work though, and they are amazing. I have one of those Mothers Balls for polishing aluminum wheels and they are the shiznit.
All of the cheap waxes and polishes contain silicone. It makes a dull surface shine but doesn't 'restore' the surface finish. And they breakdown and go dull again fairly quickly. The cheap automotive, RV, and marine products with more obscure names are junk. Stick with the top brands and do the job right and you'll have a like-new looking finish. And yes, the top products cost more too.
Okay, enough for today... 8)
The debate comes in the top coats that are wax-based, carnuba being the most common, and then there are sealers and synthetic polymer type 'polishes'. Since they are not wax based, they call them polish or glaze, which is easily confused with polishing compounds which are used for removing surface blemishes and oxidation. There are a lot of names and terminology and it all gets a bit confusing.
It's hard to beat a machine compounded finish. You can get a better shine in a fraction of the time of doing it by hand. The Colonite products seem to be popular with these east coast boaters, but 3M and McGuires has been producing these types of finishing products to the marine and automotive industries for years. My nod has always been to 3M, having gained experience with their products for automotive paints and refinishing.
There are various grades or grits of compounding products, depending on the level of surface defect you're dealing with. That's one of the reasons I like 3M, they have the full range, others don't. If there are surface scratches they can be wet-sanded with 1000 grit paper and polished with a compound that is designed to polish 1000-grit scratches. That's one of the ways they rate them, by what grit they will bring to a shine. For really aggressive compounding, a second polishing step is required with a soft wheel and a haze or swirl-mark remover. Some compunds are less aggressive, some more. Finnesse-It, Imperial Finishing Compund, and their range of rubbing compounds products fill out the array from mild to aggressive material removal. If the the surface blemish is mild you use a mild compound, if you are polishing out a wet-sanded surface you need something more aggressive. You match the polishing compound to the job at hand. And the good compounds are molecularly designed to break down as you polish, so they are aggressive as you start, and then break down into a finer polishing compound which brings out the shine.
Once you get your surace free from defects and polished to a high gloss you then need to add the surface protection. In my experience a polymer sealer will hold up much better in a marine environment, for aircraft, and where you only apply wax once or twice a year. Waxes need to be recoated every 3 months, and although Carnuba is a hard surface wax it is still a 'natural' occuring compound and breaks down faster than a chemically engineered product like a synthetic resin. I found a polymer sealer from Top of the Line Detailing called TERMINATOR that is a mild haze remover and polymer sealer that you use with a soft wool wheel. It finishes the polishing job you started by compounding, and seals the paint. This is a product they will sell you for $400 when you buy a new car, known as 'paint sealer'. It's is a good product and lasts a long time. It's a synthetic resin and sets up hard over your paint/gelcoat, creating a barrier to chemical and weather attack. And finally, apply a wax, carnuba still is the king for shine, or a synthetic resin wax is also applicable. I still likepure carnuba, it shines like crazy. 3M still recommends a carnuba wax for the top coat. and yes, this is a 3-part process, the final wax application is done by hand. Most marine-label 'waxes' are a synthetic or combination with some carnuba content.
I'm not sure where the colonite products fall into this chemical make up, the label and product data will tell you. Most guys don't get this far into what goes into the various procucts - if they use it and it works they like it. And if you apply a decent product regularly the finish surface never gets bad enough to warrant stripping it. But most guys can't keep up with that over the years so sooner or later they're faced with doing a proper surface restoration. Some guys toil at it blindly, some have good success and some get marginal success. But some professional help is advised if you're new at it. And yes, a good machine polisher is an investment, but something that can be used over and over for many years. Inexpensive polishers are around a hundred, like WEN, and really good ones like Dewalt, Milwaukie(sp) and Porter-Cable can run over two hundred. The orbital wax applier polisher machines are a complete waste of money, I can do a better job by hand with a rag. The difference between a polisher and a grinder is speed - grinders turn at 7-10,000rpm, a polisher is around 2500rpm. I'm not even going to get into the modern sponge polishing wheels, it's all the rage now and I'm still in the dark ages using my fine and course wool wheels. I have seen the sponges at work though, and they are amazing. I have one of those Mothers Balls for polishing aluminum wheels and they are the shiznit.
All of the cheap waxes and polishes contain silicone. It makes a dull surface shine but doesn't 'restore' the surface finish. And they breakdown and go dull again fairly quickly. The cheap automotive, RV, and marine products with more obscure names are junk. Stick with the top brands and do the job right and you'll have a like-new looking finish. And yes, the top products cost more too.
Okay, enough for today... 8)
If you choose to go the Starbrite route, West Marine is having a sale on Starbrite products. The polish is bogo for 38.99. That is the quart size. Also on sale is starbrite deck cleaner also bogo for 9.99 a quart. I surf the internet and then price match with WM. Its worth effort given their pricing.
CJbrown,
Good write up, thanks for the info. One question, is "Shiznit" good or bad? I'm not familiar with it, that must be a CA. term.
Good write up, thanks for the info. One question, is "Shiznit" good or bad? I'm not familiar with it, that must be a CA. term.
enfish
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They have a circular out. If you go in store they probably have it. I have the circular at my office. If you p.m. I can send you a pdf copy tomorrow.
OMG, it must be one of those fun urban words...I don't even think about it.
From the Urban Dictionary online:
1.something really cool.2.used to express joy in something/someone.3.to express that something is really or very good.
1. Yo man this rollercoaster in the shiznit!
2. Dang i can't believe you stood up to that bully! you're the shiznit!
3. This pizza is the shiznit.
From the Urban Dictionary online:
1.something really cool.2.used to express joy in something/someone.3.to express that something is really or very good.
1. Yo man this rollercoaster in the shiznit!
2. Dang i can't believe you stood up to that bully! you're the shiznit!
3. This pizza is the shiznit.
The forum is great because it is filled with great folks willing to help....
Hey all the Collinite users...how far does a container of that stuff go? I am a Meguaires guy, but I am willing to give the collinite a try. I will be near a west marine this week and will pick up the collinite while there. I have a 228, I am assuming one bottle or can of it will be more than enough to wax the boat - bottomside and the waxable topside areas too?
Thanks
Hey all the Collinite users...how far does a container of that stuff go? I am a Meguaires guy, but I am willing to give the collinite a try. I will be near a west marine this week and will pick up the collinite while there. I have a 228, I am assuming one bottle or can of it will be more than enough to wax the boat - bottomside and the waxable topside areas too?
Thanks
Any body going to WM this week, on March 17 they are having a gold card members only sale. In addition to sales prices, you also get $20 off on a purchase of $100 for regular price stuff. FYI.
This month's Boating Magazine. An article on care and restoation of fiberglass finish.
http://www.boatingmag.com/maintenance/boat-cleaning-and-care/restoring-your-boat’s-shine
http://www.boatingmag.com/maintenance/boat-cleaning-and-care/restoring-your-boat’s-shine
How Far Does Collinites go?
Smoky Mountain - I got three hull waxings out of one bottle - from the gunwales to the edge of the bottome paint. Stay tuned i'll get you a website that has it really cheap - forget West Marine. $$$$$$$$!!!!!
SmokyMtnGrady said:
Smoky Mountain - I got three hull waxings out of one bottle - from the gunwales to the edge of the bottome paint. Stay tuned i'll get you a website that has it really cheap - forget West Marine. $$$$$$$$!!!!!
Site for cheap (But Good) Collinites
Best Collinite prices I've seen on the net. NO shipping charges and fast turnaround on your order. They're from PA, so you know they're good.
www.macteconline.com
Best Collinite prices I've seen on the net. NO shipping charges and fast turnaround on your order. They're from PA, so you know they're good.
www.macteconline.com